An elitest's viewpoint.

[Hyfi]

High End = High Income

Most of us dabble in Mid End and some at Entry Level High End. Very few on this board actually have High End systems. A $4K amp is nothing compared to the VAC top stereo amp at $39,900. High End Audio is for those who have the cash to blow, don't care that you can get similar cheaper and have no interest in DIY. They have MONEY. People with money do not shop at Wal-Mart or K-Mart even if they can get the same product cheaper because they don't want to admit you can.

Audio is no different than Watches, Cars, Suits, or anything you can think of. A $50 watch tells the same time as a $20k Rolex but a person with money won't be caught dead wearing the cheaper one.

I can remember when I was buying my Hafler gear back in the day. I would watch guys come into Soundex and drop $20k on a pc of gear. The next week they would be trading it in for $15k and buying something different for $30k.

Fremer's comment's don't really apply to most of us hear because A- we don't have that kind of cash, and B- we don't really have what they consider High End systems at Stereophile.

I stopped getting Stereophile many years ago for similar reasons. No real world gear reviewed and only cator to the people with big bucks to toss around.

I take no offense to the comments because they don't apply to me. My hobby is Audio, not High End Audio.

[Ajani]

High End = High Income

Most of us dabble in Mid End and some at Entry Level High End. Very few on this board actually have High End systems. A $4K amp is nothing compared to the VAC top stereo amp at $39,900. High End Audio is for those who have the cash to blow, don't care that you can get similar cheaper and have no interest in DIY. They have MONEY. People with money do not shop at Wal-Mart or K-Mart even if they can get the same product cheaper because they don't want to admit you can.

Audio is no different than Watches, Cars, Suits, or anything you can think of. A $50 watch tells the same time as a $20k Rolex but a person with money won't be caught dead wearing the cheaper one.

I can remember when I was buying my Hafler gear back in the day. I would watch guys come into Soundex and drop $20k on a pc of gear. The next week they would be trading it in for $15k and buying something different for $30k.

Fremer's comment's don't really apply to most of us hear because A- we don't have that kind of cash, and B- we don't really have what they consider High End systems at Stereophile.

I stopped getting Stereophile many years ago for similar reasons. No real world gear reviewed and only cator to the people with big bucks to toss around.

I take no offense to the comments because they don't apply to me. My hobby is Audio, not High End Audio.

I like to refer to High End Audio as Luxury Audio... Yes there are improvements - some in sound, others just in build quality and cosmetics, but the price you pay is extreme - so only the individual can determine whether a product is "worth" the money...

[Hyfi]

I like to refer to High End Audio as Luxury Audio... Yes there are improvements - some in sound, others just in build quality and cosmetics, but the price you pay is extreme - so only the individual can determine whether a product is "worth" the money...

Correct. And in most cases, only those with the money to blow will label it Worth The Money. Personally, to me, a $40K amp is not 38 times better than a $2K amp. Better, for sure. Looks, for sure. Build quality, for sure but the sound will not be 38 times better so to someone that does not have cash falling out of their pockets, it will not be worth it. To those with money like Fremer, maybe to them it is, but they could really just be fooling themselves.

[Jack in Wilmington]

I read the letters to the editor every month from readers complaining that Stereophile covers too much high end gear. I figured it was mainly the readers with low end gear that were doing the complaining. Now it turns out that some of the posters here are of that opinion. I looked at Nov. Stereophile to see the prices of the reviewed gear. Here is the gear in a nut shell.

1. Amtrans Passive Controler $2950
2. Epos Epic 2 Speakers $ 695
3. Haniwa Phono Pre $5000
4. Kimber Tonik Cables $ 80
5. Nordost Flatline Cables $ 157
6. Energy Connoisseur $ 269
7. Emotiva Power Amp $ 899
8. Resolution Audio CD/DAC $6000
9. Simaudio CD Player $8000
10. Leben Int Amp $3395
11. Leben Phono Pre $2695
12. Luxman Int Amp $5990
13. Quad Int. Amp $5999

There are some lower priced items that would fit in all our budgets and some of the others that really sound interesting could be had in a year on Audiogon for much less. That's why I continue to read Stereophile. That and the fact that the guys at my HiFi shop read it while they're waiting for a customer and you guys that have worked in that business know what I mean. It gives us something to talk about when I stop by.

[Ajani]

I read the letters to the editor every month from readers complaining that Stereophile covers too much high end gear. I figured it was mainly the readers with low end gear that were doing the complaining. Now it turns out that some of the posters here are of that opinion. I looked at Nov. Stereophile to see the prices of the reviewed gear. Here is the gear in a nut shell.

1. Amtrans Passive Controler $2950
2. Epos Epic 2 Speakers $ 695
3. Haniwa Phono Pre $5000
4. Kimber Tonik Cables $ 80
5. Nordost Flatline Cables $ 157
6. Energy Connoisseur $ 269
7. Emotiva Power Amp $ 899
8. Resolution Audio CD/DAC $6000
9. Simaudio CD Player $8000
10. Leben Int Amp $3395
11. Leben Phono Pre $2695
12. Luxman Int Amp $5990
13. Quad Int. Amp $5999

There are some lower priced items that would fit in all our budgets and some of the others that really sound interesting could be had in a year on Audiogon for much less. That's why I continue to read Stereophile. That and the fact that the guys at my HiFi shop read it while they're waiting for a customer and you guys that have worked in that business know what I mean. It gives us something to talk about when I stop by.

