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Thread: frustration

  1. #1
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    frustration

    I feel a since of frustration due to the fact that in todays world the way that home theater changes every couple of years you have to change components all the time to keep up. It makes me want to due what some of you other guys have done and seperate my music system from me home theater in two different rooms since usually a guy will keep quality seperate components and speakers for a number of years in a 2 channel system if they find something they like. But in HT the formats and decoding changes and improves every couple of years so really to get the most of it you have to buy new components every couple of years. So there is know reason to fall in love with your HT components because no matter what you paid for them new once the formats change or they come out with a new decoder for an updated format your beloved HT preamp or receiver is not worth a thing. That makes me want to be very conservative with my HT stuff and pay more money and attention to my 2 channel stuff and make two different systems because I don't want to have my sound suffer because I have two different levels of equipment working with each other. I think at some point Home theater is going to have to limit the amount of speakers you put in one room unless thats all this person wants to see. tell me what you guys think. I know quite a few of you guys have seperated their systems into music and movie system and since I listen and care about music way more the tv and movies I know which one I will consentrate on.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  2. #2
    Rob_a rob_a's Avatar
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    Re:

    I feel a separate 2ch system apart from your HT is a very good choice. While yes, the HT stuff changes like the wind, a solid 2ch setup can be enjoyed for years with very little care of up grading. This gives you the options to have a very nice musical set up that does not have to service a dual purpose. Analog is a great thing, set up in a bedroom or quite office away from your over sized theater system to be listening to in comfort and privacy.
    HT system:
    Marantz SR7001 receiver
    Emotiva UPA-2 Amplifier
    Adcom GDV-870 DVD-A/CD player
    Yamaha S1800 DVD/SACD player
    Panasonic DMP-BD60K blu Ray player
    PSB Image series speakes s/s
    Dayton RSS210HF 8" reference sub
    Hitachi 46" HD projector screen

  3. #3
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    I have a seperate HT set up which doesn't get any discussion on here. Mostly because HT is a farce, as you've stated.

    I focus on my stereo gear because just like you, I love my music. My last HT purchase was 3 years ago. You know what? It sounds great, my movies are super enjoyable and that's enough for me. If you have a good HT set up that sounds and looks great harley, then I say stick with it and just plug your ears and cover your eyes.

    Audio has the same quirks with new gadgetry and machines coming out all the time. Since this is your main love, stick with it and give the HT a deserved rest.

  4. #4
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I'm right in there with you on separating my music from my home theater. My home theater receiver cost me less than $200 and the Blu-ray player less than $200. I have budget-level JBL speakers in a 5.1 setup and call it a day. There are obviously better solutions, but that's as good as I care to pursue. The sound quality is good, but not great.


    When it comes to music, I listen critically to my 2-channel setup all the time. I'm always checking reviews, listings for used equipment and of course this forum, among others. Home theater just utilizes audio equipment to get its message across. Music is the audio hobby for me.


  5. #5
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    hey Harley I was just reading the Universal Health Care thread, if you want to feel not so frustrated, go there and read. I promise you'll feel pretty good by the end...THOSE people are frustrated...

  6. #6
    Charm Thai™
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    I gave up on home theater 15 years ago. All the different dolby pro-logic stuff and whatever the hell kind of surround formats exist nowadays, just never floated my boat. A well pieced together 2 channel system is all i've ever needed whether listening to music or watching the occasional movie. I've got 2 ears so give me 2 speakers.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I completely understand what you are saying pappa and I know that my frustrations are pretty trivial in comparison to what other people are facing out there. My simple issue is that whole step process when it comes to technology when it comes to home theater and the such. I do see the reasons as far as televisions go and will prbably buy me a bigger lcd here pretty quick because I can see a major difference in video quality. But when home theater companies completely change the audio formats every couple of years you are either forced to buy external processing or buy another pre/pro or receiver taking the chance that you will not like the features or the sound quality in the most important area of the unit, the musical playback sound quality.
    I love the fact that with audio systems when you are looking around at new speakers, preamps,power amps, or source component you are usually either replacing a broken component or you have saved the bones for an upgrade and thats the fun of it. you can love what you have and be satisfied with it even though there might be better out there. With home theater its either it works or its not compatable and if it is compatable for how long is that format going to be good for before it gets replaced by another format as top dog and then when you go to the audio shop to look at speakers they are trying to tell you how much better that format is and how much you need it. I think its all a repeat customer brainwash and frankly the whole thing makes me want to sell my yamaha, rear speakers, center channel, keep my power amp, my modified main speakers, By a quality preamp and cd player and spend the money off of selling all that to upgrade my music system and say to h#$% with Home theater!

