A psychopath with a plan

[Rich-n-Texas]

I took a day off from work Friday so I could catch the opening of "The Dark Night", and well, I may have to take another one and see it again. I'm probably going to be echoing others' sentiments, but nevertheless, this movie easily lived up to its billing.

The way I saw it, the story revolved around three and sometimes four characters, but it was Heath Ledger's Joker that kept me focused. This villian was able to manipulate and intimidate almost anyone who stood in his way. Not bad for a psycho. At no time during scenes where the joker was the focal point did I see Heath Ledger (maybe because I didn't see "Broke Back Mountian), and I'd compare his performance to Denzel Washington's crooked cop performance in "Training Day". Where Ceasar Romero's Joker was protrayed as a fruit cake, and Jack Nicholson's Joker was more comedic, Heath's Joker was just plain evil, with no regard for human life. Even during scenes were he wasn't invloved, what he was up to and how it affected the story was always in my mind. The scene where he has his head out the window of the moving vehicle is what's playing over and over in my head. That's the one that truly frightened me, and convinced me that his character wasn't supposed to be funny.

This flick definately was not your typical *comic book hero saves the city* fare. There were some plot lines that lent the film towards that type of campiness, but for the most part this was a serious *good vs. evil* drama. As was the case in "Batman Begins", the marque players' performances were top notch, but getting back to Heath's Joker, his performance was so believable that I just wanted to hate the character, but that feeling was tempered by the reality that there will never again be a Heath Ledger as "The Joker", which certainly made for mixed emotions. Also sad was no scenes of protruding nipples from under Rachel's outfits.

Those are just a few of my impressions of "The Dark Night"; I don't want to say anymore because I fear spoiling it for others, and I'm definately going to see it again because as someone else mentioned, there were parts of the movie that became complicated for my simple mind, and as well, there were points where I couldn't hear the dialog clearly, which I think has more to do with the theater where I watched it.

I give this movie...

[GMichael]

Great mini-review. Thanks for not going too far into depth and adding more spoilers. The anti nippage part is a little downer though.
I may just have to drag the little woman out to see this one at the theater.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Great mini-review. Thanks for not going too far into depth and adding more spoilers. The anti nippage part is a little downer though.
I may just have to drag the little woman out to see this one at the theater.

Looks like this post was, what Jay Leno would call... sympathy applause. That's okay, even PS had his bad days ya know? And besides, someone has already copied my first use of "Why so serious?", so I guess it did benefit somebody.

[Worf101]

Not pity applause. I found your review and Kex's to be both concise and in-depth. I'm just a little burnt out on the heaping piles of praise for a flick I've not seen yet. But trust me, I do value your opinion.

Da Worfster

[Worf101]

I find it interesting (no insult intended) that this version of the Joker has resonated with you and so many other people? When I was watching it the idea that I'd never see Heath Ledger reprise the role never entered my mind as it did yours. But due to your post I started thinking more and more about the psychosis of the Joker.

1. Horribly scarred physically and mentally. You don't now how or where cause he's constantly changing the story of how he got that way.

2. Much like Anton Chigur in "No Country for Old Men" he wants the everyday citizen to "get in the game" so he sets up situations where John and Jane Q. Public are forced to break the ultimated commandment and kill. Kill for survival, kill to protect loved ones or kill for vengeance.

3. His duel with Batman is the only thing that gives his life purpose cause in Bats he's found his mirror image almost as screwed up as himself. And much like "The Green Goblin" he want's the hero to abandon principals and morals and join the fun?

I susptect there'll be many a thesis written on this character.

Da Worfster

[ForeverAutumn]

Nice review. I generally stay away from films like this as they just don't interest me. I've only seen the first Batman from about 20 years ago and I only saw that one because I was dragged to it by my boyfriend at the time. But you guys have made me very curious about this one. And I may just have to go and see it.

I may not be a fan of the genre, but I am a fan of outstanding acting and it certainly sounds like Heath Ledger has earned the accolades that he's getting for this. And the fact that I was hearing the praise in the media before his death confirms that it's actually earned and not just putting the deceased on a pedestal as sometimes happens.

