"Best" Processor 2.5-3.5k???

[Mr Peabody]

There are two places the term "pass through" or "bypass" is used. One is in receivers were the feature lets your analog signals "bypass" all the HT decoding and circuits. The next is found on stereo integrated and pre amps. This feature lets you run your front main preamp outs of a HT receiver or processor into them. So the stereo system runs the front mains and the receiver runs the center and surrounds. This is probably what you are wanting to do. You hook the stereo preamp to the 2 channels of your Mac running the main L/R and then the pre outs of the receiver into the "bypass" of the stereo preamp When watching movies the preamp would be on but not effectively active in the loop.

Like I was telling Blackraven the only 2 manufacturers I know off the top of my head that for sure have this feature is Conrad Johnson and Krell. The CJ would be a beautiful match with your system but I don't know how you'd feel about burning a tube while you watch a movie. I'd have some reservations as to the Mac/Krell synergy but you never know. There are others that offer the feature I just don't know who else at this point.

BTW, I enjoyed your post. Nothing like a good trip to the hi fi shop. Well, unless maybe we got to bring something home.

[musicman1999]

Bobsticks

Nice review, btw the Anthem Avm-50 and the Statement series also carry a Gennum video processor, which was described to me as "broadcast quality". Supposed to be very good.

bill

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir T

Can you elaborate on those high def audio releases, my impressions were that we were some time away from those.
When you say 2 channel cd sound better over HDMI what are you comparing it to, do you mean compared to analog or coax? I would think such a comparison would be hardware dependent.

bill

Bill,
To answer your questions. These new High def music releases are designed specifically for multichannel application(no repurposing stereo content). The first three titles on HD DVD are experimental synth based mood music released in 24/96khz Dts HD MA in 7.1.

I know that there is music coming to bluray disc because a good friend who is a audio mixer told me that his studio has been commissioned to mix three audio blurays for release sometime this year. From what I understand, this will not be experimental music, but classical music already mixed for multichannel. The Sony insider at bluray.com also said that there is a possibility of some previously released SACD will also end up on bluray disc. The plan is to exploit Bluray disc fully and in a way that could never be accomplished with DVD-A ties with DVD-V

When I did my comparison, I level matched the optical, coaxial and HDMI inputs. I did not compare analog outputs. Consistantly the HDMI input offered a much smoother output, less harsh, and exibited a slightly better delineated soundfield with a little more air between instruments. I really didn't matter what recording I put on. I do not have a technical explaination, but the results were definately repeatable.

[Mr Peabody]

Sir T, wouldn't the improved sound via HDMI be explained by that signal being uncompressed PCM vs the other two being bitstream? There wouldn't be much advantage to BR if the HDMI was just a bitstream. And, to take advantage of the PCM your receiver/processor would have to be able to accept such a signal. There may be some difference between MC analog and HDMI due to variables in cables and such but both are converted by the BR player. NO receiver/processor is capable of decoding HD audio bitstream, and on the odd chance I was wrong, the decoding would be useless as no disc has yet been encoded to allow the bitstream to bypass the BR player's internal DAC's. I get the impression that the industry is trying to push back to decoding being done in the player rather than receivers.

[musicman1999]

Sir T

While i am not a big fan of synth music but i will look for those Blu discs when they come.

bill

[bobsticks]

Thanks for the specifics. It seems that I could potentially have the best of both worlds, being able to utilize HDMI for the modern, digital and hi-rez formats and still do a little old school utilizing the HT passthrough. Interesting.

I have a source for Krell gear too, so that could result in an interesting home demo...although it doesn't even sound good on paper. Either way there should be a few options and I'm excited about the idea of getting some strong sound in both 2-channel and MC.

Having done a fair amount of research on the net, it seems as if alot of folks other than serious gearheads aren't really opting for hi-end processors at the moment. General consensus is that there aren'tt a whole lot of units out there short of megabuck megaboxes that do the do. A point that I always remind myself is that I hardly live in an anechoic chamber. My room presents a myriad of challenges that have me convinced that, at least in this setting, one of the big boys would be wasted effort.

As an aside, does anyone know how HT bypass differs form a Tape Loop. I mean, is there any technical difference? There seems to be a lot of disagreement on this topic and I was wondering if anyone had tried a variety of untis or had spoken with an authority on the subject.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir T, wouldn't the improved sound via HDMI be explained by that signal being uncompressed PCM vs the other two being bitstream? There wouldn't be much advantage to BR if the HDMI was just a bitstream. And, to take advantage of the PCM your receiver/processor would have to be able to accept such a signal. There may be some difference between MC analog and HDMI due to variables in cables and such but both are converted by the BR player. NO receiver/processor is capable of decoding HD audio bitstream, and on the odd chance I was wrong, the decoding would be useless as no disc has yet been encoded to allow the bitstream to bypass the BR player's internal DAC's. I get the impression that the industry is trying to push back to decoding being done in the player rather than receivers.

