Who LOST Kam this season?

[ForeverAutumn]

I was talking Lost talk to a collegue this morning and our discussion went round many issues, but the one that we came up with that we both liked is this...

Charles Widmore is part of the Dharma Initiative.

Ben schemed to kill all the Dharma people on the island. But there must have been (and probably still are) Dharma people on the mainland. They would know about the island and about Ben and his people.

What if Widmore is a Dharma guy using his resources to get to the island and find Ben. Firstly, to punish Ben for his slaying of the Dharma folks on the island. Secondly, to continue their research. Ben thinks that he has to save the Island from Dharma, so it would stand to reason that he would want to keep Widmore away.

If Widmore is part of Dharma, he may have filled Penny in on the whole story. It would explain how Penny knows about the Island and knew where to look for Desmond. It also explains how the guys in Iceland (or wherever) knew where and how to look for the blip when the hatch exploded, and report it to Penny.

We've learned to think of Widmore as a bad guy because we see him through Desmond and Ben's eyes. If Widmore somehow knows about Desmond's time travelling ways, then his distain for Des may be nothing more than trying to save his daughter from a heartbreak that he knew was coming. Even if he doesn't know about Desmond's time travel, he's still just a Dad trying to protect his daughter from someone that he, perhaps, thinks isn't good enough for her. Ben's dislike for him is because he sees Dharma and, therefore, Widmore as his enemy.

But what if Widmore is really the good guy???

[kexodusc]

I was talking Lost talk to a collegue this morning and our discussion went round many issues, but the one that we came up with that we both liked is this...

Charles Widmore is part of the Dharma Initiative.

Ben schemed to kill all the Dharma people on the island. But there must have been (and probably still are) Dharma people on the mainland. They would know about the island and about Ben and his people.

What if Widmore is a Dharma guy using his resources to get to the island and find Ben. Firstly, to punish Ben for his slaying of the Dharma folks on the island. Secondly, to continue their research. Ben thinks that he has to save the Island from Dharma, so it would stand to reason that he would want to keep Widmore away.

If Widmore is part of Dharma, he may have filled Penny in on the whole story. It would explain how Penny knows about the Island and knew where to look for Desmond. It also explains how the guys in Iceland (or wherever) knew where and how to look for the blip when the hatch exploded, and report it to Penny.

We've learned to think of Widmore as a bad guy because we see him through Desmond and Ben's eyes. If Widmore somehow knows about Desmond's time travelling ways, then his distain for Des may be nothing more than trying to save his daughter from a heartbreak that he knew was coming. Even if he doesn't know about Desmond's time travel, he's still just a Dad trying to protect his daughter from someone that he, perhaps, thinks isn't good enough for her. Ben's dislike for him is because he sees Dharma and, therefore, Widmore as his enemy.

But what if Widmore is really the good guy???

Interesting theory...
I personally think Widmore is NOT a Dharma guy - the show suggested he came across the journal of the Black Rock's captain via the estate of Dr. Hanso...so of course he knows some stuff about the Island is looking for it.
The Dharma Initiative seems to be a bit more, well, noble and less sinister than Widmore.

But then again, if they're so righteous, why have a poison gas factory and why fight the "hostile" inhabitants of the island?

Hmmm....ya could be right. There's obviously some sort of connection, and yes, the DI would definitely have contacts around the world.

[Worf101]

That's one of the BIG questions isn't it?

1.What IS the Dharma Initiative.

2. Who are they now, since their enitre facility was wiped out by Ben?

3, Is Whidmore part of the D.I.?

4. How did the D.I. keep their discovery and exploration of the Island secret lo these many years?

5. Now that the Oceanic 6 are back in the world have they told anyone about where the hell they were all those months and did this include any disclosures about the Island?

I personally believe that Ben is holding everyone else hostage on the Island thereby forcing everyone else to keep mum on its existence and to get Sayid and the others to do his bidding. Ben is the Anitchrist, for sure.

Da Worfster

[ForeverAutumn]

Maybe it's not Ben and the Island that the Oceanic Six are trying to protect. Maybe it was Charles Widmore who convinced them all to lie and keep secrets to protect whatever it is the Dharma Initiative are up to. Sacrifice for the greater good.

So far, every season of Lost tells a story.
S1 was the plane crash.
S2 was the hatch
S3 was The Others
S4 is the rescue.
If I had to place a bet, I'd bet that S5 will be Charles Widmore and Dharma.