[GMichael]

Nice review. I generally stay away from films like this as they just don't interest me. I've only seen the first Batman from about 20 years ago and I only saw that one because I was dragged to it by my boyfriend at the time. But you guys have made me very curious about this one. And I may just have to go and see it.

I may not be a fan of the genre, but I am a fan of outstanding acting and it certainly sounds like Heath Ledger has earned the accolades that he's getting for this. And the fact that I was hearing the praise in the media before his death confirms that it's actually earned and not just putting the deceased on a pedestal as sometimes happens.

But, don't bats scare you as much as spiders and monkeys?

Look out for that one!
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(picture left out this time)

[ForeverAutumn]

Nope. I think that Bats are cool...they're like little flying rats. I like 'em.

[GMichael]

Nope. I think that Bats are cool...they're like little flying rats. I like 'em.

I was once told that bats are just rats that joined the Airforce.

[Ajani]

Nope. I think that Bats are cool...they're like little flying rats. I like 'em.

I wonder how sucessful the comic would have been, if it had been called "Flying Ratman"...

[Rich-n-Texas]

I find it interesting (no insult intended) that this version of the Joker has resonated with you and so many other people? When I was watching it the idea that I'd never see Heath Ledger reprise the role never entered my mind as it did yours. But due to your post I started thinking more and more about the psychosis of the Joker.

1. Horribly scarred physically and mentally. You don't now how or where cause he's constantly changing the story of how he got that way.

2. Much like Anton Chigur in "No Country for Old Men" he wants the everyday citizen to "get in the game" so he sets up situations where John and Jane Q. Public are forced to break the ultimated commandment and kill. Kill for survival, kill to protect loved ones or kill for vengeance.

3. His duel with Batman is the only thing that gives his life purpose cause in Bats he's found his mirror image almost as screwed up as himself. And much like "The Green Goblin" he want's the hero to abandon principals and morals and join the fun?

I susptect there'll be many a thesis written on this character.

Da Worfster

This wasn't a Superhero movie, it was a psychological thriller, wouldn't you agree Worf?

Have ya seen it yet Aa? Do you agree?

[Worf101]

This wasn't a Superhero movie, it was a psychological thriller, wouldn't you agree Worf?

Have ya seen it yet Aa? Do you agree?

In the traditional sense, no, it wasn't a "superhero movie" but it is stil a superhero movie. I'll explain. TDK is far more sophisticated than what USED to be known as a "superhero movie". I thnk Spiderman 1 and 3 raised the bar as did Batman Begins on what folks would accept as a superhero in a post 911 world. The era of silly superhero movies with NO consequences and no moral dilemmas is over. It was still a super hero movie but a drama first.

Da Worfster

[3-LockBox]

I'm afraid I'm with Worf on this one. As good as Ledger is in this role, this was the only 'logical' direction to take the Joker character without it being cast in Jack Nicholson's formidable shadow. And I'm sure it was written this way, not just Ledger's interpretation. Let's be honest - if Ledger doesn't die, are we really talking Oscar? It was a good movie, but not life changing. How could any super-hero movie do that, if you're over the age of 12.

Ledger is to be applauded for creating a character that will not have to endure comparison to another, more famous actor's performance...postumously that is.

[eisforelectronic]

This was one of the first superhero movies I can remember where the arch nemesis doesn't die at the end....but he did die.

[ForeverAutumn]

Oh the irony.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hey FA, don't mean to be morbid in this thread (ironic, eh?), but did you know Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn died yesterday?

http://www.newstatesman.com/europe/2...syn-era-russia

[Rich-n-Texas]

In the traditional sense, no, it wasn't a "superhero movie" but it is stil a superhero movie. I'll explain. TDK is far more sophisticated than what USED to be known as a "superhero movie". I thnk Spiderman 1 and 3 raised the bar as did Batman Begins on what folks would accept as a superhero in a post 911 world. The era of silly superhero movies with NO consequences and no moral dilemmas is over. It was still a super hero movie but a drama first.

