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Equalizer Question
I have an equalizer question! I see that there are equalizer that start form 30 frequency, from 31, 31.5 and most of the time 32! Is it true that the lower the number the better?
Here is another question! Is it good to connect 2 equalizers one after another?
http://i46.tinypic.com/67p5ef.jpg
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Actually its the bandwidth the EQ covers that is most important. The EQ in the picture is a 10 band EQ that is basically too crude to use for anything.
The most common usable EQ is a analog or digital 1/3 octave 30 band EQ, where the first band begins at 20hz.
The better EQ's are digital 1/6, 1/10, 1/20 and 1/30 EQ's which the latter can basically correct most anything. The latter is extremely expensive, and I have not seen a lot of these around.
It is a terrible idea to cascade two EQ's together. The phase issues alone with this setup would be enough to turn anyone off on it.
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I will add with what STtT said that using an EQ is something that takes understanding the properties or sound reproduction and what musical information is at different frequencies and using an EQ without having knowledge in how to use it can often lead to unnatural sound that is extremely boosted at the frequency extremes and hollowed out in the midrange. I seen it many times where a person without knowledge of how a EQ can help a system will just do the scoop thing that they have seen others do which in most cases makes the sound of any speaker system unnatural but to it over emphasizes the bass and upper treble so it has a since of better sound to the sound uneducated.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
Is it true that the lower the number the better?
While the apparent picture of the typical *smiley face* settings as illustrated looks smooth, in actuality it would result in a roller coaster of peaks and valleys ending up with a most unnatural sonic result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
Here is another question! Is it good to connect 2 equalizers one after another?
Do you understand there are sonic compromises made to the signal integrity in terms of phase and distortion with even one in the path?
rw
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Thanks for answering my questions! I was curious because I was using realistic equalizer and I changed it with a teac and the Teac sounded much better and the realistic eq started from 32 and the teac from 30 so thats why I asked!
For connecting one after another I asked because I saw a friend who did that and he had way too much bass but the sound was still clear!
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To the OP: Make sure you take care of other problems first such as speaker placement and getting rid of echos inside your room. Then use EQ very last. The less EQ you have to use, the better because of less distortion. Thats why putting 2 together is a bad idea
The best way to EQ is this: Use a parametric equalizer. It lets you specifiy exactly what frequency you want to adjust and the width of the adjustment. Graphic equalizers like your teac only have 10 different pre-determined frequencies. A parametric Equalizer is much more precise.
What you want to do is download a program called SineGen for Windows. Slide the frequencies up and down and listen for frequencies that get suddenly louder. Whatever frequencies get louder, you want to turn down on the EQ. Whatever frequencies are too quiet, raise on the EQ. You want every frequency to sound the same volume level if that makes sense.
It takes patience since the human hearing can hear 20,000 frequencies.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
I have an equalizer question! I see that there are equalizer that start form 30 frequency, from 31, 31.5 and most of the time 32! Is it true that the lower the number the better?
Those numbers correspond to the frequency that you can boost or reduce. Whether that first frequency is 30, 31, 31.5 or 32Hz makes very little difference. Those types of equalizers are more of a gizmo than anything. They most probably do more harm then good. Beside, if you want to be accurate you'll want to work with an SPL meter. A 10 band equaliser, as Sir TtT said, is not going to be able to flatten the whole frequency spectrum.
If you're system is mediocre, there's no harm in using an EQ. If you want something better, leave it out:)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
the realistic eq started from 32 and the teac from 30 so thats why I asked!
lol, I'm suprised you think you got an answer to that. I don't think anyone understood that part, that's why I've chimed in.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
Whether that first frequency is 30, 31, 31.5 or 32Hz makes very little difference.
You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. Here's a single frequency sweep from 30-39 hz. Each frequency lasts ten seconds. Try it out!
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.
Which is what I said no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EStat
Here's a single frequency sweep from 30-39 hz. Each frequency lasts ten seconds. Try it out!
Sorry, no full range speakers or subwoofer here:)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
Which is what I said no?
Yes. It was intended for the OP to determine for himself. There is also the possibility that he shares the same situation as you.
rw
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Thanks for all the answers! Thats why we are here to help each other!
