I Think I May Have Been Screwed Over!

[Bigmoney]

Let me again clear the confusion. Audio Classics had nothing to do with the transaction other than transferring the money to Gary. I believe they serviced the unit for him. He doesn't have a pay pal so they agreed to give him the money. They were not going to ship or do anything other than give him my money. They were very helpful. The whole situation was not a matter of service. I had confidence in the amp getting shipped out on time, being insured, packed carefully etc. The issue was with his rudeness towards me after my basic request of a tracking number and to let me know when he received the money(after all it wasn't going into his account but rather to audio classics. I wanted to make sure he got it). I just believe in life that you should take what you give. Hey, I think the beatles wrote a song on that gesture. " The love that you take is the love that you make" sound familar. Anyway that's one of my favorite lyrics of theirs and I apply it to my life. If I treat people with respect and courtesy than I expect the same. I am only eighteen but that shouldn't devoid me of the right to stand up for myself. I may have a lot to learn, but my mother has taught me well about common courtesy.

Lessee... considering the transaction was initiated Friday (time unknown), few people ship on Saturday (due to lack of commercial carriers making pickups), they were closed on Sunday, and they are on California time, I'd say you got pretty dang good service.

You didn't even give them one full business day to ship it out! Perhaps he/they simply wanted to wash their hands of this mess.

After all, a 2270 in good condition that has recently been gone over by a tech, with a warranty is a pretty good deal at $250. I'd say you lost out on this one.

[markw]

I am only eighteen but that shouldn't devoid me of the right to stand up for myself.

You should choose your battles carefully, grasshopper.

I may have a lot to learn, but my mother has taught me well about common courtesy.

That's debatable. You could have allowed them at least one full business day to ship it out and get a tracking number. Once you found out the money transfer was a two-step process you should have allowed him at least one more business day to ship it out and get a transaction number before deluging him with emails, phone calls, et al. That would have been common courtsey.

Instead, you chose the route of a spoiled child who expects the world to stop for you.

Not even one full business day passed between the time you initiated the deal, you started trashing the other parties in public, and you got your money back. If that's not the action of a spoiled child, I don't know what is.

[Bigmoney]

Well, your assessment of a child paying for college on his own and having been abandoned by his father 6 years ago as being spoiled is debatable as well. Please understand I simply asked him for a tracking number when he gets it out. He could have waited until he got it out and sent me the information. That would have been fine. He didn't have to respond so rudely.You are clearly missing the point of what happened. I didn't send emails demanding tracking information at the moment. I asked if he could please send me the information when it gets shipped. I am putting myself through college by working, scholarships, and loans. I have no father, he abandoned me years ago and left my mother and I with nothing. I guess that is a little spoiled isn't it. Not complaining but just negating your claim. For someone as wise as you claim to be, Mark, you should know not to judge a book by it's cover and not to make things personal when they are not. You don't know me, and if you did I would find it laughable for you to make the conclusion that I am spoiled. I actually have very little by comparison to my peers, and music is what I turn to to get me through the tough times.

[Bigmoney]

Mark, I am not trying to get into an argument with you, but what you said about me is just simply false. I sense this is getting blown out of proportion now and truth in what happened between Gary and I is being lost. I am not going to try to convince you who's right. I simply started this thread because I wanted help in getting my money back. Mark, you simply are not understanding what happened between Gary and I and that's fine. I just wish you wouldn't make such a hasty assumption of someone especially based on a single situation that you in fact have misinterpreted. I don't see the necessity in you name calling me. Also, despite what you said about me bashing the parties involved, I never once bashed Audio Classics and I made sure several times to make it clear that they did nothing wrong here.

[markw]

You've provideed some pretty interesting insights on how you expect to be treated in this thread. It's going by that that I formed my opinion.

My use of "spoiled" deals less with being handed everything you want by a rich daddy ot mommy, but by expecting others to treat you differently than other people, which seems to be your case.

To not allow them one business day to complete the transaction before trashing them here is disgusting. And, from your first post here it's apparant that you tried to initiate more than one communication wiith the parties involved and were disabused for being a pest. Did you ever think that they might have better, more important things to do than play with you?

It's sad hat your daddy lefy you and your mom but a lot of kids have problems and have to work through them. Good for you for doing so, but don't use your personal problems as an excuse to be a "richard" in your dealings with others. That's not really acceptable in the world of adults.

You say you treat others like you want to be treated. I'd say you got just what you asked for, and lost out on a cherry piece of gear to boot. Trust me, you lost more than they did.

[Bigmoney]

Mark, I respect your opinion. But I also respectfully disagree. I just simply dont think you understand what happened. Are you saying that I should have just taken his response of "you are driving me crazy with unnecessary emails. it will be shipped. leave me alone". Before that point, I had done nothing more than ask him for the shipping information WHEN HE GETS IT OUT. That is not unreasonable. I called him twice, once on Thursday to tell him i was buying it, and once on Friday to let him know I sent the funds. It wasn't until he was rude that I bashed him.

