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  1. #1
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    At least be honest

    Dear New Moderator:

    There is a big difference between implementing a new policy to enforce "civiility" and a policy that censors discussion toward a particular bias. Please stop pretending that the implementation of your beliefs regarding scientific testing and rational discussion is some kind of attempt to protect those who choose to post here.

    You are simply bending logic and reality when you pretend that these forums are for discussion of what you want to discuss under the rules that promote your biases. These forums state (or at least used to) that they are for people seeking answers to technical (and other) questions. How is it you get to decide they are for mindless "hobby" discussions?

    A moderator rightfully can make an effort to reduce flaming, name calling, and vitriol. But when you direct content based on your biases you have stepped over the line and revealed your real agenda.

    What is wrong with open discussion where people are contradicted on the basis of facts, logic, and scientific evidence? This "hobby" is in desperate need of these things and you have seemingly ruined one of the all-to-few places where people could at least get alternate opinions if not always accurate information.

    Segregation by creating a "technical geek" forum is not a fair and proper solution. Why not create a forum for unsupported subjective opinions? The latter is what people, including newbies, will get now that you have "fixed" this forum.

  2. #2
    RGA
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    Did I miss something - no one is allowed to discuss DBT's anymore?

    The DBT is probably banned as all it starts is argumentative fighting with nobody changing sides and the same arguements over and over again.

    Perhaps AR should have a DBT safe zone. So the people who do think amps sound different and heard your argument 50,000 times can go there to discuss with other people their subjective take on componants. I have gone to University studied DBT's got an A in the Psych courses thank you very much so no need to preach to me.

    Then a DBT safe forum you can discuss to your heart's content if it is truly newvbies you want to help.

    I agree that new folks need to be presented fully the pro DBT arguement. So a dedicated warning thread should remain at the top of the forum which has a complete well articulated pro DBT essay so that new readers can read your arguement in full. Then mate it's Caveat Emptor.

    Well for those of you who do wish to argue about DBT's you can go to this forum and "help" save people from themselves. You are restricted from DBT debate in the cable forum there however but it's better than nothing. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/bbs.html

  3. #3
    RGA
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    Oops didn't see that we already have that kind of forum here. So what's the problem?

  4. #4
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    The whole concept of...

    ...segregating both sides of the coin, that's what's wrong. How many people are going to venture to the "Audio Lab" for the counterpoint? Particularly when part of management's argument is that the whole sub/obj debate "scares off" newbies...Since most don't know $h!t fron Shine-ola, who's gonna' voluntarily go to "THE LAB"? OOOO-spooooky!

    Like weight loss lotions and potions...if you can convince people to take a pill for "results", who's gonna' exercise?

    jimHJJ(...It's catch-22, circular twaddle...)

  5. #5
    RGA
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    Well - the best thing to do is to start your own forum. They could put a post at the top that says "Before you buy any audio gear consider the following."

    As I say once you have told me about the DBT methodolgy and provided all the engineering papers(not to be confused with real science) then it is my choice to be saved by that version of science or not. I don't like Religious groups badgering me every post to convert. Thanks I can read about the Bible if I choose to or I can live in ignorance - Or I can read it and ignore it.

    So Compile the Pro DBT account and the other side can compile their rationale for discounting its application. Then we can all refer newbies to READ that document BEFORE proceeding.

    So for example someone comes on and says "Hi I am thinking about buying a Monster interconnect cable because the Future shop guy told me it would make a bigger improvement than buying new speakers"(BTW I have heard this myself).

    So one guy will come on and say "well I agree with your salesman for the following reasons - It blows it away yadda yadda."

    The opposing side comes on and says - "Before making any decision about this you should note that there is strong opposition to what your salesman has stated. Please read the following article" Then post the link.

    That person then decides Him/herself which they want to believe just like Religion you made your case and that should be the end of it.

  6. #6
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    As long as we get...

    ...this type of wonderfully non-biased sentiment, I'm sure all will be just fine and dandy:

    "...provided all the engineering papers(not to be confused with real science) then it is my choice to be saved by that version of science..."

    jimHJJ(...yeah, right...)

  7. #7
    Suspended 3-LockBox's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, this has been a long time coming.

    I used post here off and on, two or three years ago, but got tired of the bickering. I understand exactly where the moderator is coming from, though I wished it it didn't have to come to this. But more often then not, a person would come onto this board, post a question, and return later to read the responses, only to find a half-page worth of flame wars by the regulars. Its been arguement for argument's sake, and the cause of information was the always the first casualty. Maybe there is a message board just for those who like to try out their new insults on others. But this is a corporate site, like it or not. And I'm amazed they kept this particular forum running all this time.

    Maybe the moderator should simply give the regulars here a choice, like the 'quick post' alternative. They could have 'direct reply' and the 'agendized response'. Or maybe the moderator could simply flag a response with an icon warning the reader of 'possible flamming response' or 'flame war imminent'. Or any poster answering a question could be limited to one response per thread. This would give regulars the excuse to beat their chests, but they would be prevented from responding to another respondant.

