Does "state of the art" matter?

[Ajani]

Seriously that is the only difference you hear between the Atom and the Studio 100 is that the 100 fills a larger room. If so - I get where you're coming from and I can't help you. the 100 will fill a larger room but it also has several more octaves and a better treble band. The 100V2. And frankly why not try better examples than mid-fi brands.

Yes it has nothing to do with experience or sound quality it is all about price level - which I guess is why I can buy $30 headphones and run it through my laptop and it's obviously just as good as your headphone rig - you just wasted all that extra money because it's all about price level. Oh wait - when you spend $2k it's about quality and much better sound but if someone spends more than you it's because they want to show off how much they spent?

Also regarding the Bose 901 - there is a lot of good tech in the original design - it could have really been something had they continued to make it better - they opted to make it cheaper using worse parts and spent all their money on marketing. It has sold to non audiophiles as a gimmick product just as most everything else sells as a gimmick product kind of like B&O. The thread is about audiophiles the vast majority of whom are talking about quality audio gear. It's a silly strawman argument like saying that the Big Mac has sold for 40+ years so it belongs in a discussion about fine dining restaurants.

1) I never said the ONLY difference between the Atom and Studio 100 was scale. I said it was the main difference... That point should be easy enough to understand...

2) No idea what you are babbling on about with the whole buying to show off thing... I've never claimed anything like that... perhaps you want to have an argument with Pix...

3) The Bose 901 is not a straw-man argument - it is valid based on the silly point you keep bringing up about how AN, etc are using FUGLY ancient designs, therefore it's somehow evidence they are better than the newer stuff... There are several brands continuing to produce FUGLY old gear (Klipsch's heritage line for example), but that doesn't mean they are better than all the new gear out there... Some persons and reviewers love the Klipschorn, others think it sounds like a PA system... Same applies to Sugden... Contrary to the way you carry on, not everyone loves Sudgen...

[RGA]

Some persons and reviewers love the Klipschorn, others think it sounds like a PA system... Same applies to Sugden... Contrary to the way you carry on, not everyone loves Sudgen...

Please link the reviewers who think the Sugden amps sound like PA systems - or the KHorn for that matter?

[Ajani]

Please link the reviewers who think the Sugden amps sound like PA systems - or the KHorn for that matter?

I like how you chose to interpret my comment... Rather than the obvious interpretation that not everyone likes the KHorn (which I've seen described by users as sounding like a PA system - don't think it was a reviewer though and frankly I don't intend to go scouring Google to look for that exact description of it either) or the Sugden, you intrepret it to be that reviewers described both the KHorn and Sugden as sounding like PA systems...

[RGA]

I like how you chose to interpret my comment... Rather than the obvious interpretation that not everyone likes the KHorn (which I've seen described by users as sounding like a PA system - don't think it was a reviewer though and frankly I don't intend to go scouring Google to look for that exact description of it either) or the Sugden, you intrepret it to be that reviewers described both the KHorn and Sugden as sounding like PA systems...

Yes and people love Big Macs but I don't necessarily trust their opinions on fine dining. I would trust Gordon Ramsey more than I would trust a guy who eats fast food 7 times a week. Just as I would trust someone who has good ears over some guy who says something on a forum. I have never read a negative Sugden A21a review. Granted some like it better than the newer Sugden A21SE but I have not heard the latter so I can't say if the older version is better.

As for the Khorn - lots of people blather opinions of all Klipsch and all horns based on one audition of one lower end Klipsch with some belief they all sound the same because they use horns. Regurgitating what they read on another forum by another poster.

I do not weight all opinions as equal - I weight stronger the opinions of those who have more experience and who to me have proven to possess good ears. Or in the case of food who have proven to have good taste buds. So when Ramsey can be blindfolded and eats a bunch of different things and can tell you what they are versus most of the trainees who can't then he has illustrated that he has superior taste buds. Having said that I get why people would not like the K-Horn.

The A21a in it's price range is pretty untouchable. There are other good amps one might like the flavour of, and the Phono stage of the A21a isn't very good - but if one buys an external phono or doesn't need it - can't see anyone complaining. For SS sound and not needing a lot of power - it's an end of the road product for an attractive price point.

[Ajani]

I do not weight all opinions as equal - I weight stronger the opinions of those who have more experience and who to me have proven to possess good ears.

