Audiophiles beware, the other senses are more connected than you think.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have to disagree with your comment about my son and I being biased. We did this without any preconceived notions about which cable would sound better. In fact, I swapped the cables without my son knowing that I had done so (although he did know that we were going to do the swap as some point). I was listening to the system with music that he was very familiar with and he walked into the room and he immediately said why does it sound so bright. He actually thought I swapped a tube as I had bought a couple of new tubes to try in his preamp.

It took time for you to swap that cable. During the time it took you to do so, your auditory memory was either dulled or erased in that time. The only way to do a cable test, a speaker test, an amp test, or any other test is to have instantaneous switching to provide an instantaneous comparison.

If your son step into the room and asked "why does it sound so bright?", then your son could have walked in on a bass node(suck out) that changed the perceived spectral content of what you are listening to. When you do a cable test(even if it is a useless subjective one), then one has to sit in the same place, make sure ALL of the source material is of equal level(level matching because louder sounds better to the ears than softer), and a whole host of other things or your results are contaminated.

You don't need a double blind test and a recording studio to be able to tell the difference between the 2 cables that we tested as the difference was not subtle. The BJC's were very fatiguing and bright while the AQ's were pleasing with no fatigue and a warmer sound.

If the difference was not subtle, then one of the cables(or both) are not well made. Bright and fatiguing would mean an excess of upper treble energy, and this is measurable. If I measured that cable, and the response was flat across the board, then I would say your are hearing things. If a cable sounds "warmer"(which is quite frankly a non-term when evaluating cables and wire) then that wire would have excessive mid-bass, which is also measurable. The deviation from a flat frequency response would have to be more than 3db's before the ear would hear it, as anything less would be masked. I have never measured a cable(even cheap ones) that had a 3db deviation at any frequency audible to the human ear. Some poorly made cables had a slight roll off near or above 20khz, but our hearing is so insensitive at that frequency we would not even notice it. I have never measured a cable that had a mid-bass bump of 3db(or more) as that would be a frequency shaping device, not a piece of passive wire.

And you should not be so quick to judge a system that you have not heard in person. That $1300 system is detailed with pretty good resolution, in fact it is astounding at how good it sounded. But you don't need excellent detail and resolution to hear the difference of a bright system and warm system and fatigue and non fatigue. Now if you want to listen for other nuances of cable differences then I am in total agreement with you.

I don't think I wrote anything that could be passed as a judgement against your son's system - I have not heard it. However, it would take a system with more resolution than just "good" to reveal the differences between cables. If the "system" is bright, you don't change the cable, you change the room acoustics. A warm system is not accurate, and unfit as a reference to judge cables.

It was an eye opening experience for me as I was a skeptic about cables sounding different.

Now try it DBT and watch how closed eyed you get from your eye opening experience.

What you guys are telling me here is that you guys have figured out a way to make a silicon chip in a dirty room. Since I know this is not possible, my suspension of belief is torn to shreds.

[Mr Peabody]

I borrowed this from TAS, this is from report of T.H.E. audio show. Notice the last sentence and then my sig. Those cables seem modest in company of such gear.

"Picking up where it left off at CES was the peerless Focal Grande Utopia EM ($195k). It was a personal highlight of the show it was playing in the company of two other Focal Utopia speaker, the slightly smaller Maestro (pictured above) and Stella (D’Agostino power). The Maestro was powered by McIntosh gear while the Grande U was driven by an all Boulder “semi-mega” setup (the flagship Boulder gear is another discussion altogether) which included the 1021 Network Player streaming via UPnP 2110 Preamp ($54k) 2150 Mono Amps ($98k). My hosts cued up Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean” track in high res on both systems. My best prediction was that the Maestro would own the speed and transient departments while the big Grande would overwhelm with dynamic and low end energy but sputter a bit trying to maintain the pace and jump of this iconic dance track. Once again my prediction was stone-wrong. The square-shouldered Grande U sounded both bigger, weighter yet more sensitive to low level detail and delicate micro-dynamics than the McIntosh powered Maestro. Room setup, amplifier character? The unshakable grip and inner detail of the Boulder gear? Is there anything the Subzero-scale Focals won’t do? Yes-they won’t fit in my room. Anchored by XTC racks (all prices custom) and all Clarus Crimson cabling."

