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  1. #26
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    Smile Oh, don't mind Florian.

    Quote Originally Posted by audio_dude
    Whats the big deal?!?

    well for one, they are damn well near the best speaker in the $200 range...

    and the centerpiece of my young system!
    Haven't you noticed? He is an abominable snob and has an evangelistic streak about his equipment. His is always the best and unless you convert to his perception of things you are not worthy and doomed to hi-fi hell.

    Apart from that, he's a good bloke and has some good ideas.

    Oh yes, almost forgot. My big mistake was the acoustimass bose speaker system when it first came out, and I was too young and inexperienced to know any better. I already had very good large speakers made by a small boutique manufacturer, but needed to move to a smaller room for a while. As a study system it was OK, but once I was able to move back to the main audio room and compared them directly to my other speaker (which by the way cost half the price of the bose) I was extremely upset that I had wasted my money. They now serve as rear surrounds in my son's room.
    Last edited by StanleyMuso; 08-27-2006 at 10:17 PM.

  2. #27
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyMuso
    Haven't you noticed? He is an abominable snob and has an evangelistic streak about his equipment. His is always the best and unless you convert to his perception of things you are not worthy and doomed to hi-fi hell.
    You hit the nail on the head.

    The Atoms are pretty good for the money, but of course they'll pale compared to more expensive speakers. If they didn't, then everyone would be ranting and raving about them. I've heard them and was impressed with what they do for the dollar. A friend uses Atoms and Titans in his home theater and it's quite nice for a very reasonable budget.

  3. #28
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Another gem to add to the impressed list.

    "Wharfedale Diamond 9.1"

    I am listening in my Study to these and they make beautiful noises. Can't fault them for the cost and they have well exceeded my expectations.

    Peace

    Bernd
    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  4. #29
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernd
    Another gem to add to the impressed list.
    Bernd
    Admittedly my experience with turntables is limited, but I heard a Music Hall mm-5 through some decidedly ordinary gear and was surprised at the fidelity for the dollars. I would imagine that I might be inviting some flaming, but for $550US plug-and-play it seemed like a no-brainer as an entry level unit.

    As an aside, I didn't really read that as Flo trouncing the Atoms, but he can handle that himself...

    Cheers
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  5. #30
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    No flaming, you're right!

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    Admittedly my experience with turntables is limited, but I heard a Music Hall mm-5 through some decidedly ordinary gear and was surprised at the fidelity for the dollars. I would imagine that I might be inviting some flaming, but for $550US plug-and-play it seemed like a no-brainer as an entry level unit.

    As an aside, I didn't really read that as Flo trouncing the Atoms, but he can handle that himself...

    Cheers
    A friend has the Pro-Ject equivalent, the 2.1. It's a good table, capable of being quite musical. It's biggest drawback is (was) the supplied cart - a bit boring, for lack of a better word.

    He recently upgraded to a Scout, so I just might scoff up ththe 2.1 on the cheap. I would have to find a good spot in the bedroom...hhmmm...

  6. #31
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Go for it Jimmy!

    As person forced by circumstance into moving every couple of years I have been apprehensive about taking the plunge. That said, there is such a huge catalogue of goodies that is unavailable on disc that I am tempted. Just more stuff for the movers to destroy...

    Cheers
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  7. #32
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    Anything by MacIntosh. Don't get me wrong, good sound, but at this price? All name, no game! They are built like tanks though.
    B & W speakers. Again, good but not great. At all their price points there are numerous speakers that sound much better. For me these speakers are always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
    Yamaha electronics. Once upon a time these were the best midrange priced equipment you could buy. Bought my cd player 5 years ago, still good but slipping. Now? I run away whenever I hear them!!
    Banf & Olufson. Best looking equipment equipment you can buy, but they sound like they came from a K-Mart blue light special!

