Bose is Amazing!!!!

[Resident Loser]

...it's all just so much Bose b!tchin'...in my limited experience with the brave new world of new-fangled, too-lazy-to-get-of-my-@$$ electronics, many units have any number of features/settings/options which can be accessed ONLY via it's remote...the folks in Framingham don't have THAT market cornered...face it, given their orientation, market research probably indicated the direction they chose to take, Bose owners bein' what they are...and since no self-respecting audiophile would be caught dead with Bose, what's the big issue other than grist for the mill...

BTW, a quick look at the owners manual via their site, reveals it does have a "snooze" feature(which can be customized to suit the individual), it can wake you up to either a radio station or a specific CD track and, after a two minute call to Bose Customer Support, a replacement remote(which I have yet to lose---unless my wife puts it where it doesn't belong) is all of ten bucks! Horrors! the pain!...the expense!...if you buy the unit, get a second remote as back-up if you're that paranoid about imminent failure or loss...and out of curiosoty, just how many remotes have YOU had to replace...my score: zero, maybe I'm just lucky and the law of averages will finally catch up to me.

The only problem is the five bills it cost's...for some folks that's no biggie...

jimHJJ(...Bose is no good, and Polk sold out, and NAD ain't what it used to be...)

[Woochifer]

...it's all just so much Bose b!tchin'...in my limited experience with the brave new world of new-fangled, too-lazy-to-get-of-my-@$$ electronics, many units have any number of features/settings/options which can be accessed ONLY via it's remote...the folks in Framingham don't have THAT market cornered...face it, given their orientation, market research probably indicated the direction they chose to take, Bose owners bein' what they are...and since no self-respecting audiophile would be caught dead with Bose, what's the big issue other than grist for the mill...

Your limited experience seems to have left out the fact that clock radios and home theater systems are typically operated differently, and that their form factors follow different functions. A clock radio (which is what the Wave radio is) is mostly operated within arm's reach, a home theater system sits several feet from you. What you can easily reach with your hand without getting up, you operate with buttons on the unit. What you cannot reach with your hand without getting up, you operate with a remote. Why do you think all car stereos have buttons on the panel?

You're also making an awful lot of assumptions here about Bose's "market research". I give them credit for carving out some successful market niches for themselves by creating simple "plug and play" products, but this is one case where I think they simply outsmarted themselves.

Why are we commenting on this? Because Bose is advertising the thing night and day and none of us can get away from the freaking thing. As I type this, there's Wave radio ad right in the sidebar ------------------------->

"Performance: Everyone Can Recognize
Simplicity: Everyone Can Appreciate
Elegance: That Speaks for Itself"

BTW, a quick look at the owners manual via their site, reveals it does have a "snooze" feature(which can be customized to suit the individual), it can wake you up to either a radio station or a specific CD track and, after a two minute call to Bose Customer Support, a replacement remote(which I have yet to lose---unless my wife puts it where it doesn't belong) is all of ten bucks! Horrors! the pain!...the expense!...if you buy the unit, get a second remote as back-up if you're that paranoid about imminent failure or loss...and out of curiosoty, just how many remotes have YOU had to replace...my score: zero, maybe I'm just lucky and the law of averages will finally catch up to me.

Yeah, a dinky snooze button that sits on that matchbox sized remote. I don't know about you, but in the morning I'm rarely in a state of mind where I want to go fumbling around for a remote to turn the alarm off. A $500 alarm clock without a big fat easy to find snooze button? Forget that!

Also, how many of your other remotes are as small as the one that comes with that Wave radio? That Bose remote is small enough to drop down a vent hole or get sucked into a vacuum. I haven't lost any remotes recently, then again all of them are large enough for me to easily locate and not get dropped into a duct or vacuum cleaner. the only one I ever lost was a similarly diminutive sized one that came with a portable CD player. Took less than a month before that thing went byebye.

[Resident Loser]

...how to approach this?...well, here goes...

"...Your limited experience seems to have left out the fact that clock radios and home theater systems are typically operated differently..."

Gee golly wilikers, no?...really?...fancy that!!!...having never seen the commercial and/or without any familiarity with the radio's said purpose, the only folks I have ever seen refer to it as a "clock radio"(with all that it infers) are the dyed-in-the-wool Bose bashers. If I may quote from the owners manual(available for your perusal @ the Bose website), in addition to a few other placement guidelines, advises:

"To enjoy maximum performance, place your Wave Music System across the room from where you will be listening"

Doesn't sound like the mfr. expects the unit to be viewed as a clock radio(in the traditional knock-over-the-lamp-and-phone-to-shut-the-d@mn-thing-off manner)...There isn't any room for it to be sitting on my nightstand, so it's up on the shelf, out of harms way...with controls that can only be reached with a step stool. Buttons, we don' need no stinkin' buttons...

