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  1. #26
    Forum Regular Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    As you experiment you might discover that that the corrections made in the midrange, say 400 - 4000Hz, make as much or more difference than that sub-100 corrections. Do you listen to much accoustic music, (e.g. classical, jazz)? If so, you will likely find this to be the case.

    Let us know how it goes. Personnally I'm pretty concerned about any loss of resolution or micro-dynamics.
    I do listen to a lot of jazz and acoustic, yes.

    I'm also concerned about loss of resolution and microdynamics. I'm doing all the processing purely in the digital domain, so I don't know how/why it would be a problem, but frankly I wasn't impressed by the sound I was initially getting out of the thing.

    But I clearly need to do some tweaking. I'll continue to report back.
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  2. #27
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Be careful about how much eq you use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Anderson
    I've got the microphone placed exactly in the listening position, equidistant from each speaker.

    I'm going to try to adjust the bass levels manually. I'm generating a series of test tones at various intervals from 20hz up to 200hz on my computer, which I will feed into the DEQ2496. The DEQ2496 has a SPL meter built into it, so I'm going to use the microphone with that function to see if I can get a flat frequency response below 160hz just by running the test tones, checking the levels, and adjusting the graphic EQ manually in a trial and error process until the bass is more or less flat.

    Then I'll use the AUTOEQ function to automatically flatten everything above 160hz.

    I'll let you know how it works out; it'll probably take all day!
    The 1.6qr fall off under 40hz. If you try to eq them flat to 25hz your going to add a lot of eq, and your amp and/or speakers is going to pushed past it's design specs.
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  3. #28
    Forum Regular Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    The 1.6qr fall off under 40hz. If you try to eq them flat to 25hz your going to add a lot of eq, and your amp and/or speakers is going to pushed past it's design specs.
    Right, I'm aware of that (although I've been told they'll go down to about 35hz after break-in.)

    I have a subwoofer I may or may not try to integrate, depending on how good it sounds.
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  4. #29
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    You'll get responce even lower than that

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Anderson
    Right, I'm aware of that (although I've been told they'll go down to about 35hz after break-in.)

    I have a subwoofer I may or may not try to integrate, depending on how good it sounds.
    But it will gradually fall off in volume. My 3.6's start to taper off at about 35hz. The lowest note on a bass guitar is 42hz, so unless your into organ music anything lower is going to be secondary harmonics.
    Audio;
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    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
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  5. #30
    Forum Regular Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    OK, here's my experience so far, with my room anyway.

    I did the AUTOEQ for everything at 160hz and above, then adjusted the bass range manually. Then I manually tweaked the high frequency adjustments just a hair. Here are the results:


    1) It works quite well for midrange and high frequencies. Vocals, pianos, acoustic guitars etc all sound more realistic and natural. I've ended up boosting the 20khz range by about 5db, and it's amazing how much presence music has now! Also, I've ended up cutting the 630hz frequency by about 5db, which has taken out a piercing peak that would occasionally show up on sopranos, trumpets and the like.

    2) It doesn't work well at all for bass frequencies (anything below 150hz or so).

    By playing pink noise and fiddling for an hour or so, I can actually get the frequency spectrum quite flat down to about 40hz. But for my room, anyway, this requires fairly drastic changes in the bass range. My room has a huge dip right around 90-95hz, and a huge hump at 80-85hz. To get it flat, I have to cut the 80hz range by about 8-9db, and boost the 90hz range by about 5-6db.

    This does really wierd things to certain music. If you have anything with a prominent bass drum beat, it ends up sounding like crap.

    For now, I'm just softening the bass adjustments -- cutting the 80hz range by about 3db and boosting the 90hz range by about 2db. This sounds fairly decent, even though the frequency response isn't perfectly flat.

    My guess is that I could spend some time with room treatment and get the bass to come out flat while still sounding natural, but that's a project for another day.

    As for degradation in dynamics and resolution, I have to do some more listening before I develop an opinion on it. If there is any degradation, it's fairly subtle, at least to my ears.
    Last edited by Mike Anderson; 02-18-2006 at 02:34 PM.
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  6. #31
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Sounds like you made out pretty good

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Anderson
    OK, here's my experience so far, with my room anyway.

    I did the AUTOEQ for everything at 160hz and above, then adjusted the bass range manually. Then I manually tweaked the high frequency adjustments just a hair. Here are the results:

    For now, I'm just softening the bass adjustments -- cutting the 80hz range by about 3db and boosting the 90hz range by about 2db. This sounds fairly decent, even though the frequency response isn't perfectly flat.

    My guess is that I could spend some time with room treatment and get the bass to come out flat while still sounding natural, but that's a project for another day.

    As for degradation in dymanics and resolution, I have to do some more listening before I develop an opinion on it. If there is any degradation, it's fairly subtle, at least to my ears.
    It also sounds like you've got a node somewhere around 80hz. A lot of rooms have similar specs. Getting the response ruler flat in the bass region using eq necessarily going to make it sound any better either. Human hearing is just not geared to pick out such high "Q" peaks. It is much more sensitive to broad rises & slopes. Looks like you've got those licked.
    Audio;
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    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
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  7. #32
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Spend some more time with the unit, i took me a few days. It cannot fix huge dips which are apperent on most speaker systems in normal rooms. The internal dac needs to be close to clipping to get the dynamics. I EQ-D mine flat to 20Hz (there is tons of music below 25Hz) and then lowered the 12KHz, 16KHz, 20KHz with .5, 1, and 1.5 db incl a small raise in the 20 to 40Hz range by 1db and a 1 to 2db raise on the 1 to 2KHz region.

    You dont have to be into organ music at all to enjoy below 25Hz music. Afterall, if people where happy with the low bass responce they wouldnt buy subs ;-)

    You need to play more with your placement from the 1.6's, it took me month to get it half way right and that incl room acoustics.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  8. #33
    Forum Regular Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    ^^^ I'm definitely going to experiment some more, both with the unit and with speaker placement.

    As far as the internal DAC goes, that doesn't matter for my setup, does it? I'm running a digital signal into and out of the unit - does the DAC ever come into play at all? Part of the reason I got this unit was so that I could do everything digitally and do the analog conversion with a decent quality unit (my Benchmark).
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  9. #34
    Forum Regular Mike Anderson's Avatar
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    Oh, and I do listen to a fair amount of stuff (mostly electronic) that goes well down to 20hz. I know this because I can see it right on the RTA display.

    Gowever Geoffcin is right that it will probably be pretty much impossible (at least with my setup) to get it flat that far down. My speakers don't have the range of the Apogees, and my Titan sub doesn't integrate terribly well with the 1.6's, so I'm happy with it being flat down to 35hz or so.

    The other thing is that I like to play my rig quite loud, so having that much low end tends to rattle things pretty badly. I like to have my sub on just a touch so that I can feel a slight bump in the floor, as opposed to knocking my dishes off the shelves!
    Last edited by Mike Anderson; 02-19-2006 at 12:00 AM.
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  10. #35
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Well, like i always say. "Focus on ONE thing and do that to the best standard you can". The 1.6 is a great start and a good speaker and yes it has quite a bit of limitations but it does what it does well and doesnt do the rest. Most speakers do 1 thing good and suck at the rest, not the Maggie. Get it flat to 35 with a gentle roll off.

    -Florian

    PS: You can send me an email and i can help you there.
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

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