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  8. #8
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    Two channel is my emphasis but I think you all are selling HT short. Have you ever heard a higher end HT system properly set up? I find it quite a thrill and enjoy it much more than I thought I would. Also, since adding the SVS sub I have learned a sub is much more important or should I say it's much more important to get one that does a good job. HT benefits from the same improvements as stereo, fast transients, clarity, channel separation, power, sound staging and tonal quality. It's more than what you are all used to hearing in the stores a bunch of rumble and boom. I mean when you hear a sax on a cheap stereo you know it's a sax but when you hear it on a nice system...... well that's a different thing. Same for HT when you hear a sword fight on a receiver is one thing but when you hear it on a good system and the steal is so real it almost makes your teeth hurt...... that's another. Another consideration is if a person is into concert videos or 5 channel music or SACD. Then an all round system would be more in order.

    You really don't have to upgrade as much as you might think. I do applaud Blu-ray for coming onto the market backward compatible with older gear and I never thought I'd see the decoder in the player again. But the industry does show less interest in making things standard these days.

    I do think with preamps from Rotel, Marantz, Onkyo/Integra from $1.5k to $2.5k it wouldn't be hard to set up a decent system and Emotiva's processor will be $699.00. There are also preamps and integrateds that have bypass features to allow your 2 channel system to be a slave to the HT while driving the front L/R. So there are options for the music lover. Depending on whether you listen alone or not, even a good headphone amp and set of cans might give you what you want.

    I think bottom line is whether both HT and stereo are important, if five channel music in whatever format, and, of course, budget.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I do understand that most of todays receivers or prepros have analog inputs for the newer blue ray players with the decoding in them and thats a good thing. I just sometimes thnk that with the same money for all of the speakers and gear for home theater one could by three times the two channel system. And yes by the way i have heard a properly set up home theater system and I know what your talking about but the older I get the more I get into music and the less I watch movies and video stuff. The most I do is watch my dish network programs off of my dvr and most of them are on channels that don't support dolby digital anyway.

    I used to work in the audio industry as a manager of a mid to high end audio, home theater store so I have installed these systems and have heard quite a few of them but that was around 12 years ago or so and I know things have changed since then

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  10. #10
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    Sounds like you are ready for a total transition and forget the HT. You could always just go 2.1, some have done that. Not meaning to push a product because I'm not sure how good it is but Emotiva has a stereo preamp for $399.00 which features a sub out with high and low pass built in crossover.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Yeah i have looked at that unit and read reviews and for the money it sounds like a good deal. Right now I am running my yamaha as a preamp and when in 2 channel made the home theater circuits switch off so as to not add signals or distortions to the 2 channel signal. but if I was to go with a preamp with ht passthrough I would want to make sure that the preamp I purchased would be a direct improvment over my setup right now and while I am looking at new speakers at the moment and I don't want to sell myself short on any level because I know how I am and if there is a shortcoming in my system I will make myself crazy thinking about it.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  12. #12
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    It makes me want to due what some of you other guys have done ...
    I've found the two system route to be ideal, but for a couple of other reasons as well:

    1. I cannot afford a five channel version of my two channel system and do not want to downgrade
    2. Speaker placement would be compromised for two channel listening in order to not block the screen (since I have large dipoles)
    3. It allows wifey to watch her programs while I listen.