[markw]

Mark, I respect your opinion. But I also respectfully disagree. I just simply dont think you understand what happened. Are you saying that I should have just taken his response of "you are driving me crazy with unnecessary emails. it will be shipped. leave me alone". Before that point, I had done nothing more than ask him for the shipping information WHEN HE GETS IT OUT. That is not unreasonable. I called him twice, once on Thursday to tell him i was buying it, and once on Friday to let him know I sent the funds. It wasn't until he was rude that I bashed him.

I think you should have given him the courtsey of at least one full business day, perhaps even two to pack it, ship it and get a tracking number before going ballistic and taking it public in this forum.

To say you think you're being screwed and dragging a respected business into this you did a dishonorable thing when I truly believe there was no need to do so.

Had you been patient, I'm fairly sure it would have been on it's way to you even as we speak.

[Ajani]

I called the seller twice, once to tell him my interest, and second time to verify he receive the money. I called him the second time after emailing him to see if he got the paypal, with no answer. Lastly, the day after speaking to him on the phone, I emailed him asking if he could provide the tracking number for me.

If I'm understanding your initial post: you called and e-mailed this guy about a simple transaction a total of 4 times (2 calls and 2 e-mails) in 2/3 days?

You emailed him the 2nd day to say you sent the money, got no response (how long did you wait for that response?) and then called him to say that you sent the money...

BM, the reason your got your money back is because the Guy was NOT trying to screw you over... you annoyed him and he was rude to you... that hurt your feelings and you made big deal out of demanding your money back...

Quick question: Since you keep bringing up that $250 is a lot of money for you, may I ask what happened to the $1500 Rotel RC1070 Preamp & RB1080 Poweramp that you bought just a few months ago? If I remember correctly, you bought them to upgrade from a Denon Receiver you had. Every time you come on this forum you are changing gear and at the same time saying you are a poor college student... You are acting like a slightly less neurotic version of SVI (our resident troll)...

[Bigmoney]

I saved up years for that money after working two jobs, I also knew it's re sale value on the market. I also wasn't in college then. I sold my gear to help finance my school. Now I am just trying to scrap together a decent system for my dorm. There's nothing wrong with setting aside money from each paycheck to finance something you really want. Actually thats admirable. I always buy used stuff as well so that I know I can get my money back if I ever need to. I have made a lot of sacrifices for my equipment. I am beginning to sense this is starting to become a polarizing thread. Sorry that you hate me now, I meant no harm.

[Ajani]

I saved up years for that money after working two jobs, I also knew it's re sale value on the market. I also wasn't in college then. I sold my gear to help finance my school. Now I am just trying to scrap together a decent system for my dorm. There's nothing wrong with setting aside money from each paycheck to finance something you really want. Actually thats admirable. I always buy used stuff as well so that I know I can get my money back if I ever need to. I have made a lot of sacrifices for my equipment.

That's fine.... ask around on this site and you'll see that many people have saved and worked and sacrificed to get whatever setup they have now...

I am beginning to sense this is starting to become a polarizing thread. Sorry that you hate me now, I meant no harm.

You really think that because people disagree with you, it means that they hate you? I don't have space in my life for hate. All we have really said is that we don't feel that the guy was trying to rip you off and that you were at least partially to blame for the situation turning sour.

You can walk away from your audiogon experience with the belief that you just asked perfectly reasonable questions (in a normal time frame) and were attacked by an obnoxious seller OR you can do some reflection and ask whether there is something you need to change in your approach to business dealings.

Either way, I'm glad you got your money back. Good luck with your search for an amp.

[bobsticks]

I don't think that it's about hating you or it being a polarizing event. It's about perspectives and expectations and ,if you think about it, the outcome was fairly predictable.

You were in a position of having worked very hard to save up a certain amount of money and having done some research to find what you hoped would be a bit of a diamond in the rough. I'm sure there was a high degree of expectation. Undoubtedly, his reaction to your messages was not only curt but on some level devalued your built-up anticipation.

What do we know about Gary? Well, since he was using Audio Classics as a middleman we can assume that he's not a dealer. Also,since he sells 4k amps we can assume that he buys them indicating he has some other form of employment. Perhaps the expectation that he would be eager to immediately drop everything and send the package or even communicate about it was a bit optimistic.

You seem to have a sense of fairplay and some ideals about how folks should treat one another, That's laudable and will probably take you far in life...it's just that you can't expect everyone else to share your priorities.

Please don't confuse this with an excuse for bad manners. It's not and his words were clearly overwrought with unnecessary drama but at the same time it is questionable whether the timing of the e-mails was judicious.

...and who knows? Maybe ol' boy just lost his ass in the stock market like erebody else. Might've just been a grumpy old bastard.