'...You're also making an awful lot of assumptions here about Bose's "market research"...)

Which is why I used the word "probably"...but given my scenario AND the placement recs, it seems to have a consistent ring of that probability...just an edumacated guess...

"...Because Bose is advertising the thing night and day and none of us can get away from the freaking thing..."

Well, pish-tosh...there are any number of things I find patently offensive, that creep into my conciousness, uninvited, via various media...we all have our crosses to bear...I simply hit "mute" or change channels...good thing I have a remote handy...

"...a dinky snooze button that sits on that matchbox sized remote...fumbling around for a remote..."

The remote is the size of a credit card and about as thick as three to five of 'em...it's shape(thickness-wise)easily tells you which way is up, regardless of whatever shape you're in AND the position of the required button is pretty easy to remember after about the second or third use...of course, YMMV...AND it has hit the floor with no tragic consequences...plus no broken lamps, etc. As I said, as long as my wife puts it where it belongs, finding and using it doesn't really tax my abilities...face down in the pillow and such...

"...That Bose remote is small enough to drop down a vent hole or get sucked into a vacuum..."

Well, I suppose...but, if you have holes big enough to drop the remote into, the size of the thing wouldn't be MY chief worry...with holes THAT big, I suppose another "possibility" is for a Venezuelan fruit bat to fly in and carry it off mistaking it for the odd block of guava paste...it could happen!!!...and I don't know about you, but I rarely use my shop vac with it's 4in. diameter hose to "tidy" the bedroom...or living room for that matter...

jimHJJ(...still seems like much ado about nothing...)

[nightflier]

We're all forgetting the first rule of technology: If someone has paid 5 bills for a techy gizmo (in this case the Wave/Clock radio), then they want to believe that they didn't get ripped off. How many of us have ever railed against a new toy we just started playing with? I didn't think so. Only when a better toy comes along, do we become critical.

I just bought a new car, and to me that's the most beutifull piece of engineering I ever owned. But once a new design of the same model comes out, I'll be a little less enthusiastic. When Consumer Reports bashes it, I'll be even more vexed. Once its paint starts fading, I'll be looking at new cars, and when I finally sell it, it may be the worst car I ever drove. It's just the way we talk about the toys we spend our hard-earned dollars on.

If I had plunked down $500 for a Wave/Clock radio, I would defend it in these forums 'til my fingers bled. The fact is, we're not going to convince ResLoser that he got ripped off. If we can wait a few months, he might come back & tell us so himself when he looses that remote, or a in a few years when the thing craps out. In my opinion, its just a hunk of plastic parts, no different than all the other Wallmart crap that is built by slave labor and wafts across the ocean to rip us off and polute our landfills a few years later.

But guess what folks, I wouldn't know that unless I had also bought something like that. I can still remember my first JVC boombox monstrosity that I bought after a year of paper deliveries and car washes. I loved that sucker and it was the worst sounding radio/tape player I ever bought. Unfortunately, it would not be the last. Who hasn't bought a Hyundai Excel (for me, the engine blew up in my face on the freeway), a Ford Festiva (transmission died in a year), Realistic clock radio (started smoking), Fisher CD player (had to break it open to get my CD out), and Philips speakers (paper cones so thin they were almost see-through).

So yes, Bose is overpriced, sub-par, manufactured in less honorable ways, and marketed extremely well. But you won't hear that from ResLoser, any less that we are likely to hear anyone else knock their latest acquisition. And Yes, I love my new Polk Monitor 60's, so bring it on.

(OK, everyone, in an orderly fashion, single file, one at a time, starting with ResLoser...)

[Resident Loser]

...never "took" or was deleted or whatever so...

I have an older non-CD unit which cost me zip...nada...zilch...zero...won it in a free raffle from a local retailer(yeah, I know second prize was two of 'em)...works pretty good especially since I added a GPX portable CDP which cost $7.50(after mail-in rebate)...would I buy one?...dunno...5bux is a tough nut to crack and I'd rather have a DeWalt 12" compound-bevel, sliding miter saw for another $100...