    I rather enjoy the HT experience although not as much as music listening. Surround sound can be very natural sounding in this setting because, unlike musical performances, sounds do originate from all around you - whether you are in a forest, on a busy street or wherever. You feel immersed in the setting. As for obsolescence, I haven't worried too much about keeping fully current. My six and a half year old receiver does Dolby 5.1 and DTS and a bunch of synthesized modes for stereo sources, so they suffice for me. Sometime in the future, I would like to get an HDMI compatible receiver primarily to reduce the cable clutter. Meanwhile, I send the digital output from the sources to it and do fine.

    rw

  13. #13
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    I went the cheap HT route and the expensive 2CH rig.

    A few years ago I decided to "dabble" just to see what all the hype was. I got an HK 7 channel amp to use multi zone with 2 of them. I got a cheap center and a decent Mirage om12 sub. I was originally using some tiny Paradigm speakers as rears but replaced them with Dynaudio 42s to match the front 82s.

    I like the HT experience and what I have is good enough for watching movies while my main focus is on music. I rarely play 5ch stereo. I do use my main rig to drive the fronts but most front sound is from the center anyway.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    That's funny because i'm starting to wonder what all the fuss is about high-fidelity (well more so the big bucks involved) and am leaning toward HT (not that they're necessarily mutually exclusive). Perhaps i'm in a mid-audiolife crisis.

  15. #15
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    E-stat I understand what your saying about being able to afford a 2 channel system that is much better than could be had by getting a matched HT speaker setup and amplification to run it. My main passion is music and I play several instruments and know what to look for in audio. HT was mostly something I got started in because when I worked in a shop we sold alot of it. This was when Dolby Digital and DTS hit big so everyone was all jacked up about it and purchasing equipment for it all over the place. But know it seems that they can't leave these formats alone long enough for a person to get used to the equipment they own before they have to change to keep up. I do know that with analog inputs on preamps and receivers the knew crop of blue ray players can serve as decoders of the newest formats which is a very good idea in my book seeing how there are people out there like myself with a dd and dts receiver but not the lossless decoders, These Blue ray players help remedy this situation and was a good idea. But with my passion being music and audio I might keep my HT for movies but I think I will incorporate better components in the front two channels and possibly a better 2 channel preamp with bypass for my audio system.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  16. #16
    Forum Regular luvtolisten's Avatar
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    I went to an HT and 2.1 system. A high HT setup may sound great, but it's out of my reach. It changes so quickly, as stated, almost on a yearly basis. I enjoy the 2.1 or 2 channel set up. As I get older, I like things simple. I don't want to learn and program a new remote every year, even if I could afford it. Seems like I invested more time setting up and fiddling with the HT than enjoying it. Then once it's set, as some already said, it changes!
    You can update by buying used stuff with 2 channel. With HT, it's obsolete, or near it buying it used, or even sometimes on clearence. With 2 channel, you also have the option of enjoying vintage equipment. 2 channel has a lot of ejoyable history with it.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Thats what I was saying earlier. I would rather upgrade for the enjoyment of it and for better music reproduction that to be able to decode a new format. I know the new formats coming out for HT are awesome to hear with the right blue rays but its just alot to try to keep up with when my main concern is my music playback.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  18. #18
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    This was when Dolby Digital and DTS hit big...I do know that with analog inputs on preamps and receivers the knew crop of blue ray players can serve as decoders of the newest formats
    Only recently did I enter the Blu-Ray world. And of my modest collection, the soundtracks are all Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS variants. While I only get the basic flavor and not the "true HD" version, such is good enough for me. I don't plan to go the six analog interconnect route to access the new codecs.

    rw

  19. #19
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    I have heard the new "lossless" formated true hd formats and they are quite good but I think the only way I will get them is by maybe hooking a Oppo blue ray player to my Yamaha with analog cables, that will be enough for me. I just mostly listen to music and watch Dish network programs that don't have Dolby or DTS encoding. For me I think my money will be better spent on the music reproduction side and keeping my theater for the occasional movie or blue ray and keeping that part of it simple.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  20. #20
    all around good guy Jim Clark's Avatar
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    So you know upfront, I'm not saying any of this in a negative matter. It's just my opinion...

