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  1. #1
    RGA
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    Audio systems are designed to replay what is on the source disc. And if the material is up for it then a drum kit or a piano should very closely resemble a drum kit or a piano.

    As for soundstage - I have never understood what the driving appeal of it is and why so many glob onto soundstage and imaging. Personally if I notice it it is probably doing a whole bunch of things wrong someplace else. As areviewer I listen for it but as a music listener I want the whole experience. Usually, if my ear is being drawn to one perameter such as soundstaging and imaging it probably means it's tonally off or it lacks credible dynamics.

    Lawrence Borden - an audiophile enamored with soundstaging write a nice article on why it's probably not the best thing to be looking for and it mirrors what you noticed about listening live. http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=398

  2. #2
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    As for soundstage - I have never understood what the driving appeal of it is and why so many glob onto soundstage and imaging.
    The intellectual aspect of listening should never surpass the emotional and spiritual side. That said, imaging on some recordings can give you that sense that you're in a room with the musicians, rather than an album perfectly panned from center.

  3. #3
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    The intellectual aspect of listening should never surpass the emotional and spiritual side. That said, imaging on some recordings can give you that sense that you're in a room with the musicians, rather than an album perfectly panned from center.
    I agree.I have Canton speakers and these things give you the best impression that the musicians are right there in front of me playing. Canton recommends that you don't toe the speakers in, because they design them to face forward. Canton speakers are not warm, nor are they bright, My Paradigms are brighter. Cantons are not a boring speaker...they have a way of drawing you into the music... they have this mid-range thing with tons of detail that just throw music all over... I have them about 8-9ft apart on teh front wall and all the gear on the side wall. There is nothing between the two speakers the sound stage is wide an deep, and its sweet with tones of emotion.
    Last edited by frenchmon; 04-06-2010 at 02:35 PM.
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  4. #4
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Audio systems are designed to replay what is on the source disc. And if the material is up for it then a drum kit or a piano should very closely resemble a drum kit or a piano.

    As for soundstage - I have never understood what the driving appeal of it is and why so many glob onto soundstage and imaging. Personally if I notice it it is probably doing a whole bunch of things wrong someplace else. As areviewer I listen for it but as a music listener I want the whole experience. Usually, if my ear is being drawn to one perameter such as soundstaging and imaging it probably means it's tonally off or it lacks credible dynamics.
    Lawrence Borden - an audiophile enamored with soundstaging write a nice article on why it's probably not the best thing to be looking for and it mirrors what you noticed about listening live. http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=398
    That's actually my belief as well: truly accurate systems should do "nothing special" i.e. I should not think "wow that midrange is so silky" or "listen to that bass extension" or "I can pick out the exact height and position of every individual in the choir"... I should just hear music....

  5. #5
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    I agree with Richard's assessment. What you are hearing using an audio system is a reproduction coming from the microphone, and the better a signal chain can do it, the more accurate and faithful to the RECORDING it will sound. What we hear in a live setting is binaural, not stereo, not mulitchannel. Multichannel just gets us closer to the live experience with the ability to recreate immersion, and reproduce audio from more points in space. The recording is only a capture from specific perspectives, not an all immersing experience like we get live(except outdoors away from walls).

    A good audio chain can make a performer SEEM like they are in the room, and that is what you are looking for with HiFi. With live sound, you are in the room with the performer, and the ear/brain mechanism can easily figure that out. It has to be fooled with a audio recording, and that requires a system to have a high degree of accuracy in relation to the recording reproduction. As far as great imaging, if a recording has it(remember it is a recording with microphones positioned in space), then the audio chain should have enough resolution to reveal it, that is one of the basic tenets of audio reproduction, not live listening.

    There are times when you do get some level of pinpoint imaging in live music. Try listening to a outdoor concert in the nearfield, especially acoustical music.
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  6. #6
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
    I agree with Richard's assessment. What you are hearing using an audio system is a reproduction coming from the microphone, and the better a signal chain can do it, the more accurate and faithful to the RECORDING it will sound. What we hear in a live setting is binaural, not stereo, not mulitchannel. Multichannel just gets us closer to the live experience with the ability to recreate immersion, and reproduce audio from more points in space. The recording is only a capture from specific perspectives, not an all immersing experience like we get live(except outdoors away from walls).

    A good audio chain can make a performer SEEM like they are in the room, and that is what you are looking for with HiFi. With live sound, you are in the room with the performer, and the ear/brain mechanism can easily figure that out. It has to be fooled with a audio recording, and that requires a system to have a high degree of accuracy in relation to the recording reproduction. As far as great imaging, if a recording has it(remember it is a recording with microphones positioned in space), then the audio chain should have enough resolution to reveal it, that is one of the basic tenets of audio reproduction, not live listening.

    There are times when you do get some level of pinpoint imaging in live music. Try listening to a outdoor concert in the nearfield, especially acoustical music.
    So then is the goal really "to extract every bit of information in the recording", rather than to recreate the live experience?

  7. #7
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani
    So then is the goal really "to extract every bit of information in the recording", rather than to recreate the live experience?
    Yes. This is why people go to such crazy lengths with IC's, PS conditioning and speaker cables to try and squeeze every last audible sound out of the recording.

  8. #8
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    Yes. This is why people go to such crazy lengths with IC's, PS conditioning and speaker cables to try and squeeze every last audible sound out of the recording.
    That's what I've suspected... That our goal has long changed (or in some cases never was) from recreating the live event to being more concerned with HiFi terms created by our recording techniques...

    Note: I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with that, as all that really matters is what you enjoy listening to.... But since we hear the claim of 'truth to the live event' so often touted by manufacturers, reviewers and audiophiles in general, it seems misleading to pretend that recreating the live event is always the goal...

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