I Want Better Sound...

[shokhead]

How dare you respond to RICKY,you dont have 1000 posts yet.

[GMichael]

Easy guys. Let's just try to help the original poster.

More power (or current) is great, if your speakers can take it. If not, you may be better off looking and listening to as many speakers as you can. Once you find the ones you like then you can look into what amps are good for those speakers.

[FLZapped]

Easy guys. Let's just try to help the original poster.

More power (or current) is great, if your speakers can take it. If not, you may be better off looking and listening to as many speakers as you can. Once you find the ones you like then you can look into what amps are good for those speakers.

Actually, more power may not be a good thing. Power Amplifiers are rated for a S/N ratio based on Max rated output. Therefore, two amps, each having a 105dB S/N rating, yet one is 400 watts and one is 100 watts. The 400 watt amp will have a higher absloute noise floor by 6dB - which might make the noise audible in your speakers with no other signal present.

If you've read enough reviews, you will also find that distortion follows a bathtub curve depending on power output. With a too powerful amp, you're running the risk of increased distortion on quiet passages.

-Bruce

[GMichael]

Actually, more power may not be a good thing. Power Amplifiers are rated for a S/N ratio based on Max rated output. Therefore, two amps, each having a 105dB S/N rating, yet one is 400 watts and one is 100 watts. The 400 watt amp will have a higher absloute noise floor by 6dB - which might make the noise audible in your speakers with no other signal present.

If you've read enough reviews, you will also find that distortion follows a bathtub curve depending on power output. With a too powerful amp, you're running the risk of increased distortion on quiet passages.

-Bruce

A bathtub curve? OK, now you've peaked my interest. What's a bathtub curve? Does the tub have water in it?

I do see what you mean that more watts don't equal better sound. Too many other factors to factor in as they say. But if you stay within one class or manufacturer the other numbers tend to improve as the power goes up. Not that they have to. Just in a lot of cases they do.

I still think set-up, placement and speakers make the biggest difference.

[shokhead]

What good is more watts if your speakers are rated at, lets say 125max? Is there a reason to spend your money on a 250watt per amp/receiver? If you upgrading to better speakers latter sure but not if your staying with the speakers ya got right?

[FLZapped]

A bathtub curve? OK, now you've peaked my interest. What's a bathtub curve? Does the tub have water in it?

I do see what you mean that more watts don't equal better sound. Too many other factors to factor in as they say. But if you stay within one class or manufacturer the other numbers tend to improve as the power goes up. Not that they have to. Just in a lot of cases they do.

I still think set-up, placement and speakers make the biggest difference.

Just as described, distortion goes up and really low power levels, is low in the middle, and goes up as it approaches clipping. Resembles a bathtub....

-Bruce

[GMichael]

Just as described, distortion goes up and really low power levels, is low in the middle, and goes up as it approaches clipping. Resembles a bathtub....

-Bruce

Oh, very simple. I'm supprised that someone as simple as me didn't get that.

Thanks, but you still didn't say if the tub needs water.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Resident Loser]

A bathtub curve? OK, now you've peaked my interest. What's a bathtub curve?

...If you plotted the numbers on a graph the end result would look like the profile of a bathtub...starting out as a high number(relatively speaking), dropping precipitously to a much lower level, staying there as a straight horizontal line for a bit and finally, rising in a similar fashion to the way it fell...sorta' like this:

---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---
---I---\---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I/--I---I---
---I---I\--I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---/---I---I---
---I---I-\-I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I--/I---I---I---
---I---I--\I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I-/-I---I---I---
---I---I---\---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I/--I---I---I---
---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---


jimHJJ(...please pardon the extemporaneous "artwork"...)

Finally figured out how to do it, this might be mo' betta'...

P.S. to quote a certain Mr. Bond "...shocking..."

...Go figure, it took me an hour to dash-dash-dash an example, then to find graph paper I could copy, then figure how to connect the jpgs...talk about a day late and a dollar short...gotta' get a hobby...

[GMichael]

...If you plotted the numbers on a graph the end result would look like the profile of a bathtub...starting out as a high number(relatively speaking), dropping precipitously to a much lower level, staying there as a straight horizontal line for a bit and finally, rising in a similar fashion to the way it fell...sorta' like this:

---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---
---I---\---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I/--I---I---
---I---I\--I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---/---I---I---
---I---I-\-I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I--/I---I---I---
---I---I--\I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I-/-I---I---I---
---I---I---\---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I/--I---I---I---
---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---I---


jimHJJ(...please pardon the extemporaneous "artwork"...)

