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  • 08-14-2010, 12:44 PM
    TypeA
    Home speaker reviews
    Hi all.

    Ive been researching a new 7.2 home theater speaker package. Most all speaker manufactures have, what I consider to be, 'pro' reviews from the likes of sound and vision, home theater magazine, audiophile, ect ect ect. However Bic acoustictech speakers have none of that (save an obscure review by an unknown PHD from 2004). Called their sole distributor today to ask, for a speaker package that can NOT be evaluated in any store front, why there are ZERO pro reviews after being in business for six years. I was promptly informed that other manufactures PAY for these reviews, that I was incorrect in believing that manufactures simply submit their speakers, free of charge, for evaluation and bench marking by these well-know magazines and review sources. Sure, there are lots of "user reviews" for these speakers (all positive btw) but I also know anyone can register and put whatever they want. So, is this true, do manufactures PAY for these reviews from main stream reviewers?
  • 08-14-2010, 01:26 PM
    markw
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TypeA
    So, is this true, do manufactures PAY for these reviews from main stream reviewers?

    Not that I'm aware of. They may provide the product to be reviewed and, hopefully, it's returned by reputable firms, but that's about it.

    Look into Infinity Primus for another option. They're getting good press from owners today, not four years ago.
  • 08-14-2010, 03:43 PM
    JoeE SP9
    In the first place why would you want a speaker package that was last reviewed by "Mr Nobody" six years ago? That alone should tell you something.

    Do you think a car magazine or any other enthusiast publication is paid by the manufacturers? In most cases I think the reviewers would pay the manufacturers to get access to do a review. Consumer Reports goes as far as actually buying any product they review.

    While I may not always agree with the major audio magazines web sites and reviewers I don't believe they get paid for reviews. My understanding is that all gear speakers included is regular production that is loaned to the magazine and/or reviewer.

    I've said this before and I'm saying it again. "The only way to make an informed speaker purchase is to listen before you buy. Buying because a magazine, reviewer or web site recommends it is not making an informed decision."
  • 08-14-2010, 05:12 PM
    luvtolisten
    Hi Type A and welcome to AR! I'm sure there are some that are paid, but those IMO are far and few between. There are some however, who are afraid to ruffle any feathers, for fear if they write a bad review, they won't get any more samples from that company. Joe E advice is sound, hear it with your own ears, if it's possible. If not I guess as Clint Eastwood would say "Do you feel lucky today?" I live in a small town, audio availability is very low, so it depends how much I'm investing to drive to hear what I'm interested in. If it's not worth the drive,then I look for reviews from actual OWNERS, on forums such as this. Them you can also see what other equipment they are running it with and get a better feel if it's suited for you or not.
    I look mainly for the negative responses, there are always a few you can throw out, but if the positive far outweighs the negative, then I may be willing to chance it, but make sure I have 30 days to return if I'm not 100% satisfied, for any reason whatsoever..
  • 08-14-2010, 05:41 PM
    TypeA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by luvtolisten
    I live in a small town, audio availability is very low, so it depends how much I'm investing to drive to hear what I'm interested in...

    Ditto. Thank you three. Problem with this line is that there is NO showroom, and theyre horn loaded (which Ive never experienced in home theater)...yes, I can listen to Klipich for an idea of what horn sounds likebbut am considering foregoing a 7.2 system for NOW. Instead, sucking it up, and starting with an Infinity P362 (2), PC350 (1), P162 (2), and a $400 (as yet unnamed) sub package instead. Roughly the same price as the 7.2 from bic. Am I on the right track here?
  • 08-14-2010, 06:27 PM
    blackraven
    Thats a decent price for an Infinity Primus package.. I would consider looking at some PSB Alpha B1's that sell for about $279pr. This link has some B-stock for $219pr.

    http://saturdayaudio.com/picturepages/psb_bstock.htm

    Here's a good review on the PSB's

    http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcom...psb/index.html

    I would also consider a pair of PSB B-25's or B-15's if you can find them. They sound better than the infinity P-162's. I bought a pair of P-160's which is essentially the same speaker as the 162 and they have decent sound for the $150pr price I paid but the PSB's are in another class.
  • 08-14-2010, 06:42 PM
    blackraven
    These Boston Acoustics are a great buy for an inexpensive Bookshelf

    http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...coustics-cs26b
  • 08-14-2010, 07:01 PM
    TypeA
    You guys are awesome...lots of good suggestions indeed. Despite a good deal on what appears to be top flight speakers like the b1, I think the remainder of the package might end up out of my price range (unless I did a b1 times 5 lol). No joy finding the B-25's or B-15' either :(

    Id really like to keep all speakers the same manufacture, so can a boston 5.0 package compete with a $800 (shipped) 5.0 Infinity system comprised of a P362 (2), PC350 (1), P162 (2) at roughly the same price? Not doubting you at all Raven, its an honest question from a rookie.
  • 08-14-2010, 07:07 PM
    luvtolisten
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TypeA
    Ditto. Thank you three. Problem with this line is that there is NO showroom, and theyre horn loaded (which Ive never experienced in home theater)...yes, I can listen to Klipich for an idea of what horn sounds likebbut am considering foregoing a 7.2 system for NOW. Instead, sucking it up, and starting with an Infinity P362 (2), PC350 (1), P162 (2), and a $400 (as yet unnamed) sub package instead. Roughly the same price as the 7.2 from bic. Am I on the right track here?

