Bruce Lee/Martial Arts Fans REJOICE!!!!

[Woochifer]

Awesome woochifer! will defn be picking this bad boy up then. i've found a few stores that sell the hong kong versions of jet li's and chan's movies (generally region free coding so play in all dvd players). if you want i can send ya the link (found them off of ebay) and have purchased a few of chan's and li's movies from them with no problems. just got jackie chan's The Myth which was released last year in asia but, to date, has no release scheduled for the us. will post a review soon as it gets here. also The New Police Story and tons of other asian titles that you generally cant find here, (or when you do, is the butchered version) they have in the original versions with subtitles.
thanks for the info!!

You're more than welcome! (Didn't you used to have a Bruce Lee avatar?) I saw this set at Best Buy back in October when it first came out, and I just thought it was nothing more than another shoddy repackaging of the Bruce Lee movies. The packaging certainly doesn't suggest anything different -- slim Amaray cases and no mention of the original Cantonese language tracks on the box.

It wasn't until I started cataloging my DVD collection on the DVD Aficionado site in December that I found out that this new set indeed presented the original cuts with the original language tracks using the correct titles. I'm somewhat disappointed that this new set does not pull together the treasure trove of bonus features included with the Legends series DVDs in the U.K., but having these movies now in their rightful spot in my DVD collection is what I've wanted ever since I first bought a DVD player, so I'm a very happy camper!

There were also a few specialty DVD stores in my area that used to stock the Chan and Li titles, but most of them have gone out of business. I bought a lot of the Chan and Li DVDs from Hong Kong when Tai Seng (the U.S. home video distributor for most of the major HK studios) still had the rights to those titles. But, when Dimension Films acquired the U.S. distribution rights to most of Chan and Li's older films, Tai Seng could no longer distribute the HK DVDs in the U.S. legally.

And what Dimension has done with those films has been an absolute disaster. They've chopped up those films, and dubbed, rescored, and retitled them. In this day and age where you have an increasingly sophisticated U.S. audience for martial arts pics, and proven box office success for these films in their original language, it's inexcusable for Dimension to try and make a quick buck by shoddily marketing these genre classics like they were still 70's era grind house fare.

Some of Chan's recent releases find their way into Chinese book and video stores, but they're only sporatically available and disappear altogether once the U.S. release comes out. (A few years ago, I saw The Accidental Spy at a Chinese bookstore, but balked at buying it for $45; now all I ever see is the butchered U.S. version)

I know that there are some mail order vendors that sell the versions out of Hong Kong, but I've had bad experiences with some HK DVDs. So, I've been somewhat wary of buying HK DVDs without knowing anything about the video quality, since DVDs of these movies can come from any number of different sources, some of which are more scrupulous than others. I will probably order the Jackie Chan Police Story boxed set from YesAsia.com, and see if other vendors have other DVDs available that I can use to plug the holes in my collection. I've been waiting for some of the Chan DVDs to get remastered (the video quality on my copies of Project A, Part 2 and Police Story 2 is mediocre), but I just noticed that the newly remastered Armour of God boxed set is now regionally coded.

My office moved to a different location and I just found a specialty DVD store nearby that stocks Asian titles, so I might pay a visit there after work today.

[Kam]

You're more than welcome! (Didn't you used to have a Bruce Lee avatar?) I saw this set at Best Buy back in October when it first came out, and I just thought it was nothing more than another shoddy repackaging of the Bruce Lee movies. The packaging certainly doesn't suggest anything different -- slim Amaray cases and no mention of the original Cantonese language tracks on the box.

It wasn't until I started cataloging my DVD collection on the DVD Aficionado site in December that I found out that this new set indeed presented the original cuts with the original language tracks using the correct titles. I'm somewhat disappointed that this new set does not pull together the treasure trove of bonus features included with the Legends series DVDs in the U.K., but having these movies now in their rightful spot in my DVD collection is what I've wanted ever since I first bought a DVD player, so I'm a very happy camper!

There were also a few specialty DVD stores in my area that used to stock the Chan and Li titles, but most of them have gone out of business. I bought a lot of the Chan and Li DVDs from Hong Kong when Tai Seng (the U.S. home video distributor for most of the major HK studios) still had the rights to those titles. But, when Dimension Films acquired the U.S. distribution rights to most of Chan and Li's older films, Tai Seng could no longer distribute the HK DVDs in the U.S. legally.

And what Dimension has done with those films has been an absolute disaster. They've chopped up those films, and dubbed, rescored, and retitled them. In this day and age where you have an increasingly sophisticated U.S. audience for martial arts pics, and proven box office success for these films in their original language, it's inexcusable for Dimension to try and make a quick buck by shoddily marketing these genre classics like they were still 70's era grind house fare.