    How about the most pleasant surprises?
    These would be mine.
    Technics turntables - Mass market that sounds this good? Built like tanks (older ones anyway). The wife doesn't scream about the price? How can you go wrong?
    Older JBL speakers - I'm talking 20 - 30 years ago. Tight bass. Surprising'll good at all types of music despite their reputation for the California sound (they defined it).
    B.I.C. - What's the big deal about automatic equalization from Yamaha, et al? BIC had this 25 years ago, albiet with a wire instead of wireless. A friend of mine had a true high end system: Rega turntable (top of the line), AdCom preamp, Audionics power amp, Vandersteen 2(x), ADS 1230 Monitors (for rock and roll). We're talking 5 G in 1980 dollars and the BIC equalizer made it sound like a 10 G systtem for a little over $150! Does anyone know where I can buy one?

  8. #33
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Music, I have to admit I share your feelings about B&W. Great stuff but there are so many other brands to explore.

  9. #34
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    I got me a pair of B&W 601 speakers and from what I listened to they just sounded the best. I checked out Dali, Wharfedale and JBL. I wish I listened to some Kefs as well, but I'm satisfied now. If I'd be going for a higher segment I'd have audited more speakers

  10. #35
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
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    Any horns at all and Lowther based speaker systems make me want to cut off my ears and run away. Piezo tweeters on most PA systems effect me the same way only worse. Small boxes with no bass and overly prominent highs make me want to get the dynamite.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
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    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  11. #36
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    We were just talking about that today...

    Quote Originally Posted by bobsticks
    As person forced by circumstance into moving every couple of years I have been apprehensive about taking the plunge. That said, there is such a huge catalogue of goodies that is unavailable on disc that I am tempted. Just more stuff for the movers to destroy...

    Cheers
    ..."moving", that is. It does indeed suck. I don't think that should be a reason not to get into vinyl... you could usually move that stuff yourself. Yeah, it's a bit sensitive, but keep the original box, blah, blah. I understand, though - it's another undertaking.

    Not sure what your primary music is, but Jazz is mine. There is something about Miles, for eg., on vinyl that the silver disc simply can't convey. I have a pretty cheap CDP, but I've heard him on BIG $$$ digital rigs - no thanks, still something missing.

    One of my local stores put a new Grado Sonata on an old V.P.I. table... amazing sound. Forgot the artist, but it was the cliche, smokey nightclub type of Jazz. You were THERE. The big Martin Logans and a stack of Audio Research tubes didn't hurt either, but like the store owner says: If it ain't there in the first place...

    I feel one should have a GOOD purveyor of vinyl to make it worthwhile... it's no fun buying $20 LPs online.

  12. #37
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Jc

    Well, I'm obviously in the process of talking myself into this.LOL

    I, too, like my jazz and have heard some spectacular things on vinyl. We'll see how it turns out. I've got a few other projects in the works, but ya never know. I am given to flights of fancy...

    Cheers
    So, I broke into the palace
    With a sponge and a rusty spanner
    She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
    I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

  13. #38
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    I think people often mistake overhyped/overrated for being synonymous with bad, which they are not.

  14. #39
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    My brother had some Nordost Blue Heaven cables hooked up. Personally, I thought they were quite good and sounded better than some kind of Kimber cable he had. Personally, I do not think I have ever owned a particular model that was crowned king of the pile and really was a duece in disguise. I have owned equipment that not always panned out the way it should have.

  15. #40
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    A couple spring to mind...

    1. I'd have to the say that my pair of nOrh 2.0's (?) did nothing for me. I sold em as soon as I could.

    2. Pioneer's firs "component video" DVD player. I forget the number, but it looked like ass, died 4 months into use (wouldn't even play CD's) and used some sort of algorithm to approximate true CV. I had to sue Pioneer to via the BBB to get a refund. Needless to say I wouldn't take another Pioneer Product if offered to me by the Almighty himself.

    Da Worfster

  16. #41
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    Hmmm. Disappointments? A few. Fortunately, most of them caught before I wrote the check.

    B&W CDM1SEs (actually any B&W) Press raves, but awful tweets, not cohesive
    Sonic Frontiers SF1: Mistaken for "tube gear"...boring, uninvolving
    Bryston 3BST: Bright, boomy, gone. New stuff, however, is phenomenal...they got it right
    Adcom 545II: Bright, lacking dynamics, stuck with for too long.
    Adcom GTP600: broke, goofed up, broke, sold
    Adcom 575 CD: Sounded bad, broke, fixed, sold
    VAC's original Avatar: Spanked by an SE EL34 amp at 1/4 the price
    JBL XPL-90: bright, not cohesive, too expensive.