You do need to keep in mind that Stereophile has made a far more conscious effort in recent years to review more "affordable" gear... A few years back, the trend towards reviewing the luxurious and exotic was really spiraling out of control... Even the decision to have Stephen Mejas review inexpensive gear was likely part of the strategy to bring things back under control.

[JohnMichael]

Conclusions
Those who complain of the ever-increasing prices of high-performance audio gear need only look at the Music Reference RM-200 Mk.II. It provides high performance, high build quality, high reliability and I'm sure, great measurements-all at a low price, considering how much honest musical enjoyment it makes possible. And it's made in America.

It costs $4200. If that's your idea of "expensive," well regardless of what you can afford, You're in the wrong hobby. It has no blue LEDs, but you can't have everything.



Reading the conclusion I did not have the same reaction. I am curious what others think when they read the conclusion.

[RoyY51]

Conclusions
Those who complain of the ever-increasing prices of high-performance audio gear need only look at the Music Reference RM-200 Mk.II. It provides high performance, high build quality, high reliability and I'm sure, great measurements-all at a low price, considering how much honest musical enjoyment it makes possible. And it's made in America.

It costs $4200. If that's your idea of "expensive," well regardless of what you can afford, You're in the wrong hobby. It has no blue LEDs, but you can't have everything.



Reading the conclusion I did not have the same reaction. I am curious what others think when they read the conclusion.

My conclusion is still the same: if Michael Fremer thinks that I'm "in the wrong hobby" because I can't or won't spend $4200 on a single component, then he's not living in the same world as most of us.

If someone more technologically oriented than I were to post a poll asking if $4200 was an "expensive" amount to spend on one component, I think my assumption would be verified.

[JohnMichael]

I am quoting MF again "When the RM-200 was in the system, I wanted for nothing-and for $4,200, that's something.

In our hobby with some amps costing over $100,000 and he found a $4,200 amp satisfying. Compared to Ultra High End that amp is not expensive. I think it was a backhanded comment that if an audiophile thinks an amp of that quality is expensive wait until they hear the price of the top range amps.

[Feanor]

Conclusions
Those who complain of the ever-increasing prices of high-performance audio gear need only look at the Music Reference RM-200 Mk.II. It provides high performance, high build quality, high reliability and I'm sure, great measurements-all at a low price, considering how much honest musical enjoyment it makes possible. And it's made in America.

It costs $4200. If that's your idea of "expensive," well regardless of what you can afford, You're in the wrong hobby. It has no blue LEDs, but you can't have everything.

Reading the conclusion I did not have the same reaction. I am curious what others think when they read the conclusion.

What?!? My Class D Audio SDS-258 sounds great, is well made in American, cost <$600 -- and damn! it has blue LEDs and amber ones too. (BTW, adding the LEDs in my build cost me about $2.)

[Jack in Wilmington]

You do need to keep in mind that Stereophile has made a far more conscious effort in recent years to review more "affordable" gear... A few years back, the trend towards reviewing the luxurious and exotic was really spiraling out of control... Even the decision to have Stephen Mejas review inexpensive gear was likely part of the strategy to bring things back under control.

Oh Yea and I appreciate it. I really enjoy Stephen column. It has a little bit of human interest mixed with his review.

[StevenSurprenant]

Oh Yea and I appreciate it. I really enjoy Stephen column. It has a little bit of human interest mixed with his review.

Jack, I think I was at your shop back in the 90's. Did you have a pair of Avalon (I think) for about $70,000 running on spectral gear? Did you also carry Joesph Audio speakers? Wilmington Delaware?

I am quoting MF again "When the RM-200 was in the system, I wanted for nothing-and for $4,200, that's something.

$4,200 is doable if it really is as good as he says. I've spent about that much before, and while the amp was good, there was no magic in my system, no synergy I suppose.

Everyone has their panties in a knot but I didn't feel he was taking a personal jab at anyone. It was simply an expression to get a point across.

No doubt! I didn't take offense at him. My posts were aimed more at the high cost high end where, for the average person, the prices are way out of context with what you get for your money. If I had a great deal of disposable cash, the bling inherent in high priced gear would be acceptable. You know, we could be discussing cars, or even homes. I've seen people spend $40,000 on a car that is only slightly better (in some ways) than a $20,000 car and think the extra $20,000 is justified, but would think spending $10,000 on an audio system is purely a waste of money.

I have to tell you that I loved Stereophile magazine and I think it's a great mag. Every month it came, I dropped everything I was doing and read it from cover to cover, including all the ads. In fact, that is how I found all the stores that I visited. It was a dream catalog and who doesn't like to dream?

I will add this... Stereophile is a glamour magazine and and as such cannot be taken seriously by mortal men. There is no point for the average person to read it as a guide toward their quest of audio nirvana. As for thinking they are uppity about their craft, it matters not, because it's an illusion that they peddle, nothing less and nothing more.
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As for Fremers comment, "If that's your idea of "expensive" , well, regardless of what you can afford, you're in the wrong hobby."...

I'm not sure what he was implying, but I think what he is saying is that it is too good to pass up. He just used a poor choice of words. I'm an optimist...