Experience I can understand (even though we clearly disagree on what constitutes experience), but how pray tell is someone "proven to possess good ears"?

Does that mean they share your views on what sounds good?

Since I notice you consistently mention specific Stereophile reviewers (who share your opinions on AN and/or Sudgen) but straight out disregard just as/more experienced Stereophile reviewers (who don't share your opinions).

[RGA]

Experience I can understand (even though we clearly disagree on what constitutes experience), but how pray tell is someone "proven to possess good ears"?

Does that mean they share your views on what sounds good?

Since I notice you consistently mention specific Stereophile reviewers (who share your opinions on AN and/or Sudgen) but straight out disregard just as/more experienced Stereophile reviewers (who don't share your opinions).

Art Dudley is the most experienced listener at Stereophile. He was the editor/owner of Listener magazine.

It is not about the experience listeners who disagree with me. JA for instance prefers the lean presentation of speakers like JM Labs, Focal, Paradigm. But he also isn't a music guy in the sense that he is interested in sound more than music - this is easily seen in the fact that he doesn't have a vinyl rig. If it was about the music first and foremost he would have vinyl since so much music is on vinyl and not CD and a great many albums sound better on vinyl than CD. This is not to dump on CD but there are simply superior recordings on the vinyl format that were transferred to CD badly. CD is needed for the same reasons - lots of great music on CD not on vinyl - so again not dumping on CD but you should have both if it is about music.

And once again I don't have a problem with JA or MF having their opinion - it is based on hearing both technologies. It's also possible to like both technologies. I do as well but I am pickier on how to allocate on each and for what purpose.

Further, when something polarizes some reviewers I look beyond one magazine - maybe try that. You seem to put all your stock into one magazine. I don't. Especially when there is a known history.

I look at Soundstage, 6Moons, dagogo, enjoythemusic.com, Hi-Fi CHoice, What Hi-fi, Hi-fi News, Audiophile, TNT, audiofederation, Stereophile, Hi-fi Critic, UHF magazine, and a couple of others. There is pretty clear correlation of both subjective and blind level matched auditions on the stuff that I like. And that means it is very likely that most people are going to hear it the same way I do. And yes that doesn't mean everyone but a lot more reviewers from those magazines above are actually doling out their own cash for what I think is superior while a lot of the other stuff is getting a good review and no one buys - even though they're often much larger companies who are dedicated to certain products.

[Ajani]

Art Dudley is the most experienced listener at Stereophile. He was the editor/owner of Listener magazine.

It is not about the experience listeners who disagree with me. JA for instance prefers the lean presentation of speakers like JM Labs, Focal, Paradigm. But he also isn't a music guy in the sense that he is interested in sound more than music - this is easily seen in the fact that he doesn't have a vinyl rig. If it was about the music first and foremost he would have vinyl since so much music is on vinyl and not CD and a great many albums sound better on vinyl than CD. This is not to dump on CD but there are simply superior recordings on the vinyl format that were transferred to CD badly. CD is needed for the same reasons - lots of great music on CD not on vinyl - so again not dumping on CD but you should have both if it is about music.

And once again I don't have a problem with JA or MF having their opinion - it is based on hearing both technologies. It's also possible to like both technologies. I do as well but I am pickier on how to allocate on each and for what purpose.

So because you think Vinyl sounds better than CD, therefore JA isn't a music guy? Is it not possible that the music he prefers listening to is on CD and not vinyl? Or that he actually prefers the sound of CD?

Also interesting that your last paragraph is what I've been trying to get through your very thick skull for so long - all your endless preaching about what sounds great versus what only sounds good in a lab, blah blah blah is just OPINION. And clearly experienced audiophiles don't all share your opinion on what sounds best... What is the difficulty in accepting that fact?

My opinion on audiophilia is that we all need to stop listening to persons preach all manner of crap about what sounds best and just listen for ourselves and decide what we like... I don't hold any reviewer's opinion as Gold. The only opinion that matters is my own, since I have to live with the purchase... So I'm not going to buy a turntable and SET/HE rig because some arrogant reviewer preaches about how great it sounds... I'll buy it IF when I audition such a system it A) Sounds better than the other options I listen to & B) Meets my needs...