Purely speculation on my part, of course.

[Worf101]

When do the NEW Episodes start?

Da "Slacker" Worfster

[Groundbeef]

When do the NEW Episodes start?

Da "Slacker" Worfster

April 24th I belive. Also, its on a new time. I think 9-10CST.

[ForeverAutumn]

Time to bump this thread back up!

Okay, so last night's episode totally made up for the ultimately lame Micheal episode that the first half of the season ended with.

But did anyone notice how many questions were answered almost before you could ask them?

Question: Sayid is married?
Answer: I spent eight years looking for the woman I love. When I finally found her I married her.

Question: Ben can call up Smokey for help? But he told Locke that he didn't know who Smokey was.
Answer: Locke calls Ben out on it before the end of the episode (of course we still don't know what Smokey actually is!).

Question: (from a previous episode) Why would Sayid be working with Ben to kill Ben's enemies?
Answer: Revenge for Nadia's death.

But...does anyone else here think that Ben is pulling the wool over Sayid's eyes? Ben told Sayid that it was Widmore's guys who killed Nadia. But did you see the look on Ben's face as he walked away from Sayid after Sayid's offer to help Ben? It was that self-satisfied "my plan worked" look that we've gotten to know. Did Ben kill Nadia and blame it on Widmore to get Sayid to work with him? It was certainly no coincidence that Ben appeared at Nadia's funeral. Why would Sayid trust his word so easily?

And what are "the rules" between Ben and Widmore?

Also, I'm more convinced than ever that Widmore has something to do with Dharma.

So much to absorb from a great episode!

[ForeverAutumn]

Oh yeah, here's a question that wasn't answered...Why did Ben need to confirm what the date and the year was?

Also, WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYONE? The first episode of the second half of the fourth season has aired and it looks like Smokey got everyone around here too! Am I the only survivor?

[Brett A]

Oh yeah, here's a question that wasn't answered...Why did Ben need to confirm what the date and the year was?

I just couldn't make sense of the chronology of Ben's story last night.

By that time I was pretty confused about whether I was watching a flash-forward or flashback.
When Ben woke up in the Sahara, it seemed to take him a few moments to get his bearings, and then later when he needed to confirm what year it was (2005), I began to think that Ben is able to "work" the time travel abilities of the island.

[GMichael]

Also, WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYONE? The first episode of the second half of the fourth season has aired and it looks like Smokey got everyone around here too! Am I the only survivor?

Haven't watched the episode yet. Been trying to avoid this thread till I do.

[topspeed]

Smokey didn't get the guy who killed Ben's daughter, at least according to the previews. How he escaped is the question.

Why does Hurley know the way to Jacob??? What does he have to do with it? It was very cool that Sawyer...the guy who cares only about himself and rides Hurley more than anyone...threatened Locke if he hurt one curly hair on his head. The interactions and characterizations on this show is what make is so great!

Did anyone notice the entrance to the catacombs (or whatever) before Ben released Smokey? Keystone bricks and a rock wall. The architecture was very medieval to my eyes and suggests Smokey has been there a looooong time.

Finally, the dialogue between Ben and Widmore seemed almost biblical. I couldn't help but think it was more a conversation between good and evil instead of two men. If anyone saw Constantine, it was very much the same vibe. "The Rules" seem to imply some kind of realm or consciousness beyond ours. Interesting...

[Rich-n-Texas]

So are you going to be the next Michael Jordan who comes in and out of retirement so many times it makes peoples heads spin Speedy?

[ForeverAutumn]

Smokey didn't get the guy who killed Ben's daughter, at least according to the previews. How he escaped is the question.

Why does Hurley know the way to Jacob??? What does he have to do with it? It was very cool that Sawyer...the guy who cares only about himself and rides Hurley more than anyone...threatened Locke if he hurt one curly hair on his head. The interactions and characterizations on this show is what make is so great!

Did anyone notice the entrance to the catacombs (or whatever) before Ben released Smokey? Keystone bricks and a rock wall. The architecture was very medieval to my eyes and suggests Smokey has been there a looooong time.

Finally, the dialogue between Ben and Widmore seemed almost biblical. I couldn't help but think it was more a conversation between good and evil instead of two men. If anyone saw Constantine, it was very much the same vibe. "The Rules" seem to imply some kind of realm or consciousness beyond ours. Interesting...