    Surprises:

    VPI Scout: I expected "good", not "geat"
    Sutherland PHD: Scary, very scary
    Audiovector M1 Signatures: Just "right", musical, open, easy to drive
    Kimber 4tc: Never was a speaker wire guy, but this stuff is good.
    Audioprism Mantissa SE: Neutral, dynamic, open, and pretty.
    Castle Isis: Just something "right" about them
    KEF 1.4/2: My first hifi speaker crush.

    I could think of more, but it is bedtime.

    Space
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  17. #42
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio_dude
    Whats the big deal?!?

    well for one, they are damn well near the best speaker in the $200 range...

    and the centerpiece of my young system!

    Duuuuuude....You are being Very UnDude.

    Sorry couldnt help myself.

    If I remember correctly, you are 16 or 17 years old. I snooped at your system list and think you got some KickAssed system. Alot of us do what we can with limited budget=sub$10,000. YOu should be extrememly proud of how much enjoyment your system can deliever, and I think you are. I never mated my Atoms with a tank like Sansui integrated so we are both just speaking based on different experiences. Combination of my personal taste, Atoms, and Rotel didnt do it for me. I just never bought any statements like "Paradigm Atoms are the Product of the Year!!!!!' sort of nature.

    This reminds me, Grado SR-60.....
    You own this too, Dude. If I wanted to make my ears bleed, I would be throwing eggs at my sister like I did 20 years ago. If anyone has any experience with SR-60 with tube headamp go for it. To my ears, over-hyped is all.

    -JRA

  18. #43
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    Funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by spacedeckman
    Hmmm. Disappointments? A few. Fortunately, most of them caught before I wrote the check.

    B&W CDM1SEs (actually any B&W) Press raves, but awful tweets, not cohesive
    Bryston 3BST: Bright, boomy, gone. New stuff, however, is phenomenal...they got it right

    Space

    I've seen a few people complaining about lack of cohesiveness in the B&Ws. However, that has not been my experience. Perhaps they listen to them at too close a distance? I myself realised the quality of B&W when my son bought a pair of 601s for his bedroom. With the pair I bought, the tweets did sound harsh for a while, but now are very smooth. I have become a convert to the need for a burn in period. Oh, and careful positioning in the room.

    I agree with your Bryston comment - from specs I thought this particular unit would be ideal, but just could not get involved emotionally with it during a rather prolonged listening session. Don't know about the newer ones, because I haven't auditioned any.

    PS. Please don't think I'm going out of my way to defend B&W. I'm not. It's just that at the present moment I am happy with mine, but I know that for the money there are probably hundreds of others as good or better. The tragedy of a busy life and limited finances means that its hard to find them. When the time comes for an upgrade, I'll probably try something else, even perhaps Florian's great love.

  19. #44
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Alot of us do what we can with limited budget=sub$10,000.
    Haha I'd say that's not too terribly limited in the overall scope of things. Sub $1000 is definitely limited.

  20. #45
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    A couple of speakers immediately come to mind, spaced out about 20 years between listenings.

    Apogee Duetta - Hyped to no end by the audio press, and by the audiophile community at large back in the 80s. Also made appearances in interior design magazines and movies -- they were the audio jewelry of their day. Then when the store where my friend worked got them in their demo room, I gave listened to them multiple times, we tried multiple front end rigs and alignments, and in the end wondered what all the hype was all about. I found them uninvolving in every other demo I'd heard in other rooms with other front end rigs. They were fine with orchestral pieces, but throw amplified instrumentation and heavy percussion their way, and they just weren't up to the task. They have their merits and I can see their appeal for certain audiences, but in my listenings they did not measure up to the inordinate amount of hype that they received back in the mid-80s.