Some of Chan's recent releases find their way into Chinese book and video stores, but they're only sporatically available and disappear altogether once the U.S. release comes out. (A few years ago, I saw The Accidental Spy at a Chinese bookstore, but balked at buying it for $45; now all I ever see is the butchered U.S. version)

I know that there are some mail order vendors that sell the versions out of Hong Kong, but I've had bad experiences with some HK DVDs. So, I've been somewhat wary of buying HK DVDs without knowing anything about the video quality, since DVDs of these movies can come from any number of different sources, some of which are more scrupulous than others. I will probably order the Jackie Chan Police Story boxed set from YesAsia.com, and see if other vendors have other DVDs available that I can use to plug the holes in my collection. I've been waiting for some of the Chan DVDs to get remastered (the video quality on my copies of Project A, Part 2 and Police Story 2 is mediocre), but I just noticed that the newly remastered Armour of God boxed set is now regionally coded.

My office moved to a different location and I just found a specialty DVD store nearby that stocks Asian titles, so I might pay a visit there after work today.

Armour of god was the first jackie chan movie i saw and got me hooked. am a huge chan fan and have been trying to find his movies outside of the crappy dimension films versions which are all you can find here. So far i've gotten the asian versions of OldBoy, Cashern, and Hero from ebay about a year or so before they were even talked about in the US. of course oldboy is being remade here, cashern was never released, and hero came out here over a year after being released in asia. I just picked up the latest police story and The Myth movies of jackie off the same place. I'll let you know how the video quality is of them when they get in with a review of the movies too. i have the accidental spy us release and its pretty crappy, but if you can get your hand on Gorgeous, i highly highly highly reccomend that one, its my all-time favorite jackie movie to date. although it is a cheesy love story as well, its got a great heart to it and two amazing fight sequences with the tiny white dude who's a part of (and the only white member of) the jackie chan stunt team.
Although the fight at the end of Who Am I? i think is pretty ridiculous too.

hmm... think i'll pop a jackie movie in after the rose bowl.

[L.J.]

Great tip Wooch, I'll be picking this one up. Nice price too. I'm so lazy , I'll have to read your entire review tomorrow.

[L.J.]

Great tip Wooch, I'll be picking this one up. Nice price too. I'm so lazy , I'll have to read your entire review tomorrow.

Now I can say, great review Wooch. Too tired to read it last night. I may pick this baby up tomorrow. My dad was a big fan, so naturally I'm right behind him. It's been awhile since I've seen any of the films so this is going to be a real treat.

[Woochifer]

Now I can say, great review Wooch. Too tired to read it last night. I may pick this baby up tomorrow. My dad was a big fan, so naturally I'm right behind him. It's been awhile since I've seen any of the films so this is going to be a real treat.

Cleaned up video and multiple language options -- this is the first time that Bruce Lee's films have been available in this form for American audiences. It's a huge deal for Lee's fans, and for all of the hype that usually accompanies anything "new and improved," this is one case where I wish that Fox Video had gone all out with the marketing!

As it is, the slip case doesn't even tell you that the original Cantonese and Mandarin language tracks were included! I mean, Fox FINALLY got it right with this set, but they didn't bother to tell anyone. They left it up to fans and review sites to get the word out. I've already got four of you on board to purchase this crown jewel, and I ain't gettin' a cut!

BTW, I looked up some other discussion threads on this set, and it seems that the Mandarin tracks are the original theatrical release tracks. People on those boards don't seem to remember whether the movies were released in Cantonese during their original theatrical runs. I remember watching these films in Cantonese in the late-70s, but have no idea how recently those soundtracks were done.

[L.J.]

Cleaned up video and multiple language options -- this is the first time that Bruce Lee's films have been available in this form for American audiences. It's a huge deal for Lee's fans, and for all of the hype that usually accompanies anything "new and improved," this is one case where I wish that Fox Video had gone all out with the marketing!

As it is, the slip case doesn't even tell you that the original Cantonese and Mandarin language tracks were included! I mean, Fox FINALLY got it right with this set, but they didn't bother to tell anyone. They left it up to fans and review sites to get the word out. I've already got four of you on board to purchase this crown jewel, and I ain't gettin' a cut!

BTW, I looked up some other discussion threads on this set, and it seems that the Mandarin tracks are the original theatrical release tracks. People on those boards don't seem to remember whether the movies were released in Cantonese during their original theatrical runs. I remember watching these films in Cantonese in the late-70s, but have no idea how recently those soundtracks were done.