I'm not defending the company or it's products and practices, they seem to have happy customers and fill whatever niche they apply themselves to...my main complaint is that it's just always open season on Bose...and some of those complaints seem steeped in ignorance...at least when I go off on a, er...shall we say bit of "audiophile" hoo-haa, I have the common decency to at least familiarize myself with the product so I can use the mfrs. own words and claims in my attempt to undermine it...most of the Bose bashing seems to be just so much sour grapes with little or no substance to back it up...

Sooo...as long as it's a public forum, people can say whatever they want, within reason of course, and I will respond as I see fit, particularly when I can impeach the credibility of of those simply making opinionated statements.

jimHJJ(...and so it goes...)

[woodman]

... I'm not defending the company or it's products and practices, they seem to have happy customers and fill whatever niche they apply themselves to...my main complaint is that it's just always open season on Bose...and some of those complaints seem steeped in ignorance...

... people can say whatever they want, within reason of course, and I will respond as I see fit, particularly when I can impeach the credibility of of those simply making opinionated statements.

jimHJJ(...and so it goes...)

Here's an "opinionated statement" for you. Contrary to what others feel about Bose and why they deserve to be unmercifully "bashed" - that their products are way overpriced, under-performers, my Bose-bashing has to do with their complete lack of business ethics and morals. To me, they epitomize the very worst aspect of American capitalism ... the dogged pursuit of maximum profits at the expense of everything and everyone else. The unscrupulous business practices that they employ are beneath contempt in my book ... they should eat sh!t and die!

So ... "Bose is Amazing"? They sure as hell are. Amazingly corrupt, that is.

[Resident Loser]

...with all due respect, let's play like we play the cable game...

What proof do you have? Anything objective?, facts?, figures?...heck, I'm all ears...show me...or is it all subjective and anecdotal in nature?

jimHJJ(...jus' wunnerin'...)

[Woochifer]

I'm not defending the company or it's products and practices, they seem to have happy customers and fill whatever niche they apply themselves to...my main complaint is that it's just always open season on Bose...and some of those complaints seem steeped in ignorance...at least when I go off on a, er...shall we say bit of "audiophile" hoo-haa, I have the common decency to at least familiarize myself with the product so I can use the mfrs. own words and claims in my attempt to undermine it...most of the Bose bashing seems to be just so much sour grapes with little or no substance to back it up...

Quite the contrary, you get a lot of Bose bashing on audio forums precisely because so many people HAVE first hand experience with Bose products and enough knowledge of what else is available in the market to assess how Bose stacks up against the competition. It's easy enough to find Bose products in stores, or listen to them when visiting other people's homes, so it's not like people chime in out of ignorance. Some of the most virulent posts I've seen come from people who have previously owned Bose products.

My own experience with the Wave radios has been through store demos, listening to them on a friend's kitchen counter, and at hotels (many of which use the Wave radios as bedside clocks). I've never trashed them for being a lousy product, because they're not. But, for $350 and now $500 for the new buttonless CD version, they simply offer poor value, especially compared to competing products I've heard like the Cambridge Soundworks radios (which BTW come with both a remote AND front panel buttons). Frankly, the reason why this thread came about is because Bose normally does very well with matching the form with the function for consumers. This new Wave radio just seems like an odd misstep from them, given that making things simple and functional is normally Bose's strength.

Personally, I've got no sour grapes because I've never bought anything from them (I did inherit a pair of 301s that I used as surround speakers for a couple of years). The sourest grapes I've seen have come from people who paid big bucks for a Lifestyle or Acoustimass system and later found that they need to buy a whole new system if they want to upgrade.

Sooo...as long as it's a public forum, people can say whatever they want, within reason of course, and I will respond as I see fit, particularly when I can impeach the credibility of of those simply making opinionated statements.

jimHJJ(...and so it goes...)

We're ALL making opinionated statements here. If your whole purpose for posting has to do with "impeaching" people's credibility, then I wonder what that has to do with the "common decency" that you talked about earlier.

[Resident Loser]

...I have yet to hear any of the Bose products produce their full potential even in a Bose store...a lot of the carping simply seems yada, yada, yada, Bose is bad...so quite the contrary to yours, IMO, it's jump on the bandwagon and have a bash...

Pardon the tangent but, it's been said before and I tend to agree, that applying the same listening parameters to direct radiators and nearly all Bose loudspeakers is not going to tell the whole story.

