Just a selfish post.

[daviethek]

Refreshing. Lots of people remembering back to what they used to like and it is all about the music and not so much about the equipment. It was about what we could afford. People are happier with what they have when they know they are at their spending limit.

As long as we are on the analysts couch, I played Live at the Filmore 238 times in 1976. Mixed in with it was some Miles and Hubert Laws. I was thrilled with my big fat extremely used Marantz amp and AR speakers. I used to visit the High-end store and hear Dave Grusin and Mac gear with salesmen touting the virtues of such. Thats when I learned about guys who were way more interested in gear than music. This post has helped me to re-focus a bit.

[emaidel]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying good music, and enjoying the sound of a good system at the same time. I'm reminded by this thread of the tale of the audiophile who has about $30,000 invested in his system, but only owns 3 CD's and 4 records.

I think my system sounds terrific (as does anyone who'se heard it), and I own about 1,500 CD's and 1,000 LP's. Yes, I listen to the sound of the system itself when I'm tinkering with this or that, but above all else, I listen to the music. If I can hear instruments I've never heard before when I change something (a loudspeaker; a preamplifier; a cable; etc.) then, so much the better for musical enjoyment.

I sing in my church choir, and we did an exceptionally dififcult piece by Vaughan Williams recently. I bought a CD of that piece, brought the sheet music home with me, and practiced many times before we performed the piece last Sunday. If it weren't for the quality of my system, I would never even have heard the particular bass notes I needed to work on. That speaks volumes about how a quality system can aid in the enjoyment of music.

Good thread!

[Grandpaw]

I don't think there is any question or debate that a higher end system will make the music sound better. The question in my mind is, can I enjoy listening to music and it NOT be on a high end system and for me the answer is YES.

For the folks that say a high end system is a must I would just like ask this question..... At what price level does the system need to be at to enjoy the music properly? No matter how much is spent on a system there is always one out there that is more expensive. So where and how is the line drawn so you know that you can properly enjoy the music?

I have thousands in my system and enjoy listening to music on it. There again my wife can enjoy listening to the same music on a $29.95 boom box and be perfectly happy. Somehow as bad as I hate to admit it she is getting a lot more bang for the buck than I am, so which one of us is the smarter listener? Jeff

I was just thinking about this and scanning though my memory banks and far back as I can remember I can remember people really getting into music and singing along with a transistor radio or singing along with the car radio and really getting into and enjoying the music. And for the life of me I just don't remember seeing anyone enjoying listening to a high end stereo enough to sing along with the songs being played on it.... Why is that I wonder?

[emaidel]

.

At what price level does the system need to be at to enjoy the music properly?

That's a question that likely will never be answered. There are many who hear systems worth hundreds, and then others worth thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars, and don't hear any differences. To them, "as long as it works" seems to be sufficient.

To me, after having invested over $10K in mine, I think I've spent the money wisely, but know that there are many, many others out there that sound better. Fortunately, I can ask the following question:

"How many systems have you heard that sound better than yours?"

My answer to that, is, "None." I know they're out there. I just haven't had the opportunity to hear one. Perhaps I'm lucky in that respect...

[nightflier]

Worf,

I completely agree about live music. If you pay good money for it, live music should be near perfect - because you're only hearing it once. At home I can try different things and repeat the perfomance as many times as I like, but live music is a one-time thing.

I recently attended a performance at Orange County's new Segerstrom hall, which is supposed to have world-class sonics. While the musicians played as well as could be expected, the whole experience was ruined because the organizers decided to load the stage with speakers and amplify the performance. Only in the last two minutes of the finale, did one of the soloists have the bright idea to step away from the mic - the sound of her voice in that silent hall was breathtaking - no one even dared to clear a throat. But the previous two hours of the performance, that I paid a fair amount for by the way, were ruined.

So while I understand the need to enjoy music for music's sake, there are a million ways to make that music grating and unlistenable. I grew up w/o tv (can you believe that?), but there was always classical music playing. While my parents didn't have a lot of money, I learned to listen for details in the music, the tempo, the style between seemingly different performances. Not being able to hear this because of shoddy equipment is problematic for me.

Yes, I'm very critical about my sound system, but just like my father, I'm not made of money. I have friends that have systems that can make a war-hardened marine cry (literally, I've seen it), but mine is still impressive to my ears. Luckily we trade stuff all the time and so I do get to hear pricier stuff. But most of the time, the synergy doesn't match what I've set up for myself and what I have grown accustomed to in my own home. Most of my equipment was bought used or traded and if there's a tweak, plug, option, or fix that didn't cost me a pint of blood, I've tried it. The point is that upgrade-itis doesn't always have to be expensive.