I have everything kenwood home and I see that the best equalizer is GE-1100
What do you guys think, is it good to get them or not?
http://i50.tinypic.com/343jksh.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
I have everything kenwood home and I see that the best equalizer is GE-1100
How are you seeing the best is the GE-1100 ? by the low number? 16 hz? Id avoid an eq with depth and delay-time controls. It may be alright to EQ a mild peak or a dip here and there but that's it, anything more and your creating more problems
16 hz is kinda useless for music unless you have a lot of very warped records, then you can cut the lowest frequencies to keep your woofers under control.
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I meant that the best EQ Kenwood has made is the GE-1100! Do you know any better Kenwood EQ ???
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
I meant that the best EQ Kenwood has made is the GE-1100! Do you know any better Kenwood EQ ???
Ok, I see. No I don't know of any better Kenwood EQ though I never really looked for one either.
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Ok I looked, the Kenwood GE-7030 would be the one i'd buy if i had to buy a Kenwood...its a parametric.
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I have seen the GE-7030 but I never thought they will be better! Well I will start hunting for a good deal!
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If you really want a EQ that will really help your system you should try a receiver with Audussey EQ
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/m...solutions.html
In all of my years calibrating home theater systems, this is the most effective system I have ever used by far.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
I have seen the GE-7030 but I never thought they will be better! Well I will start hunting for a good deal!
Its a parametric eq which means you can alter the center frequency of each band of the eq...this gives it much more flexibility for frequency correction.
There are better and higher quality eq's out there but if you want to stay all Kenwood this is where I'd go. (GE-7030)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
If you really want a EQ that will really help your system you should try a receiver with Audussey EQ
http://www.audyssey.com/technology/m...solutions.html
In all of my years calibrating home theater systems, this is the most effective system I have ever used by far.
HATE to agree with sir talky about anything, but the Audyssey is a nice system,
even on my (reletively) cheap receiver(1,000$)
Not only does it set the levels but also "eq's" every speaker dynamically, which solves the problem of EQ on a 7.1 system.
Dont have mine on at the moment, preferring my music two channel straight, no chaser,
but the sound is very good with it.:1:
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Or a Rane Or an Ashly PEQ...
I picked up an Ashly 572 PEQ a few years ago and it is SUPERB! Each channel has 5 fully parametric bands plus low and hi shelving filters. Quality is excellent and it is a scalpel when it comes to fine tuning. Discontinued now, but can be found on pro audio sites, ebay, etc.
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Here it is for $350 on ebay!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ashly-PQX-572_W0...#ht_500wt_1182
I have never heard of this brand Ashly!
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The major problem with the Ashly setup is that it is XLR connected only. That is a problem with the majority of HT equipment out there, even though it is a better connection. You still have to measure the room carefully before using this kind of product. If you don't know what you are doing with this thing, you can make acoustical problems electrical and phase problems as well.
For most folks that do not have the proper measuring equipment, I would advise you to pick a system that does the work for you. The Audussey system only asks that you set up the microphones in the best places for viewing in your room, and it does all of the rest. The results are ear opening to say the least.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
I meant that the best EQ Kenwood has made is the GE-1100! Do you know any better Kenwood EQ ???
go with a soundshaper 2 if you want quallity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
I have an equalizer question! I see that there are equalizer that start form 30 frequency, from 31, 31.5 and most of the time 32! Is it true that the lower the number the better?
Here is another question! Is it good to connect 2 equalizers one after another?
http://i46.tinypic.com/67p5ef.jpg
if you're gonna go with two equilizers one after the other you're gonna need an amp with a preamp in the back of it.with your pre out and main in inputs.do not try to hook it up through you tape monitor inputs.you'l need to go out from your amp from your pre out into your first eq main in,then from the pre out of eq #1 to the main in of eq #2 then pre out of eq #2 back to the main in on your amp. it will work but if you want to do it but i'd recomend hooking up a reverb wth an eq instead of two eqs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoaster
if you're gonna go with two equilizers one after the other you're gonna need an amp with a preamp in the back of it.with your pre out and main in inputs.do not try to hook it up through you tape monitor inputs.you'l need to go out from your amp from your pre out into your first eq main in,then from the pre out of eq #1 to the main in of eq #2 then pre out of eq #2 back to the main in on your amp. it will work but if you want to do it but i'd recomend hooking up a reverb wth an eq instead of two eqs.