Da Worfster

I agree, it was a drama outside the Superhero movie box. When I say psychological thriller, I'm talking the cat and mouse chase and the way the mouse manipulates the environment (supporting cast) to gain an edge.

3LB, maybe Ledger's Joker deserves an Oscar, maybe not, but I don't recall there ever being a comic book villian shattering box office numbers any which way you look at them, the way this character did. Oscar nomination at the very least!

[Ajani]

A few words on the Joker:

First, the Oscar buzz started before Ledger died... so if he is nominated, it won't be just because he died... Now whether or not he deserves to win is open to debate... I've seen better performances not gain Oscar nomination and worse ones win Oscars...

Next, while acknowledging the contribution that the writing/directing from Nolan made to this interpretation of the Joker... I think we really need to give a lot or respect to Frank Miller.... since this is just a Real World Interpretation of the Joker from his Classic Graphic Novel "The Dark Knight Returns"... (which is clearly where the name of the film came from and some of the basic premise).... In the film, the Joker uses lines like "you complete me" and goes in depth to explain his relationship/obsession with the Batman... in the Graphic Novel, you see the Joker rotting away in Arkham (looking basically brain dead) untill he sees news that Batman has returned... and all of a sudden, he gains new life and motivation and plots his escape from Arkham.... So as good as the explanation of the relationship between Joker and Batman is in the film, the relationship was clearly already established in the Graphic Novel...

What Nolan and Ledger did brilliantly, was to make a psychotic clown seem believable in a real world enviroment... That is a tremendously difficult task, but I think they did an amazing job and pulled it off...

[ForeverAutumn]

Hey FA, don't mean to be morbid in this thread (ironic, eh?), but did you know Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn died yesterday?

http://www.newstatesman.com/europe/2...syn-era-russia

Hey Rich, yes I saw the story on the news. Thanks for posting that link, an interesing synopsis of his life and writing.

[Auricauricle]

Has anyone ever considered that Batman and The Joker are different aspects of Bruce Wayne's persona? Mebbe Batman is Wayne's Superego, while The Joker is an incarnation of the Id. As Batman, morals and propriety hold sway. Conversely, The Joker represents the Shadow, the avaracious and unmoral appetite. In the middle, as Ego, stands Wayne, inert and steadfast....

Out of the armchair, now....

[Ajani]

Has anyone ever considered that Batman and The Joker are different aspects of Bruce Wayne's persona? Mebbe Batman is Wayne's Superego, while The Joker is an incarnation of the Id. As Batman, morals and propriety hold sway. Conversely, The Joker represents the Shadow, the avaracious and unmoral appetite. In the middle, as Ego, stands Wayne, inert and steadfast....

Out of the armchair, now....

Why won't you take your meds before you post on this site???

That is an interesting and possible interpretation of the Batman/Joker relationship... but other than in a What If? / alternate reality comic, fans of Batman would be really really really pissed off by that revelation...

[Auricauricle]

Jeeze, so touchy and so early, yet!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Oh no! Aa's pulling his Freud teachings out on us!

Certainly the three characters would fit that psychology, but IMO there wasn't anything in the movie to make me think along those lines.

[Auricauricle]

Sorry....I have been readin' and writin' on this sheepdip for so long that I forgot my manners!!

[Worf101]

Has anyone ever considered that Batman and The Joker are different aspects of Bruce Wayne's persona? Mebbe Batman is Wayne's Superego, while The Joker is an incarnation of the Id. As Batman, morals and propriety hold sway. Conversely, The Joker represents the Shadow, the avaracious and unmoral appetite. In the middle, as Ego, stands Wayne, inert and steadfast....

Out of the armchair, now....

Forget the insults of these cretins, you're far more right than you know. And as for Miller's interpretation, Ajani, you're quite correct. I only wish they'd been able to interpret his "Daredevil" as well as they did his Batman. In some ways they did but the public wasn't ready to see a oxycotton munching superhero, I guess they are now.

Da Worfster