That quite the contrary to mass "audiophile" opinion, the Acoustimass stuff seems perfectly suitable to HT( which is an abomination of and by itself), ...in fact my first exposure to it was in a PC Richard where they were playing the Eagles "When Hell Freezes Over" DVD, seemed fine to me...I was so impressed, that it was the first disc I bought when I finally got a DVD player(another freebie), which, by-the-by, just plays through my tee-vee...Was it the disc or was it the playback system? I think a little of both...although my reference system has an incredible bottom end and all the other required attributes, the Bose seemed to do a good job IMO. Add simple hook-up and high scores in the WAF category...that's enough for some.

Again, the Wave products couldn't be simpler, and in the right circumstances that's all one may need...and yes, you pay for convenience, it's factored into the price, along with the ad costs...just like prescription drugs and a host of other things...I mean people love ads that congratulate their "good taste" and all...and they love thinking what they own is the "best"...how do else do you account for all the morons running around with their Gucci, Pucci-knock-offs, who can't wait to get to the next outlet mall to buy sub-par, name brand, made-specifically-for-the-outlet-mall goods?

As far as upgrade-ability...that segment of the market most likely doesn't take that into consideration...to repeat, plug'n'play. If they trade-up every year in the car department, they'll probably do it in the stereo/HT one also...Any one who has intentions of using a "building block" approach to their system oughta' know better...if they don't, shame on them...caveat emptor and I have no problem with anyone tellin' those folks the realities involved at the outset...

Finally, to put things into proper perspective, the "common decency" of gathering information about an issue, goes hand-in-hand with "impeaching" the credibility of anyone who profers non-issues...like eutectic solders and Teflon coatings or nit-piks the cost of a replacement remote.

jimHJJ(...I much prefer being informed...)

[Worf101]

...never "took" or was deleted or whatever so...

I have an older non-CD unit which cost me zip...nada...zilch...zero...won it in a free raffle from a local retailer(yeah, I know second prize was two of 'em)...works pretty good especially since I added a GPX portable CDP which cost $7.50(after mail-in rebate)...would I buy one?...dunno...5bux is a tough nut to crack and I'd rather have a DeWalt 12" compound-bevel, sliding miter saw for another $100...

I'm not defending the company or it's products and practices, they seem to have happy customers and fill whatever niche they apply themselves to...my main complaint is that it's just always open season on Bose...and some of those complaints seem steeped in ignorance...at least when I go off on a, er...shall we say bit of "audiophile" hoo-haa, I have the common decency to at least familiarize myself with the product so I can use the mfrs. own words and claims in my attempt to undermine it...most of the Bose bashing seems to be just so much sour grapes with little or no substance to back it up...

Sooo...as long as it's a public forum, people can say whatever they want, within reason of course, and I will respond as I see fit, particularly when I can impeach the credibility of of those simply making opinionated statements.

jimHJJ(...and so it goes...)

First of all I defy you to read my posts over the last 5 years I've been here and show me statements of "audiophile hoo-haa".

Second, I've plenty of experience with the Bose Wave Radio and other systems, mostly from trying to get the damn things fixed, particularly the Accoustimass system. There's a free "Fender Guitar" wave radio sitting in my basement that I got from my guitar player who owns a music store and got it and several other's as freebies. I don't use it because the boombox in the basement SOUNDS BETTER!!!!

[Resident Loser]

...replace your dilithium crystals and switch to threaded mode...I think you'll see I was responding directly to Nightflier...

The general part of my post re: familiarizing myself with the facts to do battle against the "audiophile hoo-haa" promoters was just that..."general"...everything from wire that went into space to revealing the true purpose of eutectic solders, IEC connectors and CAT5, Teflon coated wire...If it now extends to what seems to be conjecture and/or hearsay from Bose bashers, so be it! So many balloons and me with my little pin, what's a boy to do?

jimHJJ(...pop, pop, pop, pop...say...isn't that from Die Zauberflote?...)

[Woochifer]

...how to approach this?...well, here goes...

"...Your limited experience seems to have left out the fact that clock radios and home theater systems are typically operated differently..."

