Audiophiles beware, the other senses are more connected than you think.

[Mr Peabody]

Now I'm confused, first I thought you were saying there's no audible difference, but here you say there is we just need to keep good record of it as proof. Whether controlled or not, a difference is a difference. It exists or not. So if it exists under controlled it's not that far of a stretch to say some one can hear it on there own. It's like saying a medicine worked during the study but it won't work as prescribed because you are no longer in the study. .

Accurate acoustic memory is a phallacy and has been demonstrated by Dr. Floyd Toole in his extensive works in acoustics. Its only human. Making such claims put syou into the X-Men class of super humans. Subjective claims cannot be used as proof for the general populous. It only works for the listener claiming the results. I bet you dollar to donuts that your subjective claims would fall away under controlled listening tests.

The rest of us mere mortals rely on controlled tests and good book keeping to keep our auditions straight.

[3db]

Now I'm confused, first I thought you were saying there's no audible difference, but here you say there is we just need to keep good record of it as proof. Whether controlled or not, a difference is a difference. It exists or not. So if it exists under controlled it's not that far of a stretch to say some one can hear it on there own. It's like saying a medicine worked during the study but it won't work as prescribed because you are no longer in the study. .

Let me help your confusion. Cables don't impart a sonic signature on a system. My record keeping notes is a response to blackraven's question about being able to pick out systems, systems pertaining to electronic components and speakers, definately not cables/interconnects. Why would I keep records on cables/interconnects when I know they don't impart a sonic signature? That would be a total waste of my time and the time of the salesman.

A controlled test will establish whether or not the difference exists. It will also reduce or eliminate all together the weighting of sighted subjective tests. Controlled tests are repeatable and eliminate subjective bias which is inherent in all people, even audiophiles.

Food for thought, why is it that markup on cable/interconnect prices is by far the highest of all the audio components?

[Hyfi]

Food for thought, why is it that markup on cable/interconnect prices is by far the highest of all the audio components?

I don't know, do you really think there is more than a few thousand bucks in an $80K amplifier? I doubt there is less than $10K worth of parts and labor. Is there really more than 20K worth of cabinet and drivers in a $180K pair of speakers?

Cables are not the only thing way marked up.

[Mr Peabody]

I was in the industry doing sales and trust me there's nothing unusual about the margins on cables. Have you seen the mark up on cartridges or other parts? Electronics are slim margins unless very expensive, follow the same margins as autos, the more expensive the more mark up, but it's accessories of ALL kinds where the margins are made. To single out cables in this respect is incorrect.

Cables can make a difference in sound, it can be proven, this shows your ignorance and inexperience on the topic. As an example science can prove the dielectric that goes around the wire itself can make an real audible difference depending on material used, dielectric even has ratings. It's also fact that stranded wire has a more adverse electronic effect on signal flow opposed to other construction. Perhaps some more research is required on your part.

[3db]

I was in the industry doing sales and trust me there's nothing unusual about the margins on cables. Have you seen the mark up on cartridges or other parts? Electronics are slim margins unless very expensive, follow the same margins as autos, the more expensive the more mark up, but it's accessories of ALL kinds where the margins are made. To single out cables in this respect is incorrect.

I have seen the markups on other components. Display's have the least markup, speakers and AVRs are close but cables are in another league of their own. I forgot about cartridges.. my bad.

Cables can make a difference in sound, it can be proven, this shows your ignorance and inexperience on the topic. As an example science can prove the dielectric that goes around the wire itself can make an real audible difference depending on material used, dielectric even has ratings. It's also fact that stranded wire has a more adverse electronic effect on signal flow opposed to other construction. Perhaps some more research is required on your part.

Show me the science that dielectrics can make a difference in sound. Do you even know what a dielectric is? Please show me the science about single conductor verses multiple strand conductors because everything I read tells a different story. Just so we are very clear on the subject of science: Science is not the words printed in glossy advertisements.

My ignorance is based on science and not subjective sighted testes based on speculative conjecture that you seem to toss out here and there.

[JohnMichael]

How can you have an opinion on cables if you are not able to hear the effect on a system?

[3db]

How can you have an opinion on cables if you are not able to hear the effect on a system?

Because cables are nothing more than a transmission medium wrapped up in a dielectric. At the frequency range that they are used in, the inductance, capacitance and resistance exhibited by these cables won't cause signal degradation if one adhere's to the recommended diameter verses distance recommendations ( to rule out resistive losses which would be applied equally across the entire frequency spectrum anyway )

[Hyfi]

Because cables are nothing more than a transmission medium wrapped up in a dielectric. At the frequency range that they are used in, the inductance, capacitance and resistance exhibited by these cables won't cause signal degradation if one adhere's to the recommended diameter verses distance recommendations ( to rule out resistive losses which would be applied equally across the entire frequency spectrum anyway )

What about cables from manufacturers that specifically alter the signal in a way that and end user can tailor a system to/with.

The problem with the whole discussion is that Naysayers base the whole argument on the assumption that ALL Cable MFGs make the cables to Identical Specs with same materials.

They don't. And many MFGs intentionally do something to alter the sound which will be great in one system and not in another. And the differences can be heard by many many people who test and buy them. This is not the site to find that info because of most of our pay scales, but I know of other sites where it is very common.