We're not really sure yet what Hurley has to do with Jacob. But he did see Jacob's cabin and Jack's dad in the cabin in Jacob's rocking chair. In a previous episode (maybe the same on he saw the cabin in) he commented to Locke that it was "that way". Ben overheard him and you definately saw a look of shock on Ben's face. Maybe Jacob has something to do with the numbers.

I did notice the entrance that Ben went into. And how dirty he was when he came out. Almost like he'd been rolling in ashes?!

[kexodusc]

Okay, late to the party, but thank goodness for PVR's!

On FA's earlier comments about Sayid joining Ben - yeah, I totally got a vibe Ben was manipulating him. My guess - Ben will use Sayid to kill Penny and get his revenge on Widmore!!!

Also - Ben arrived in the middle of the desert - I'm just thinking back to a previous show where there was a Dharma collar (for a polar bear?) in the sand....anyone else remember this? Any significance?

I'm very curious to know what "the rules" are as well. How Widmore broke them and what the consequences are?

And let's not forget, Jack and co. know that Faraday and team aren't their to rescue them anymore. What's the fallout from that going to be?

Best scene: Early when they're playing Risk - and Hurley says "He's trying to divide and conquer us"...just me, or is that EXACTLY what happened at the end of the show???? Clever.

Best quote: Sawyer, when he says: "Let me guess..14J isn't the code for the pizza boy"

[GMichael]

Another hottie bites the dust. Anyone know the average lifespan of a hot chick on this show? Don't they ever kill off the guys? I say Sawyer should be next.

[Groundbeef]

So I was watching last night, and ended up with more questions than answers. (Go figure...LOST...)

Unless I'm missing something, I didn't think that Sawyer was one of the 6. Or did I fall off a cliff, and miss that episode?

Either way, it looks like Jack is about to fall off the wagon.

And Aaron is Claire's baby.

And Smokey didn't kill the soldiers, just shake them up.

Overall, I felt it was one of the weaker episodes I've seen in a while. The whole Jack needed surgery angle was pretty lame.

Biggest shocker was that the carrot top lady can understand Korean. I liked when Jin said he was going to break the other scientists fingers until she admitted she understood Korean. Very old school Jin.

I hope next week is better. There are only 4 more left until this season takes a wrap.

[ForeverAutumn]

I don't think that Sawyer was one of the six. If you think waaaaay back, you'll recall that Sawyer had a kid with that girlfriend that he conned. My guess is that Kate promised to look out for the kid on Sawyer's behalf.

I agree that it was one of the weaker episodes but still not as bad as finding Michael on the freighter. I'm sure that Jack's surgery is leading up to something...probably why he was convinced to get on the helicopter and leave the island and the rest of the Losties behind, which is something that I can't imagine him doing otherwise.

What hit me most in that episode was Claire just walking off into the jungle with Christian and leaving Aaron behind. And then Hurley's comment to Jack that "you're not supposed to raise him". Leading back to previous theories that there is something very special about Aaron.

[GMichael]

I don't think that Sawyer was one of the six. If you think waaaaay back, you'll recall that Sawyer had a kid with that girlfriend that he conned. My guess is that Kate promised to look out for the kid on Sawyer's behalf.

I agree that it was one of the weaker episodes but still not as bad as finding Michael on the freighter. I'm sure that Jack's surgery is leading up to something...probably why he was convinced to get on the helicopter and leave the island and the rest of the Losties behind, which is something that I can't imagine him doing otherwise.

What hit me most in that episode was Claire just walking off into the jungle with Christian and leaving Aaron behind. And then Hurley's comment to Jack that "you're not supposed to raise him". Leading back to previous theories that there is something very special about Aaron.

Didn't you hear? Sawyer is the next to die. The bear gets him.

[Groundbeef]

I don't think that Sawyer was one of the six. If you think waaaaay back, you'll recall that Sawyer had a kid with that girlfriend that he conned. My guess is that Kate promised to look out for the kid on Sawyer's behalf.

What hit me most in that episode was Claire just walking off into the jungle with Christian and leaving Aaron behind. And then Hurley's comment to Jack that "you're not supposed to raise him". Leading back to previous theories that there is something very special about Aaron.

Well, I may have to go back and re-watch the part where Jack is drunk near the end w/Kate. He is asking about where she was, and what she was doing.