[blackraven]

It took time for you to swap that cable. During the time it took you to do so, your auditory memory was either dulled or erased in that time. The only way to do a cable test, a speaker test, an amp test, or any other test is to have instantaneous switching to provide an instantaneous comparison.

If your son step into the room and asked "why does it sound so bright?", then your son could have walked in on a bass node(suck out) that changed the perceived spectral content of what you are listening to. When you do a cable test(even if it is a useless subjective one), then one has to sit in the same place, make sure ALL of the source material is of equal level(level matching because louder sounds better to the ears than softer), and a whole host of other things or your results are contaminated.



If the difference was not subtle, then one of the cables(or both) are not well made. Bright and fatiguing would mean an excess of upper treble energy, and this is measurable. If I measured that cable, and the response was flat across the board, then I would say your are hearing things. If a cable sounds "warmer"(which is quite frankly a non-term when evaluating cables and wire) then that wire would have excessive mid-bass, which is also measurable. The deviation from a flat frequency response would have to be more than 3db's before the ear would hear it, as anything less would be masked. I have never measured a cable(even cheap ones) that had a 3db deviation at any frequency audible to the human ear. Some poorly made cables had a slight roll off near or above 20khz, but our hearing is so insensitive at that frequency we would not even notice it. I have never measured a cable that had a mid-bass bump of 3db(or more) as that would be a frequency shaping device, not a piece of passive wire.



I don't think I wrote anything that could be passed as a judgement against your son's system - I have not heard it. However, it would take a system with more resolution than just "good" to reveal the differences between cables. If the "system" is bright, you don't change the cable, you change the room acoustics. A warm system is not accurate, and unfit as a reference to judge cables.



Now try it DBT and watch how closed eyed you get from your eye opening experience.

What you guys are telling me here is that you guys have figured out a way to make a silicon chip in a dirty room. Since I know this is not possible, my suspension of belief is torn to shreds.

You are so off base here and are making suppositions with out even being present to hear the differences. I guess we are not able to tell the differece between speakers, preamps and amps. I said the difference was night and day, not I think we can hear a difference. Its easy to be an arm chair quarterback from your perspective. I guess we were imagining listening fatigue and brightness. I was also imagining the decrease in sibilant's with the AQ cable vs the BJC.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You are so off base here and are making suppositions with out even being present to hear the differences.

Unlike you, I would not just want to HEAR the differences you speak about, but I would want to measure it. It would be far easier to tell you to your face that you are hearing things if I was. Here is the problem with your rather silly assessment of your listening experience.

1. You did not normalize the volume between songs, or between the different pieces of software you listen to. There is no way you can with a $1300 dollar system and no measuring equipment.

2. No controls on the acoustics of the listening area, and from what you described people moving about the room listening to the source. Have EVER heard of ROOM ACOUSTICS?

3. If you ignorantly used the terms "bright" and "warm" then you are using the wrong terms to describe cables. Cables are "resolution" and more "resolution" not bright or warm. If they are bright, measurements would show a tipped up treble balance, and that would NOT be a properly functioning cable. If it is warm, that would mean a tipped up mid-bass and lower midrange frequency response. That would also be a improperly functioning cable. IF you have had ANY experience at measure cables you would understand that even some of the most poorly made cables don't have frequency variances(more than 3db) that support that description. Poorly made cables will lack the resolution of a quality cable, and if it is not properly shielded is opening to all kinds of signal contamination that will affect the amount of resolution hear. The worst that happens to the frequency response is it is slightly rolled off at the frequency EXTREMES, not where our hearing is the most sensitive. If what you are hearing is warm and bright, then that is coming from the source, not the wire. IC are to pass the electrical signal from one component to another, not shape the frequency response of the electrical signal passing through it.

I guess we are not able to tell the differece between speakers, preamps and amps.

Not any of these are passive devices. You are going to have a far easier time hearing differences between these than through a passive piece of wire. You will have a much easier time hearing differences between speakers than you would amps and preamps.

I said the difference was night and day, not I think we can hear a difference.

If it was night and day difference, then one of the cables was not properly designed. There are no night and day differences between two well designed cables. It all about nuance and subtlety at that point.

Its easy to be an arm chair quarterback from your perspective.

It is even easier to listen to your own BS in an echo chamber.

I guess we were imagining listening fatigue and brightness. I was also imagining the decrease in sibilant's with the AQ cable vs the BJC.