Thanks Wooch! I picked this up today for $34.99. I'll have to have my dad over now. I've only seen Lee's films with english voice overs, so this is gonna be a real treat. I'm confused though, should I be playing the Cantonese or Mandarin track

[Woochifer]

Thanks Wooch! I picked this up today for $34.99. I'll have to have my dad over now. I've only seen Lee's films with english voice overs, so this is gonna be a real treat. I'm confused though, should I be playing the Cantonese or Mandarin track

Ordinarily with Hong Kong films, the Cantonese tracks would be the way to go, because Cantonese is the dominant Chinese dialect in Hong Kong. Now that I've been reading some other message board chats about this DVD set, I'm not so sure whether the Cantonese soundtrack is the actual original track! I know that some of the Shaw Brothers movies (famous for classics like Master of the Flying Guillotine, but not all of their movies were martial arts pics) were done in Mandarin during that era, so it's very possible that the original theatrical soundtrack was in Mandarin. I know that Cantonese soundtracks had been created by the late-70s because I originally saw Bruce Lee's movies in theaters playing in Cantonese. The only question is whether these Cantonese soundtracks were done before or after his death.

Apparently, Bruce Lee was not a native Mandarin speaker, so he would have had to lipsync his way through the dialog if the movies were originally done in Mandarin. So, the likeliest soundtrack to have Bruce Lee's voice on it is the Cantonese track. And from what I can tell, the Cantonese soundtracks have either got a very good Lee impressionist doing the dubbing, or it's Bruce Lee himself. On two of the three Mandarin tracks, it does not sound like Lee's voice.

Keep in mind that Hong Kong movies are normally filmed silent, with the dialog and sound effects looped in during post production. This is because the soundstages are in the middle of a dense city (the densest in the world actually), and it's very hard to isolate large backdrops from urban noises. So, in essence, these HK films are dubbed, but it just looks and sounds a lot worse in English because it's usually VERY poorly done. Between Mandarin and Cantonese, both of them use the same written language (and generally have the same number of syllables), so at least the lip movements will match even if the pronunciations and inflections are completely different.

For martial arts pics, I tend to think that the more jagged and rough sounding Cantonese dialect is more appropriate to the situation! Either way though, the Cantonese or Mandarin track will do a better job of capturing the mood of the scene than the English tracks do. The LA Times did a really interesting article on the decline of Cantonese in the U.S. and overseas. The article describes the Cantonese dialect as sounding like people are fighting all the time because of its rough edge and wilder use of slang, profanity, and metaphors.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...312,full.story

[Woochifer]

Armour of god was the first jackie chan movie i saw and got me hooked. am a huge chan fan and have been trying to find his movies outside of the crappy dimension films versions which are all you can find here. So far i've gotten the asian versions of OldBoy, Cashern, and Hero from ebay about a year or so before they were even talked about in the US. of course oldboy is being remade here, cashern was never released, and hero came out here over a year after being released in asia. I just picked up the latest police story and The Myth movies of jackie off the same place. I'll let you know how the video quality is of them when they get in with a review of the movies too. i have the accidental spy us release and its pretty crappy, but if you can get your hand on Gorgeous, i highly highly highly reccomend that one, its my all-time favorite jackie movie to date. although it is a cheesy love story as well, its got a great heart to it and two amazing fight sequences with the tiny white dude who's a part of (and the only white member of) the jackie chan stunt team.
Although the fight at the end of Who Am I? i think is pretty ridiculous too.

hmm... think i'll pop a jackie movie in after the rose bowl.

Man oh man, my first Jackie Chan experience was at a Chinatown theater when Snake In The Eagle's Shadow got its first U.S. screenings. Snake along with the subsequent follow-up, Drunken Master, were Jackie Chan's big breakthrough roles. It was the first time that he went all out with the kung fu/comedy formula, and it worked insanely well, establishing Jackie Chan as the true heir apparent to Bruce Lee, albeit with a very different screen persona. Before he found a success, Chan was slogging along in one mediocre role after another as one of the many wannabees trying to assume Bruce Lee's mantle by basically imitating him (remember Bruce Li or Bruce Le or Dragon Lee?).

I remember the theater was standing room only with lines going around the block. People were sitting in the aisles and I think the AC wasn't working, so they had to prop open the doors. But, there was an anticipation in the audience that I rarely see, because Snake had already been released overseas and broke Bruce Lee's box office records all over Asia. Everyone was there to see the new martial arts king. And it was weird because Chan's movies were so different from Lee's. The audience enjoyed themselves, but I could tell that a lot of people didn't know what to make of Jackie Chan, considering that Chan was effectively making fun of the genre established by guys like Bruce Lee, Jimmy Wang Yu, and Gordon Liu.

After a couple more hugely successful movies, Chan thought he was ready to conquer America and actually moved to California. But, stinkers like The Big Brawl and the Cannonball Run series snuffed out that ambition in a hurry. At that point, I stopped following the martial arts genre and Jackie Chan. Little did I know that upon his return to Hong Kong, he would totally revolutionize the martial arts genre by putting the films into modern settings and stretching the boundaries of stuntwork starting with the groundbreaking Police Story.