    Wilson Audio Sophia - Another company that gets plenty of mention today. Did an extended listening with a high end Theta pre/pro setup in an acoustically controlled room, and could not believe the amount of ringing and resonance that I was picking up with some of my demo sources. The midrange is otherwise refined for the most part, and these speakers have a very well balanced and extended low end, but at $12,000, they are not worth the money by any stretch. Very disappointing considering how much their speakers cost and how much positive press they get.

    Also the Sennheiser HD500 headphones -- just an abomination of a headphone design. Supposedly designed for rock music, electric jazz, and hip hop, but in the end all I get is a dark and dreary sound with boomy distorted bass at moderate volumes. Just leaves me scratching my head as to how a company with Sennheiser's stellar reputation would let something as ill-conceived as this get out the door.

    Well Woochifer we agree on all three almost to a tee -- (except I heard the Signature II version and it does not sound like it would have changed your mind much) - For rock music or anything with a pulse the speaker just didn't work for me. I was also not terribly convinced by the entire treble band with any music -- something about the tweeter just doesn't sound right.

    The Wilson if you recall I liked but at that time $16k Cad yeah it's a good speake but I've heard BETTER at $3000.00 and a similar looking speaker (perhaps similar design) but MUCH better sound can be had from the Gershman Acoustics X1-Sub-1 Combination for around $4,500.00Cad.

    And I heard a set of those Headphones here in Korea HD 500 and it boggles my mind how that could have been made by Sennheiser. I do no know how much they cost mind you so I will temper my comments but I have heard better for $50.00 at Radio Shack from no namers -- or at elast as good. Sennheiser is a little strange because I never liked the 590 - it was supposed to replace the 580 years ago -- it costs more than the 580 and it just does not cut it. The 580 and 600 are all day listenable -- not necessarily exciting to listen to all the time but they never annoy you -- and that's not a bad first step in the right direction. Living in Korea these 600s are getting a ton of work being the mainsystem again and they get the job done well. The 500 would make me stab my eye with a pen knife.

  21. #46
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyMuso
    I've seen a few people complaining about lack of cohesiveness in the B&Ws. However, that has not been my experience. Perhaps they listen to them at too close a distance? I myself realised the quality of B&W when my son bought a pair of 601s for his bedroom. With the pair I bought, the tweets did sound harsh for a while, but now are very smooth. I have become a convert to the need for a burn in period. Oh, and careful positioning in the room.
    I don't think the 600 series is nearly as problematic as the 700 series. Back in the day before the 700 series was the CDM series and the CDM 2 was the entry standmount with the CDM 1SE being the upper standmount. The main difference was $600.00 more for the latter - a sexier box and tweeter on top. I liked em both but the CDM 2SE was far more enjoyable to listen to and had less prominance in the treble (which was more a lack of integrtion). I personally feel B&W is going in the wrong direction all the way back to the Matrix series -- they have gone to sexy looks and sacrifice sound quality. The 600 series is not perfect and it has some issues but it is good bang for the buck and hangs in with most everything else I've heard in the price range. The 700 series offers marginal improvements in some areas and outright downgrades in other areas and costs you a PILE more money.

  22. #47
    M.P.S.E /AES/SMPTE member Sir Terrence the Terrible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
    Any horns at all and Lowther based speaker systems make me want to cut off my ears and run away. Piezo tweeters on most PA systems effect me the same way only worse. Small boxes with no bass and overly prominent highs make me want to get the dynamite.
    This is painting a picture with a street sweeper. Not all horns are built alike, just like not EVERY PA speaker sounds horrible. I have to agree with you on the Lowther horn speaker, but my speakers which are horn hybrids do not exibit the cupped sound quality, screechy highs or lack of bass that dogs most horn designs. The new Klipschorn nor the new reference line of Klipsch sounds this way either. Horns have really evolved over the last 5 years now that more work has been done to engineer them properly.
    Sir Terrence

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  23. #48
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Beauty or Beast?

  24. #49
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo


    Beauty or Beast?
    appearance wise?? Beast.

  25. #50
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    New Forum?

    Given the huge differences in budget maybe we need to seperate all future forums into price sub-forums, with one being "Hi-Fi your wife doesn't kill you for buying because it cost more than a new beemer"

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