    For what it's worth, I have the BIC 62's and Infinity Beta 20's. The Infinity are a better build,( I took a inside both) with better bass, but the BIC's I think have the edge in the highs and mids. I guess it may come down to what type of music you like. If it's acoustical or jazz, I prefer the BIC 62's. If it's rock, the Infinity's have the edge.
  • 08-14-2010, 07:15 PM
    TypeA
  • 08-14-2010, 07:45 PM
    luvtolisten
    Not bad, my first pair of speakers were a pair of Bose 301's (series 1, early 70's). A friend of mine had the 901's back then, his were hanging from the ceiling too, in those rope plant holders.
    Hey, we all had to start somewhere:)
  • 08-15-2010, 01:07 AM
    TypeA
    By replacing these Bose with this Infinity package I like to think I am, literally, replacing some of the worst with some of the best (within a reasonable budget anyway). My HK 7000 has just recently been 'relieved of duty' by the Marantz SR7002. Ive read the P362 can be a little power hungry, but Im hoping the 7002 will do fine with its touted, "110 watts per channel, in all discrete "Current Feedback" amplier stages." Opinions? Bi-amplifying the fronts is an option with the receiver, and it has preouts for all seven channels.

    Any other feedback about the current decision of the P362 (2), PC350 (1), P162 (2)? Will this combo be the best timber match? I liked the review and look of the psb's, but have lived with this Bose system for years and Im VERY ready to go towers in the front. ONLY way I could afford the PSB's would be an 'all' bookshelf system with roughly the same money as the Infinity.
  • 08-15-2010, 06:57 AM
    JoeE SP9
    The customer reviews and forum posts here and on other sites all have good things to say about the "Primus" speakers. That many people can't be wrong. Were I in your position I'd be inclined to take a chance on the Infinities. I would forget about the BIC's. The out right lie you were told is a good indicator of deceptive everything.

    Something to remember is that magazines don't review products the reviewers don't think much off.
  • 08-15-2010, 11:42 AM
    TypeA
    And you are absolutely right, " The only way to make an informed speaker purchase is to listen before you buy. Buying because a magazine, reviewer or web site recommends it is not making an informed decision."

    As tragic as it may be for someone to rely solely on reviews and class comparisons, it still gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling when a contributing editor of Stereophile just recently told me, "Not in Stereophile (sic we are not paid for our reviews). The reason we have not reviewed the BIC speakers is that they do not fit our segment of the market or, I believe, the interests of our readers. I cannot comment on other publications but I doubt that "pay for play" is universal." I see stereophile reviews of the 362's predecessor, the then more expensive 360. That review states, "It has an attractive combination of strengths and weaknesses, and presents levels of high-level dynamic drama and effortlessness that are unheard of at the price." Of the current P162, that will make up my surround and rear channels, they write, " if you're looking for a speaker that will present detailed, uncolored, dynamic, and involving musical and home-theater experiences independent of the type of music or volume level, you can rest easy in knowing that the Primus P162 will satisfy all of your needs, and will likely give many years of musical satisfaction without you ever feeling the compulsion to upgrade. Infinity, you've done it again."

    Ironically enough, I think the acoustitec's pl76 package would be a good set-up, and a super value for a 7.2 package. However, when you consider the lack of their name relative to Infinity (spoken like a true Bose owner eh?) and their sole distributor implying reviews may be paid for, suddenly that extra rear pair and extra 12 inch sub didnt seem so great any more.
  • 08-15-2010, 02:15 PM
    blackraven
    The more I look at that deal for the Infinity page the more I think it is a great deal. The Primus series are not bad speakers and you could do a lot worse. Just make sure that you use a decent sub with them. They tend to lack bass and a sub with nice tight bass will really help with the sound. I'm quite surprised that it comes with the 162's for the rear channels instead of the smaller P-152's. The 162's are fairly large for a bookshelf. The 362's list for about $320pr and the 162's go for about $180pr.
  • 08-15-2010, 02:44 PM
    TypeA
    Im really glad you mentioned subs. Ultimately I am building a 7.2 system but will probably buy them one at a time. Id love some input on the right choice for me...my budget is no more than $400 per sub, maybe $450 shipped. I want tight, as I suspect eventually going .2 will be plenty of bass for me. Ive read that a 10" sub is in my future, unless Im willing to spend much more to get a 'tight 12"', is that correct? Also, any recommended subs must be realistically easy to find in the near future, as my budget wont afford dual subs at the same time and Id like them to match exactly. Otherwise, small form factor (svs looks awesome, but also a great example of way too big for my taste), black ash finish to match all other speakers. As long as its black, I guess the finish doesnt matter, but throwing it out there just in case.
  • 08-15-2010, 03:28 PM
    luvtolisten
    HSU also makes some fine subs as well.
    http://www.hsuresearch.com/
    Energy does too, but they are due for another style change.
  • 08-15-2010, 05:02 PM
    JoeE SP9
    It might be a good time to look at Energy subs. A style change would mean lower prices on existing inventory.
  • 08-15-2010, 05:51 PM
    TypeA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    It might be a good time to look at Energy subs. A style change would mean lower prices on existing inventory.