I highly recommend trading equipment with friends and participating in local audio clubs. I would never have had the opportunity to try so many types of equipment otherwise. Most people don't get the opportunity to audition different types of gear, so they end up buying things that are less than ideal for them, thus leading to expensive upgrades far too often. So many times, the much more expensive piece just wasn't for me. I also applaud manufacturers like magnepan that will honor upgrades and trade-ins. It's an expense for them, but helps build brand-loyalty and allows us cheap-skates to hear more gear.

Anyhow, music is the goal, but the fussing over how things sound is part of the fun in this hobby. Sorry if I'm with the minority of people detracting from the original post, but it isn't a black-n-white choice.

[jrhymeammo]

Well, I bought a pair of new speakers. I just simply needed much more efficient pair. Plus I ended up pocketing $900.

[Worf101]

Worf,

I have friends that have systems that can make a war-hardened marine cry (literally, I've seen it), but mine is still impressive to my ears..

Man, that's priceless. Might even become my new sig. Thanks for the love. I agree totally. I've guys here I could trade with but it's too much work. When you lug gear on the weekends to make money, the last thing you wanna do the rest of the week is lug gear for fun. Interesting proposition though... I'll look into it.

Da Worfster

[nightflier]

Yes he is a former Marine who listens to modern classical (a lot of Russian / Eastern Euro stuff I don't know too well). He's a history buff so we have lots to talk about, but I've never asked about the Marine thing, he just mentioned it in passing. He has a pair of Cremonas (beautiful speakers, by the way) driven by a Pass amp, I think it is the 250, that is no less than 3 feet deep... and ahem, he doesn't consider any of my gear too impressive.

He's a bit hard of hearing, so he plays his system rather loud, enough to make you want to leave the room. One day we were listening to something with a thoundering choral section and he started to tear up. Maybe it reminded him of something, I dunno.

[jt1stcav]

That's when I know I've reached musical nirvana...when the music I'm listening to brings a tear of joy to my eyes. And that happened while driving my car listening to a piece of music on NPR radio on my cheesey OEM car radio! I later bought the CD and played it through my high-end home audio system and I almost cried like a baby. Obviously, the better sounding system helps in achieving this effect on me, but in the end it's still all about the music.

Great thread...

[jrhymeammo]

Since then I've acquired alot more gears. Does it make me a hypocrit? Still enjoying da hell outta my music.

Alot of times hanging out with frineds talking about music over music is better than sitting in a dark room listening to Florian's system(Of course I wouldnt know, but I'm almost positive). I need a girlfriend who loves good music.... Yeah, like that ever gonna happen. Does your lover enjoy music as well?


btw, this wasnt a shot as you Flo.

[SlumpBuster]

Since then I've acquired alot more gears. Does it make me a hypocrit? Still enjoying da hell outta my music.

No. I used to drink margaritas made with canned syrup and El Toro, now I make them with Grand Marnier and Cabo Wabo. That doesn't make the a hypocrite. It just makes me sophisticated and refined.

[kcramer]

The first post reminds me of the time I was riding with a friend in HIS car.(back in highschool) He spent all this money on his audio system. Separate tweets and mids in the front. A really expensive deck with separate eq AND offboard crossover network. When he plays music he plays it rather loud. And all the upper levels on the EQ are cranked all the way up. In essence, WAY TOO MUCH TREBLE. Of course, I adjusted the eq becuase it HURT my ears. uh oh, oops, did I cross the line? TISK TISK That wasn't my system to be messing with. I have my own that I mess with now all the time. Sounds awesome, better than his. (in my opinion) I don't ride in his car anymore. that's my solution. I don't like being blown out by distortion or an eq that isn't properly calibrated...

Of course, I'm a stickler, I like the music to sound as CLOSE TO THE ORGINAL MIX AS POSSIBLE. NOT OVERLY ENHANCED WITH AN EQ or a LIVE ROOM. I'll admit, I spend a lot of time tuning the stereo(like they do in the studio), but at some point, I'm done messing with it because I finally acheived the sound I'm looking for while also keeping in mind: NOT ALL MUSIC IS MASTERED IN A WAY I CONSIDER "CORRECT". But I listen anyways and appreciate the ample amount and/or lack of time engineers put into the mix. heh heh

Just stirring up the pot....

[blackraven]

Fantastic post. I think that most audiophiles are perfectionists and are always searching for the ever elusive HOLY GRAIL of audio equipment. We are never quite satisfied with the sound of music on our systems, so we are always analyzing the sound and take little time to just sit back and enjoy the music. I think this is more prevalent when we are in our own homes without the outside distractions of people and conversation. I totally agree that music can sound much better on an inferior system when we are in a bar or at someone's home having a good time and not over analyzing the faults in our equipment and sound.