Actually Mr P, there are several bluray players that pass bitstream from the player to the receiver for decoding. There are several recievers that can except that bitstream and decode it in house. Dolby TrueHD and Dts HD MA can be passed that way. I am going to purchase a Onkyo reciever to use as a pre-pro that can do just that. I have in my possession (as of today) a HD DVD player that can pass both high definition codecs bitstream to the receiver for decoding. Next on the upgrade list after the receiver is Panasonics new bluray player that will also be able to pass the bitstream directly to the reciever. The passing of the bitstream is not a disc issue, it is an authoring issue. You can pass the audio to the reciever for decoding, but you give up the interactive audio in the extras for the priviledge. That has always been the case.

The industry did want to move toward internal decoding within the player, but the public(meaning the enthusiast) wanted to hear the raw stream from DDTHD and DTS HD MA lossless.

[Mr Peabody]

Having done a fair amount of research on the net, it seems as if alot of folks other than serious gearheads aren't really opting for hi-end processors at the moment. General consensus is that there aren'tt a whole lot of units out there short of megabuck megaboxes that do the do. A point that I always remind myself is that I hardly live in an anechoic chamber. My room presents a myriad of challenges that have me convinced that, at least in this setting, one of the big boys would be wasted effort.

* I don't think it would be wasted effort. You have the room for ML's, you have ML's and a very nice amp. You have gotten your impression from forums but you have to consider the sources. There are many who get a receiver and maybe add a big amp and think, "it don't get any better than this", but they haven't tried it. I don't see the $5k and down processors drying up because no one will buy them. Just over the weekend I hooked up my CJ preamp in my second system to an Adcom 5400 driving some Dyn Audience 60's, I was impressed at what a good front end can do. I think you would benefit from a complete high quality processor but at least get a stereo one.

As an aside, does anyone know how HT bypass differs form a Tape Loop. I mean, is there any technical difference? There seems to be a lot of disagreement on this topic and I was wondering if anyone had tried a variety of untis or had spoken with an authority on the subject.

* I'm not sure. Wooch may know. I know they both basically work the same way except the "bypass" is straight through where the "tape monitor" can be accessed by most any input. Also, I wonder if a tape loop is limited to how much voltage can pass through it. A preamp variable output signal is going to be higher than a fixed input.

[Mr Peabody]

Actually Mr P, there are several bluray players that pass bitstream from the player to the receiver for decoding. There are several recievers that can except that bitstream and decode it in house. Dolby TrueHD and Dts HD MA can be passed that way. I am going to purchase a Onkyo reciever to use as a pre-pro that can do just that. I have in my possession (as of today) a HD DVD player that can pass both high definition codecs bitstream to the receiver for decoding. Next on the upgrade list after the receiver is Panasonics new bluray player that will also be able to pass the bitstream directly to the reciever. The passing of the bitstream is not a disc issue, it is an authoring issue. You can pass the audio to the reciever for decoding, but you give up the interactive audio in the extras for the priviledge. That has always been the case.

>> I'm not saying you are wrong but what you say is contrary to Dolby Labs and what they have on their website. As far as the authoring issue, that has to be encoded on the disc or the pass through won't happen. This is a confusing issue, the HDMI what it will and will not do, and there seems to be no consistency to information. It's like everyone is making their best guess. I'd say this would have to be a big draw back to sales. If you have any links to info I'd appreciate them. Because I'd consider Dolby a pretty good source. I don't really care if it's one way or the other or both, I just want to know what will do what.

The industry did want to move toward internal decoding within the player, but the public(meaning the enthusiast) wanted to hear the raw stream from DDTHD and DTS HD MA lossless.

>> I don't get it, can't they hear it just as well decoded in the player and sent via PCM?

Now I thought I had this all straight from reading Dolby's website and other HT sites and you have to mess things up again.

[Mr Peabody]

Check these Sir T;

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dtsh...g-receiver.php

This article is excellent. It seems MA bitstream could be possible IF both the player and receiver had HDMI 1.3. No mention of the authoring catch.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...Explained/1064

Well now I know bitstream can be done if that's the way one wants to go. Now I have to get to the bottom of this encoding to bypass the internal DAC of the player. That will have to wait for another night because some antihystomines are kicking my butt.