    Thats always the exact same thing that first comes to my mind, as long as a month or two down the road I can still get a second sub of the same model.

    Case in point; I picked up a new marantz 7002 receiver off amazon (so includes the full three year warranty) and it came with an upgraded main remote ($350 RC3001) all for $600 shipped! Its 1.3a hdmi, but for a $1700 retail price tag I wasnt complaining about such a good deal.
  • 08-15-2010, 06:17 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TypeA
    Thats always the exact same thing that first comes to my mind, as long as a month or two down the road I can still get a second sub of the same model.

    Case in point; I picked up a new marantz 7002 receiver off amazon (so includes the full three year warranty) and it came with an upgraded main remote ($350 RC3001) all for $600 shipped! Its 1.3a hdmi, but for a $1700 retail price tag I wasnt complaining about such a good deal.

    As far as Bic goes, they used to make some pretty good turntables, if thats the manufacturer
    I am thinking of. BESIDES a few other things.
    There won't be too many reviews, because this is an ENGLISH company, WHAT hI-fI
    MAG might know something about these, most likely someone got a cargo container
    cheap and is trying to unload them. Forget about them:1:
  • 08-15-2010, 06:24 PM
    blackraven
    If you want a nice tight musical sub that would be good for music as well as HT, consider a used Martin Logan Dynamo which you should be able to find for $400. I would also consider the Emotiva sub www.emotiva.com Mr. P has some good things to say about it.
    Mirage makes some nice inexpensive subs as well.

    http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm

    http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...v_c=GoogleBase

    The Mirage may be the better of the 2, but I'm sure both would fit your needs. The Mirage looks to have more power, peak and rms but power isn't every thing. I've heard a Mirage S8 and was impressed with that little sub.

    Judging from the size of your room, I would not go with a 12" sub.
  • 08-16-2010, 02:29 AM
    TypeA
    Hmmm, so far my favorites are

    Emotiva, $289 new shipped. Typical In‐Room Frequency Response: 25Hz‐200Hz Dimensions: 12.5” wide x 12.5” high x 13.5” deep

    Energy 10" $260 used shipped. 32Hz-140Hz freq response. HxWxD (including feet and grille) 17 x 13 x 14.8 inches


    The emo seems to have a much better response and is alot smaller. Opinions so far?
  • 08-16-2010, 03:30 AM
    luvtolisten
    I have the HSU STF-2, and an Energy ESW 8. The HSU will go lower and louder (10"), but the Energy ESW 8 (8") is more musical and a bargain. But then again, I rarely use HT. I bought the HSU first, if I had to do it over again I would have bought 2 Energy subs and used the extra cash for something else. I can live without the floor shaking.:) But that's just me, my opinion.

    http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_407cjw49iw_e
  • 08-16-2010, 03:51 AM
    TypeA
    If this system will be 90% movies, 10% music can I really get away with an 8"? Music performance is very important to me, but ultimately not at the cost of movies. Im assuming Ill have this audio system for 10 years. During that time my room size will probably go up to a medium and its highly unlikely that this system will remain in such a small room as seen in the pics here in this thread. I figured in the interest of my budget, a tight 12" is out. An 8", while it is the most bang for the buck (especially the hsu), it wont go low or loud enough for a medium sized room, is that correct? I like the hsu but the only one that seems within my price range is the 8". I know my budget is $400 per, but $300 per shipped seems to be where Im headed in the 10" class (which is fine by me). Will eventually adding a second identical sub allow me to get good movie AND music performance from an 8"? If thats the case, that immediately puts the Mirage s8 on my list (small form factor and $200 each new shipped).

    Just for reference heres the freqs for the mains center surrounds (eventually rears will be added) and the mirage s8:

    main 38Hz - 20kHz center 80Hz - 20kHz
    surround/rears 49Hz - 20kHz

    mirage s8 27Hz-120Hz. 100 Watts RMS, 400 Watts Dynamic Power (times two) price is so good on these that I may even go four subs at a later date (I can start with two immediately tho, for a 5.2 system). Just worried I might not be getting low enough with this mirage regardless of the number of subs I can cram in a room (and cover the power needs of a medium sized room)

    Mirage 8" $200 each
    Energy 10" $300 each 32Hz-140Hz 400 Watts dynamic, 150 Watts continuous
    HSU 8" $300 each Bass extension 32 Hz 150 Watts
  • 08-16-2010, 06:05 AM
    TypeA
    Can everyone take a look at this latest comparison and give me some feedback (post above). the s8 is looking better and better in terms of freqs and price and form factor. Last post was updated with the numbers for the subs in the running. Thanks again for all the help guys, its been great.