That is exactly how I was thinking of doing it but like the other people said it will make the sound worse with 2 equalizers so it is better to keep only one!
I have a preamp and amp! Everything I have is separates!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible
The major problem with the Ashly setup is that it is XLR connected only. That is a problem with the majority of HT equipment out there, even though it is a better connection. You still have to measure the room carefully before using this kind of product. If you don't know what you are doing with this thing, you can make acoustical problems electrical and phase problems as well.
For most folks that do not have the proper measuring equipment, I would advise you to pick a system that does the work for you. The Audussey system only asks that you set up the microphones in the best places for viewing in your room, and it does all of the rest. The results are ear opening to say the least.
The Ashly also has 1/4" inputs/outputs, common to pro-audio gear. Quality RCA to 1/4" connectors are available. I use this PEQ judiciously (my system requires a max of 3dB cut on any band, no boost anywhere) and the acoustical effect is stunning. Even though I have a full spectrum analyzer with computer analysis capabilities, I also trust my ears and quickly improved my 2-Ch audio system with minimal drama. It isn't hard or scary.
I'm not dissing the Audyssey system, nor have I used one. I'm just saying a high quality PEQ is a terrific piece of gear.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
That is exactly how I was thinking of doing it but like the other people said it will make the sound worse with 2 equalizers so it is better to keep only one!
I have a preamp and amp! Everything I have is separates!
I've GOT to ask this:
Why do you want (or need) TWO equalizers in your system?
:confused:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mijs
I've GOT to ask this:
Why do you want (or need) TWO equalizers in your system?
:confused:
i was thinking that if i have 2 eq it will improve the sound quality but i was wrong. I was just curious and thats why i asked. That is the purpose of the forum to ask questions and to share knowledge
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I think he wants two EQ's in attempt for even more bass/treble. His mission might be MAX SPL rather then HI-FI.
Just get an amp with lots of RMS watts if you want that.
edit: Basically, using EQ will only degrade the sound quality unless its done properly with a parametric EQ. But then again, what is your definition of sound quality? Some people like pumped up bass and treble but truth is a speaker sounds more ACCURATE without EQ (unless its done right). A speaker sounds LOUDER and more powerful with EQ. Its a tradeoff.
Are you looking for power or accuracy?
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that i like bass is true but i don't want to have so much that you can't stay in the room.
i was just curious like i said. I have eq and they improve the sound a lot and i was wondering how it will sound with 2 eq
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
that i like bass is true but i don't want to have so much that you can't stay in the room.
i was just curious like i said. I have eq and they improve the sound a lot and i was wondering how it will sound with 2 eq
Most people including myself use no EQ, no sound enhancers, no bass boosting, nothing. The reason for that is to try to get the most pure sound possible. When you add enhancers or boosters or EQ, it can make things sound very digital and fake, like processed and artifical. And sometimes EQ works good for one song but the next song is recorded differently so you have to re-EQ it. So many like me just dont use EQ at all.
If you notice that some stereos dont have EQ like a clock radio, TV, cheap boombox. Or most stereos are set with the EQ off by default when you open the box and plug it in brand new. Its basically the industry standard.
If you are looking to "spice" up the sound and fool around with EQ, effects, and enhancers, thats all personal prefrence. Add two EQ's if you want. Or you can use some of the Dolby enhancers and such. Just know that the more you alter the signal, the less it is to what was actually recorded.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakatabg
that i like bass is true but i don't want to have so much that you can't stay in the room.
i was just curious like i said. I have eq and they improve the sound a lot and i was wondering how it will sound with 2 eq
Got it.
I can relate to the "If some is good, more is better" philosophy, but not with EQs. : )
Good luck and have fun!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EYEdROP
Most people including myself use no EQ, no sound enhancers, no bass boosting, nothing. The reason for that is to try to get the most pure sound possible. When you add enhancers or boosters or EQ, it can make things sound very digital and fake, like processed and artifical. And sometimes EQ works good for one song but the next song is recorded differently so you have to re-EQ it. So many like me just dont use EQ at all.