I thought that she said she was talking to Sawyer on the phone, and then was doing something for him. Kate seemed really upset (obviously) but, if it had something to do with his kid, why wouldn't she have said that?

After all, I doubt Jack would have been so angry if she had told him about that. This is WAAAAYYYY to "cloak and dagger" to simply be Kate helping out Sawyers kid.

Also, I had kinda forgotten about the baby part on the island. I think that Jack's dad was leading Claire away, so that the baby HAD to leave the island. If everyone thinks she is gone it makes it much easier to take the baby off.

Secondly, remeber Claire is the only person to have given birth and not died. I think somehow the baby needs to leave if for no other reason than the powers that be don't want Widmore to get their claws into it.

[ForeverAutumn]

Secondly, remeber Claire is the only person to have given birth and not died. I think somehow the baby needs to leave if for no other reason than the powers that be don't want Widmore to get their claws into it.

It's only women who get pregnant while on the island that die. Claire was pregnant before she landed on the island, same with Rousseau.

Hmmmm. But you raise a good point. Was Kate actually talking to Sawyer?

[GMichael]

It's only women who get pregnant while on the island that die. Claire was pregnant before she landed on the island, same with Rousseau.

Hmmmm. But you raise a good point. Was Kate actually talking to Sawyer?

Only women who get pregnant and stay on the island, right?

[Groundbeef]

It's only women who get pregnant while on the island that die. Claire was pregnant before she landed on the island, same with Rousseau.

Hmmmm. But you raise a good point. Was Kate actually talking to Sawyer?

Well, there was some speculation that ANY woman that gave birth was going to die. Remeber, the others kidnapped her, and injected her with some "antidote".

There is something about that baby.

I still have to re-watch the part w/Kate.

[ForeverAutumn]

Only women who get pregnant and stay on the island, right?

Could be. Sun's baby survived...or so we've been led to believe.

[Brett A]

Hmmmm. But you raise a good point. Was Kate actually talking to Sawyer?

I don't think Kate was talking to Sawyer. She told Jack she made a promise to Sawyer. That's something you say about someone who's dead. I think the unattended funeral might have been for him.

I think what we saw this week was the beginning of jacks descent into the bad drug and alcohol addiction we saw in the flash-forward in the start of this season (or was it the end of last) But why? What's is it that is so horrific that jack can't face? That is what I think we're still to find out. And I'll bet it has to do with the events getting off the island. Remember in the earlier flash-forward, when jack met Kate at the back of an airstrip and said "We've gottta get back there. It was a mistake to leave!!" --or something like that?

[Worf101]

My observations.

1. Life expectancy on this Island sucks mule testicles. Just when you find a character you LIKE (Ecko Rousseau etc...) they bit the big enchilada or disappear. Suckage.

2. This whole story is eerily remenicient of a "ying/yang" - "Good vs. Evil" - "Order vs. Chaos" kind of thing between Ben and Whidmore. Guardians of the Island vs. exploiters. They've been warring/searching for the Island since the dawn of time. Which ever side owns it can expolit it's vast powers, for good or ill. The Rules being that each "leader" is allowed one child, one progeny to carry on after their death. Ben's daughter was his, Whidmore smoked her, so Ben's gonna get Penny. Ben telling Whidmore that "you'll never find the Island"? WTF? I know the thing moves in time, but does it move in space as well?

3. I told the ole lady that if Ben smiles when he walks away, he killed Sayid's wife. Bingo. But Sayid's not stupid enough to trust Ben as far as he can throw him. He's siding with Ben until he can find out who/what's been pulling the strings for the last 8 years. Then I've no doubt he'll put two between Ben's Baby Blues.

4. The Island is more powerful or contains more Alien tech than we know. We know it can operate outside of time, heal the sick, even raise the dead (or make them ghosts) but it can also teleport you through space and time. Not exactly, but within reason. That's how Ben wound up in the desert and why he asked what day and year it was. He'd also been there before which is why he had a suite already reserved. They tested the teleportation device with polar bears which is why you found the bones of them with Dharma tags on them in the desert that appeared centuries old.

5. Jack's way too tortured for the appearence of his Dad to have sent him that far off the deep end. Also I think puddin' sewed something up in Jack that's NOT supposed to be there, that's why Kate had to leave.

6. Maybe Hurley's right, maybe they are all dead and they were never supposed to get out of purgatory.

Da Worfster