Finally figured out how to do it, this might be mo' betta'...

P.S. to quote a certain Mr. Bond "...shocking...")

But where's the water?

[Florian]

I wish i could own a B&W Nautilus 801

[accastil]

Easy guys. Let's just try to help the original poster.

More power (or current) is great, if your speakers can take it. If not, you may be better off looking and listening to as many speakers as you can. Once you find the ones you like then you can look into what amps are good for those speakers.

so if my existing receiver is 90W/ch, do i have to get a more powerful stereo amp (greater wattage) to beef up my main speakers for it to sound better?

[Resident Loser]

...a broken record, define "better"...better yet, what do you find lacking in what you have that prompts the search for that arbitrary level of quality.

Depending on the loudspeaker's efficiency, 90Wpc should be more than sufficient. I have a 100Wpc amp and relatively inefficient speakers and at normal listening levels the amp's metering indicates cruising at around 2-3 Watts, definitely <5...It also depends on what you listen to...music with a wide dynamic range will require more headroom than pop(generally speaking)...

The ability to produce volume isn't necessarily indicative of the quality of the sound produced, so that may not be what you require to get "better"...Perhaps you do need a more powerful amp because your playback levels are creating audible distortion due to the amp being overdriven...we can only guess...rather than play twenty questions, you tell us, otherwise the generic answers you can expect are: get speakers you think are superior, try some room-tuning, that sort of thing.

jimHJJ(...we really can't answer non-questions...)

[noddin0ff]

accastil-
You said your speakers sounded fantastic. It is really hard to give advice on how to improve fantastic sound. You won't get any useful advice unless you tell us what you find lacking. If what you find is lacking agrees with the many things the reviewer in the link below found lacking, then the answer to getting better sound is not going to be a better amp, it will be obtaining different speakers. Your profile says you have these...yes?

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=992

Some of the reviewers negative comments...

"the front-mounted main drivers also go deep into the bass, and this threw up phase cancellation problems. With the subs nominally in phase, there was considerable cancellation below 100Hz; setting them nominally out of phase moved the cancellation up to the mid/upper-bass (70-150Hz). Neither situation was satisfactory. Mordaunt-Short designer Graham Foy suggested I should use the line-level subwoofer feed from the AV processor, and this wrought a substantial improvement, though there was still a bit of a 'hole' in the upper bass."

-- they have complex bass issues and take much effort to set up properly.

"it could have livelier dynamics, and voices do sound a bit 'shut in', with a touch of nasality"

--they are built for HT dynamics, not musical subtlety.

"The centre speaker is a little more 'forward' and explicit than the main stereo pair"

--they are not well matched, and the mains are inferior to the center, most likely because most HT listening comes from the center, not the main. Sounds like they compromised on the mains.

"the system is not without its idiosyncrasies. It's not the simplest to set up - that phase switch always adds an element of uncertainty, and the subs should only be used via line/.1 inputs.

--it is difficult to get good sound out of this system.

Now, what don't you like...

[GMichael]

so if my existing receiver is 90W/ch, do i have to get a more powerful stereo amp (greater wattage) to beef up my main speakers for it to sound better?

I think the power you have now in plenty to drive the speakers you have now. If you bought an amp with more power you may end up getting a little better sound but I don't think it would be worth the money unless,
A - the amp is free or very cheap.
B - you plan on upgrading your speakers as well in the future.

[markw]

I think the power you have now in plenty to drive the speakers you have now. If you bought an amp with more power you may end up getting a little better sound but I don't think it would be worth the money unless,
A - the amp is free or very cheap.
B - you plan on upgrading your speakers as well in the future.

Those speakers contain powered subwoofers. Virtually all the available amp power is going to driving the midrange/high drivers already.

And, those speakers are 4 ohm units. As we all know, amps tend to produce more power at lower impedances. Do you really more power would be of any benefit? As I've hinted at before, I don't, but obviously that's the answer he wants to hear.

[GMichael]

those speakers ar e 4 ohm units,

Is his receiver 4 ohm stable?
I wonder if anyone has the resistance curve for these speakers.

[markw]

Is his receiver 4 ohm stable?
I wonder if anyone has the resistance curve for these speakers.