You are not getting "pure" sound even if you don't use enhancements or electronic acoustical correction. Pure sound means that your walls, ceiling, and floor play no role in what you hear, the sound is completely neutral. That is not the case at all, as the room plays a vital role in what you hear. No speaker is immune to room related reflections that cause havoc with time and imaging(and frequency response to boot).
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If you notice that some stereos dont have EQ like a clock radio, TV, cheap boombox. Or most stereos are set with the EQ off by default when you open the box and plug it in brand new. Its basically the industry standard.
A clock radio, TV, and boomboxes have one thing in common - they all have small speakers relative to bookshelf or floor standing speakers. They do not have the frequency response, or the acoustical footprint of a regular speaker. Putting EQ in them is like putting tits on a male dog, it serves no purpose.
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If you are looking to "spice" up the sound and fool around with EQ, effects, and enhancers, thats all personal prefrence. Add two EQ's if you want. Or you can use some of the Dolby enhancers and such. Just know that the more you alter the signal, the less it is to what was actually recorded.
When you realize what listening rooms do to sound, then you run out and get a RTA and the necessary equalization to correct it. Avoiding EQ is not going to make your sound better, it will just make it less optimized for the room the speakers sit in.
All speakers that are sitting in four walls need some type of electrical correction applied to them, especially in the bass region where the room dominates what you hear.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EYEdROP
Most people including myself use no EQ, no sound enhancers, no bass boosting, nothing. The reason for that is to try to get the most pure sound possible. When you add enhancers or boosters or EQ, it can make things sound very digital and fake, like processed and artifical. And sometimes EQ works good for one song but the next song is recorded differently so you have to re-EQ it. So many like me just dont use EQ at all.
Interesting, and I appreciate the "purist" point of view. Here's what I've found:
1. Except perhaps for acoustic instruments in an anechoic chamber (or outdoors), "pure" sound is an illusion. Its color changes with every iteration of the recording and playback process. Your cartridge, CD player, speakers, and listening room all add or subtract something from the original sound. A quality PEQ can return balance to an acoustical system.
2. A purely analog PEQ like the Ashly does not contribute a hint of "digitalness" or "processed" sound to the playback.
3. Of course, it all depends on how obsessive you are, but I use pretty much the same settings for most quality recordings. Sure, there's occasionally an old CD or LP that's recorded so poorly it screams for drastic EQ cuts, but newer recordings are pretty good.
I know it's not in vogue to use eqs, but in the right hands, a good one is a wonderful thing.
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I agree the room has a huge affect on the sound. And yes, EQ can help with the room and bring balance back but ONLY if done properly with software and mics or with a good ear and sine sweeps. I use parametric EQ to tune the bass in my room because there are many suckouts and peak, which is typical in a domestic room. Eventually Id like to get some DRC unit or software.
Making a smiley face EQ like the OP is not a proper EQ.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EYEdROP
I use parametric EQ to tune the bass in my room because there are many suckouts and peak, which is typical in a domestic room.
Do you have any acoustical treatment in the room? I use 5 DIY bass traps to neutralize the bass. An EQ can't change a boomy room.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppachubby
Do you have any acoustical treatment in the room? I use 5 DIY bass traps to neutralize the bass. An EQ can't change a boomy room.
I have layers of bed foam and arc shaped diffusers placed around my walls and ceiling. This made a huge difference in the mids and highs. I spent alot of time placing the foam and diffusers correctly. But I dont have any sufficient bass traps. I tried to make a DIY bass trap with lots of bedfoam and fiberglass rolled up with chickenwire, but it did not make much of a difference.
Im gonna order some Owens 703 soon.
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Here's a great DIY recipe for a bass trap. Start with the corners of the room (4), and add a couple more if you still need to.
http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/traps/traps.html
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I just got Yamaha GE-60! Does anyone know if they are any good ?
http://i49.tinypic.com/2eyw70p.jpg
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