    with that said, it's only going to be frustrating if you have some overwhelming need to keep up with the Joneses. Thousands upon thousands of people in this Country are facing financial ruin because they were not happy with what they already had and could afford I'm sure it was just an inadvertent off the cuff statement but nobody is forcing you to follow every technological change within the industry "you are either forced to buy external processing or buy another pre/pro..." Not to mention all new software For my part, it's not gonna happen anytime soon. I'm honestly perfectly content with my system, short comings and all. It was amazing when I put it together and it's every bit as amazing today regardless.

    And to be fair, audio has it's fair share of tech. "advances" as well. HDCD, SACD, DVDA, music servers, online streaming and that's not even toucing the endless parade of remasters, as the most recent examples. Then there's the movement in the opposite direction with MP3 and gear designed to accommodate various players. Then there's the whole vinyl renaissance. Best Buy is even back to selling vinyl. If someone wanted to dive into that they of course need a turntable and if they have receiver or pre from the past decade then they're also going to need a phono preamp or it's no deal.

    Someone is always going to have bigger and badder and more bells and whistles. The best we can hope for is a system that works well for our needs.

    As I said, just an opinion.

    jc
    "Ahh, cartoons! America's only native art form. I don't count jazz 'cuz it sucks"- Bartholomew J. Simpson

  21. #21
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Well Jim thanks for your opinion and it is well taken. I do understand that there are upgrades on all levels of audio,video, and the sources they come from. I guess I just got rapped up in the overwelming amount of new formats and tech that is coming up right now. I know its not about keeping up with other peoples stuff its about making me happy with my setup and improving on it within my budget and making smart choices of the kinds of gear will make the best improvement. I Myself at this point are more interested in the music playback part of my system because thats what I primarily do is listen to music. The home theater part of it is a secondary that is used rarely to watch movies. I also understand the shortcomings of my system and would love to improve on it and plan to when making this move is logical in the budget department. So yes I do understand what you are saying and thank you for your kind and logical opinion to my delima

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  22. #22
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harley .guy07
    I guess I just got rapped up in the overwelming amount of new formats and tech that is coming up right now.
    Similarly, if you attempted to keep up with all the SVO improvements coming out of Milwaukee, you would go broke, too.

    rw

  23. #23
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    My approach to this issue has always been slightly different because I've never had a receiver. In 1970 I sold my Fisher integrated and moved to separates. In 1975 I bought a Pioneer TVX-9500 TV audio only tuner. With this connected to my preamp I listened to TV through my system. In the years since then, any and all audio from any source has come through my (only) system. Accommodating a new format for me means purchasing whatever processor or device is necessary for it and inserting it into my system.
    I don't understand why the introduction of a new format necessitates purchasing new software. Did the old software suddenly become unusable? My software library includes every format I've ever used. Yes, that includes Beta HiFi and cassette. I'm sure many of you have and still use VHS VCR's. I keep Beta and VHS decks connected and ready for use. The introduction of DVD's did not invalidate my use of video tape. Nor did the introduction of CD's cause me get rid of my LP's. A hearty thanks to those who dumped their LP's at fire sale prices back then.
    I'm not some kind of "Luddite". In most instances I'm an early adapter. The inherent flexibility of separates has made that easy. I can add the latest gadget or processor to my system and the only expense is the new device. This year I built and added a (PC) music server. Sometime next year I'll be adding a Blu-Ray capable player and later an HD capable processor. These will be additions or swaps. The rest of my system will remain the same as usual.
    Back in 76 I knew there would be a future convergence of audio and video. Many of my friends thought I was being more weird than usual. The present state of home entertainment is vindication enough for me.

    BTW: My opinions/findings on power cables soon!
    Last edited by JoeE SP9; 10-09-2009 at 12:06 PM.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  24. #24
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    Joe E, I'll be looking forward to hearing your experience with cables.

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