    Maybe there could be a "lets take this outside, drop the gloves and throw down" forum. A post that contains differing points of veiw would be flagged and a link would direct other lurkers to go and watch the fight.

  8. #8
    AR Newbie Registered Member Eyespy's Avatar
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    In my absence, did AR become Audio Asylum???? WTF?
    ========================
    My Audio and Home Theater Website
    ========================

    ========================
    The Audio Myths Website
    ========================

  9. #9
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyespy
    In my absence, did AR become Audio Asylum???? WTF?
    It seems to be heading in that general direction, but time will tell. I think they are trying to find a happy medium but, who knows? It seems the pendelum tends to swing a little erraticaly

  10. #10
    Forum Regular FLZapped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyespy
    In my absence, did AR become Audio Asylum???? WTF?

    Seems so and there is already a long list of regulars who have either decided to leave as a result, or have been banned. WmAx the latest.....

    Welcome back, I think. You'll find the moderation leaves a Jon Risch aftertaste.

    You'll find many of the old gang over at audioholics now.

    -Bruce

  11. #11
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyespy
    In my absence, did AR become Audio Asylum???? WTF?
    After viewing your website, I see you disregard the top two "audio myths".

    rw

  12. #12
    Forum Regular FLZapped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    After viewing your website, I see you disregard the top two "audio myths".

    rw
    Really? Where does he ever say that bi-wiring makes an audible difference?

    Where does he ever say that silver makes an audible difference compared to copper?

    Maybe you should get your facts straight before making such gross assumptions.

    -Bruce

  13. #13
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLZapped
    Really? Where does he ever say that bi-wiring makes an audible difference?

    Where does he ever say that silver makes an audible difference compared to copper?

    Maybe you should get your facts straight before making such gross assumptions.

    -Bruce
    Knee jerking again, Bruce? First, let's begin with a counting lesson. Which are the top two items in this list?

    --Biwiring
    --Expensive speaker wire of similar gauge and length, but dissimilar retail cost
    --Silver vs. copper speaker wire


    I confess that I did make an assumption. I assume that anyone who uses a bi-wired pair of $3300 speaker cables somehow does endorse the notion of using biwiring and "expensive" wires. The article recommended buying wire from Home Depot that in a comparable 10' length would run $6. Silly me.

    rw

  14. #14
    Forum Regular FLZapped's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Knee jerking again, Bruce? First, let's begin with a counting lesson. Which are the top two items in this list?

    --Biwiring
    --Expensive speaker wire of similar gauge and length, but dissimilar retail cost
    --Silver vs. copper speaker wire


    I confess that I did make an assumption. I assume that anyone who uses a bi-wired pair of $3300 speaker cables somehow does endorse the notion of using biwiring and "expensive" wires. The article recommended buying wire from Home Depot that in a comparable 10' length would run $6. Silly me.

    rw
    So how could it be knee jerking if you are admitting you were incorrect? hmmmmmm......

    So whilst I'm knee jerking along, allow me to indulge some salt in the wound:


    Allowances are to made for the clear distinction between:

    A) a personal preference, which is non-testable and immune from a need for substantiation, and which can exist for any number of reasons, and:

    B) testable claims, such as those for audible differences, which warrant reliable, valid, and repeatable supportive evidence before they can be accepted as established factually.


    Also found on Eyespy's website below the list of myths.....

    Of course, you don't even know how he aquired them. He could have bought them for visual appeal. They could have been a gift. Or he could have won them on a bet from one of his audiophile buddies who claimed he could hear the difference.....*shurg*

    Perhaps it would have been just as easy to ask him.

    -Bruce
    (Make that lots and lots of salt)

  15. #15
    Forum Regular gonefishin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    After viewing your website, I see you disregard the top two "audio myths".

    rw

    uh oh


    Wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



    here we go again. Although, it has been quite a while.


    Hi eye
    __________________
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    enjoy the music!

  16. #16
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLZapped
    Perhaps it would have been just as easy to ask him. :rolleyes
    I did. Why you decided to posture speculatively on his behalf is a mystery.

    rw

  17. #17
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonefishin
    uh oh
    I find it most interesting for one to reference a website that promotes the use of $6 cables, yet the preference of that individual is to use ones 500 times more expensive than that. Inquiring minds want to know.

    rw

  18. #18
    Forum Regular FLZapped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    I did. Why you decided to posture speculatively on his behalf is a mystery.

    rw
    You have a funny way of asking questions:

    After viewing your website, I see you disregard the top two "audio myths".

    No mystery.You made an assumption by "viewing" his site. Simply reading it showed you were incorrect.

    Speculation? As to why he has them, maybe. Then again, maybe I know something you don't.

    -Bruce
    Last edited by FLZapped; 09-11-2004 at 01:54 PM.

  19. #19
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLZapped
    Simply reading it showed you were incorrect.
    Ok, you got me. Incorrect about what?

    His website describes details of his system including biwired Nordost SPM cables. Further, there is a link to "Audio Myths" whose recommendations are contrary to the use of those biwired expensive cables.

    rw

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