Fatigue and brightness could have come from the difference in volume that you listened to the recording. Since you didn't normalize(or even try to) the volume between songs or software, you don't know if it was in the source, or coming from anywhere in the chain. Fatigue and brightness are not synonymous with each other. Fatigue can come from listening too loud for too long a period without the audio being bright at all. Fatigue can come from listening actively for too long(that why we have breaks when doing DBT's).

The decrease in sibilants could mean you didn't listen to one cable as loud as you listened to the other. Sibilance comes from the source, not from the cable. If you turned up the audio, the sibilance is easier to hear. Turn down the volume, and the sibilance becomes more difficult to hear. This is why you MUST normalize your sources, so the volume is the same. 100% of the time the sibilance comes from the source, not the wire. Sibilance come from the interaction between the voice and the microphone, not from the IC. Wires don't make up what is not there in the first place.

[blackraven]

Unlike you, I would not just want to HEAR the differences you speak about, but I would want to measure it. It would be far easier to tell you to your face that you are hearing things if I was. Here is the problem with your rather silly assessment of your listening experience.

1. You did not normalize the volume between songs, or between the different pieces of software you listen to. There is no way you can with a $1300 dollar system and no measuring equipment.

2. No controls on the acoustics of the listening area, and from what you described people moving about the room listening to the source. Have EVER heard of ROOM ACOUSTICS?

3. If you ignorantly used the terms "bright" and "warm" then you are using the wrong terms to describe cables. Cables are "resolution" and more "resolution" not bright or warm. If they are bright, measurements would show a tipped up treble balance, and that would NOT be a properly functioning cable. If it is warm, that would mean a tipped up mid-bass and lower midrange frequency response. That would also be a improperly functioning cable. IF you have had ANY experience at measure cables you would understand that even some of the most poorly made cables don't have frequency variances(more than 3db) that support that description. Poorly made cables will lack the resolution of a quality cable, and if it is not properly shielded is opening to all kinds of signal contamination that will affect the amount of resolution hear. The worst that happens to the frequency response is it is slightly rolled off at the frequency EXTREMES, not where our hearing is the most sensitive. If what you are hearing is warm and bright, then that is coming from the source, not the wire. IC are to pass the electrical signal from one component to another, not shape the frequency response of the electrical signal passing through it.



Not any of these are passive devices. You are going to have a far easier time hearing differences between these than through a passive piece of wire. You will have a much easier time hearing differences between speakers than you would amps and preamps.



If it was night and day difference, then one of the cables was not properly designed. There are no night and day differences between two well designed cables. It all about nuance and subtlety at that point.



It is even easier to listen to your own BS in an echo chamber.



Fatigue and brightness could have come from the difference in volume that you listened to the recording. Since you didn't normalize(or even try to) the volume between songs or software, you don't know if it was in the source, or coming from anywhere in the chain. Fatigue and brightness are not synonymous with each other. Fatigue can come from listening too loud for too long a period without the audio being bright at all. Fatigue can come from listening actively for too long(that why we have breaks when doing DBT's).

The decrease in sibilants could mean you didn't listen to one cable as loud as you listened to the other. Sibilance comes from the source, not from the cable. If you turned up the audio, the sibilance is easier to hear. Turn down the volume, and the sibilance becomes more difficult to hear. This is why you MUST normalize your sources, so the volume is the same. 100% of the time the sibilance comes from the source, not the wire. Sibilance come from the interaction between the voice and the microphone, not from the IC. Wires don't make up what is not there in the first place.

Boy you sure have answers for everything and you know all this how? You spout BS with the best of them. How do you know that there would be no differences between 2 well designed cables. Have you tested every cable?

About the sibilance, I agree it is my source but some cables cut down on it. The volumes remain the same. But I guess you are implying that in some way the IC's are attenuating the volume.

Concerning fatigue, you are applying your own bias to what causes listener fatigue for you. For me it is brightness and too much high frequency. Here you are assuming that I am blasting my ears with loud music. I test my gear a normal listening levels and at low volumes.



Please show me the data to back up your claims and I will shut the fk up!

When you give me a load of BS to try and explain the night and day difference that we heard you lose all credibility! I would be more apt to side with you if the differences were subtle. I was a naysayer about cable differences when I first joined the forum. But after experimenting with cables I have changed my mind after hearing differences for myself.

I guess you are one of the people who believe that we never landed on the moon!