Check page 1, post 14, dated 12/07. I noted there in item 5 that Marantz does not rate these for 4 ohm, only 8 and 6 ohms. FWIW, the 6 ohm rating is 110 watts and the speakers rated max is 150 watts.

It looks like these speakers might not be a "fantastic" choice for this receiver or, conversely, this receiver might not be a "fantastic" choice for these speakers.

In either case, considering the subwoofers handle the heavy duty work, I doubt the mids and highs suck up that much power.

A quote from the review linked to in item 4 in my 12/07 post. "The powered bass sections of the main speakers allow ear-shattering volumes to be achieved even with a modestly powered amp."

Both Noddingoff's and my links to reviews of these speakers, both reviewers indicate some reservations about using these speakers for music,

IMNSHO, he can add all the power he wants and he may get a db or two more loudness but it's not going to change the overall sound of the system. Remember, a 3 db increase in volume requires double the power and, in the grand scheme of things, 3 db isn't squat.

[shokhead]

**** you. there. i'm not nice. does shock **** and nod eat it? i think he does! you are not impressed because your jealous, admit it. go ahead. you'll never have what i have. and **** YOU.

HEY NOD, SHOCK IS READY TO ****. YOU BETTER HURRY AND WIPE HIS ASS

LMAO. Oh stop it RICKY. Stop it right now! OK,i forgive you,you are a newbie so we can start all over again. I agree with GMichael. Thats what i thought i was trying to say but maybe it didnt come across that way.

[RICKY009]

I Accept Apology + Apologize Myself. But What's W/your Buddy Nod? He Waits For You To Say Something, Then He Posts Some Stupid Comment Cheering You On? I Apologize To Him Too. Sincerely.

But, Now, I Have "bob" Here. What Do I Say To This ..... Person? I Am Sorry Bob. And No Bob, I Did Not Intend To Purposely Write In Caps On My First Thread. And As Far As My Reading Ability, I Will Humbly Say That I Graduated From Uw Wis Law School With A Jd. I Am A Member Of The Bar. Probably Not The Same Bar You Attend.

And For The Size Of My Schlong, I'm Too Old To Worry About That Crap Anylonger. What I Have Has Served Me Well. I'll Repeat, When I Wrote My First "thread" I Was Sincerely Trying To Give My Input To A Person Who Asked The Original Question. I Didn't Brag. Just Gave What I Have Learned Through The Years. And Bob, Now I Know Why Tigers Eat Their Young.

[noddin0ff]

**** you. there. i'm not nice. does shock **** and nod eat it? i think he does! you are not impressed because your jealous, admit it. go ahead. you'll never have what i have. and **** YOU.

HEY NOD, SHOCK IS READY TO ****. YOU BETTER HURRY AND WIPE HIS ASS

Pottymouth! Pottymouth! RICKY009 is a Pottymouth! You must make your mother proud (set you up for a free shot).
Remember, **** is the crutch of the illiterate.

[bobsticks]

The "you" generalization is pejorative, effectively implying that nobody on this sight is capable of completing a 1000-word composition. Believing that brevity is the soul of wit I'll attempt to finish in 999 words or less.
Points of contention:
1) You obviously did intend to capitalize everything on your first thread which, no doubt,
accomplished your goal of being the center of attention.
2) You fail to understand that if any of us Newbies wanted a recitation of your magazine readings(looking at the pictures,I'm sure) we could employ a google search and be spared your open-mouth breathing antics.
3) You use the word "BIG" repeatedly...compensating?
4) "I DON'T WANT TO BRAG...", "BUY A(N) AMPLIFIER AS EXPENSIVE..."...compensating again?

Ostentation is in bad form, but being a hack poseur is just plain rude. So run, Ricky,run to your basement dungeon, crank up Gene Loves Jezebel on you 600 watt phallic symbol and repeat the following line..."IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET!"

[RICKY009]

$30,000 Phallic Symbol System. Bob Stick. Is That Some Sort Of Reference To Your Organ? A Stick? What Does "lmao" Mean?

[RICKY009]

Hey Bob. Remember, I Am The Center Of The Universe, Not This Site!!! And Never Forget It.

[RICKY009]

Bob. What Do You Do For A Living? What Does Your Audio System Consist Of?

[RICKY009]

Pottymouth? Are You Gay?