Gee golly wilikers, no?...really?...fancy that!!!...having never seen the commercial and/or without any familiarity with the radio's said purpose, the only folks I have ever seen refer to it as a "clock radio"(with all that it infers) are the dyed-in-the-wool Bose bashers. If I may quote from the owners manual(available for your perusal @ the Bose website), in addition to a few other placement guidelines, advises:

"To enjoy maximum performance, place your Wave Music System across the room from where you will be listening"

Doesn't sound like the mfr. expects the unit to be viewed as a clock radio(in the traditional knock-over-the-lamp-and-phone-to-shut-the-d@mn-thing-off manner)...There isn't any room for it to be sitting on my nightstand, so it's up on the shelf, out of harms way...with controls that can only be reached with a step stool. Buttons, we don' need no stinkin' buttons...

If they expect this thing to be placed across the room like an full size audio system, then they really need to poll more people who buy those things. I don't personally know anyone who listens to a Wave radio while sitting across the room. People I know who use those things use them as a desktop radio or as an alarm clock in their bedroom. If Bose had not intended for people to use it as an alarm clock, then why would they include the alarm function AND a snooze function? If they really intend for it to function solely as a music system, then why not eliminate the clock and alarm functions along with the buttons? My receiver and boom box don't have a clock or an alarm.

Who do you know of that uses a wireless remote for any device that's within arm's reach? If you think it's smart design for a device used in this manner to come with no buttons, then by all means enjoy yourself!

Every review of the old Wave radio I ever read referred to it as a clock radio or as a tabletop radio. I mean, after all that thing displayed the time on the front panel and had a bunch of buttons on the top of the unit, one of which was a snooze button. Gosh, Bose eliminates the buttons and instantly it's a "music system" and not a "clock radio"! Lots of semantics, but not a whole lotta substance. I guess everybody from the old Stereo Review to What Hi-Fi are all just Bose bashers because they dare to say "clock radio"!

The remote is the size of a credit card and about as thick as three to five of 'em...it's shape(thickness-wise)easily tells you which way is up, regardless of whatever shape you're in AND the position of the required button is pretty easy to remember after about the second or third use...of course, YMMV...AND it has hit the floor with no tragic consequences...plus no broken lamps, etc. As I said, as long as my wife puts it where it belongs, finding and using it doesn't really tax my abilities...face down in the pillow and such...

Again, why even bother with a remote, when a button serves that function better from within arm's reach? Seems like designers gone amuck, and forgetting that form needs to follow function. If you feel the aesthetics trump the functionality, then you're obviously their target customer.

Well, I suppose...but, if you have holes big enough to drop the remote into, the size of the thing wouldn't be MY chief worry...with holes THAT big, I suppose another "possibility" is for a Venezuelan fruit bat to fly in and carry it off mistaking it for the odd block of guava paste...it could happen!!!...and I don't know about you, but I rarely use my shop vac with it's 4in. diameter hose to "tidy" the bedroom...or living room for that matter...

jimHJJ(...still seems like much ado about nothing...)

Plenty of homes have the ventilation ducts running through the floor. I used to live in a place like that, and things that would fall into the vents included coins, keys, credit cards, watches, etc. A dinky remote would easily fit as well. If you got issues with Venezuelan fruit bats, then you should hire an exterminator.

[Resident Loser]

...and at the risk of repeating myself, my particular situation places the unit on a shelf that allows it to be situated as per placement guidelines...and it sounds quite good in the process. To reiterate what I have previously stated, if you just plunk it down any ol' place, performance will suffer and while it's not "across" it certainly is beyond "arm's reach"...just at a 90degree angle, not a 180...

Alarms and sooze? I recently purchased an Onkyo MC35TECH mini-system to play with, and it has alarms and timers of all sorts...it consists of a receiver and a three-disc CDP and two, reasonably accurate, bass-reflex loudspeakers...it's considered a stereo...does it outperform the Wave?...well, yes and no...obviously having two loudspeakers I can juggle, gives it a better image and sounstage, but...it's a bigger footprint which just won't fit were the Bose goes...and given the Wave's positioning, relative to my listening position, image isn't a problem...so it's a series of trade-offs...plug'n'play simplicity...I'm sure that comes into play more often than not...dorm rooms, small offices...folks who couldn't be bothered or are technically challenged...again aimed at a market, pure an simple...

And perhaps, in a rethink of their marketing strategy, the greedy, slimey, corrupt, world dominating gorilla, decided to remove the onus of "clock radio" by simply removing those buttons...furthermore once you integrate other functions(i.e. a CDP) it does become a "system" by the very definiton of the word...I mean they still sell a Wave Radio in addition to it...

As an addendum, they have this wonderful product available to help preclude dropping things into the monstrously gaping holes of floor vents...it's called screening...

jimHJJ(...yeah, that's the ticket...)