I did not discover these gems until I attended a Hong Kong film festival in 1992, and the Jackie Chan films chosen for that festival were Armour of God 2: Operation Condor, and Project A, Part II. IMO, those are his two best overall movies and they got me totally hooked on Jackie Chan. That same festival was also where I discovered the films of John Woo, Tsui Hark, Jet Li, and Chow Yun Fat. Needless to say, that was quite a groundshaking event in my moviegoing!

IMO, Chan's best fight scenes are probably the mall brawl in Police Story, his fight with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez in Wheels On Meals, and the rickshaw scene in Mr. Canton and Lady Rose (released as a dubbed atrocity in the U.S. as "Miracles").

It's sad, but I think that Jackie Chan is just about at the end of the road as a first-rate martial artist and stuntman. He's still an endearing presence on screen, but it's too much to ask a 51-year old guy to cheat death in every scene (with his stunt accident during the filming of Armour of God he literally did).

I think Drunken Master 2 and Police Story 3: Supercop were his last truly great movies. Drunken Master 2 (released in the U.S. as "Legend of the Drunken Master") is one film in particular that absolutely does not work with English dubbing, because it completely butchers Anita Mui's brilliant comedic role as the mother. Other movies that have come out since then have generally provided decent entertainment value, and I think it's great that Chan finally found fame and fortune in the U.S. For me though, I haven't been quite as enthralled with his more recent movies. This is why I've focused more on finding decent DVD versions of his Hong Kong films from about 1978 thru 1994, which include some of the greatest movies ever in this genre. The only movies from this period that are short of brilliant are Island of Fire (known in the U.S. as "The Prisoner"; just a generally bad and ridiculous movie), the U.S. production The Protector, Crime Story (slow pacing and not a lot of action), Heart of the Dragon (more of a drama than an action comedy; decent movie but well short of the others from that period), and probably City Hunter.

[Worf101]

This is the "REAL" Wooch.... right? I mean you're not some clone from another planet bent on infiltrating AR.com with insidious reviews? On a more serious note. I've always been a big Bruce Lee fan since the days of "The Green Hornet". Will be quite happy to buy this collection. Thanks for the heads up and please accept my sincere apologies if I've ever offended you in your wars with Lex. Seems I was quite wrong about that guy. He's obviously guite ill in the head.

Da Worfster

[Woochifer]

This is the "REAL" Wooch.... right? I mean you're not some clone from another planet bent on infiltrating AR.com with insidious reviews? On a more serious note. I've always been a big Bruce Lee fan since the days of "The Green Hornet". Will be quite happy to buy this collection. Thanks for the heads up and please accept my sincere apologies if I've ever offended you in your wars with Lex. Seems I was quite wrong about that guy. He's obviously guite ill in the head.

Da Worfster

Oh yeah, nothing but the one and only Wooch!

I went REALLY long-form on this one (brevity is not one of my strongsuits, in case you haven't noticed! ) because I've been waiting for something like to come out since I bought my first DVD player, and because I know from my viewings how much better these Bruce Lee movies are in their original unedited and undubbed versions. Gotta share the love, and spread the gospel to any other Bruce Lee fans who might be interested in seeing these movies in their rightful form.

No prob from me on Lex. You may be Sergeant at Arms, but you get along with everybody on this board! This board would be a better place if everyone asked "What would Worfster say?" before posting.

i think what was genius on jackie's part was that, once he found his niche/expertise, he never tried to be 'the next bruce.' i think it was in Fist of Fury, i read that jackie was a stunt performer in the movie and was the only volunteer to take a kick from bruce and be pulled by wires through a window (or a wall, i cant remember which). that and enter the dragon have the two jackie/bruce scenes in them (he got hit by a nun-chuck).

Chan was the stunt double in the scene where that karate master Suzuki (?) gets kicked through a screen wall and into a pond.

i completely forgot about meels on wheels! what a fun movie that was too! i've seen the dubbed miracles and am trying to find the original Lady Rose version. also loved drunken master, the sequence with the benches, just.... wow. and how he did it then, and still does, his whole flick up the bottle, cup, item and kick it at the badguy all in one continuous take. he talks about this particular move in the documentary My Stunts. another great scene, or stunt actually, (i think from the project a series?) is the clock tower fall!!! holy minkey! that was unbelievable. that was also a good scene to show how much jackie has influenced editing techniques in action movies, allowing (even in hollywood) overlap of action, repeating the same shot from multiple angles, although not to the extent done in hong kong movies.

Drunken Master 2 was amazing because of how many wide angle continuous shots were used in the stunt scenes. No opportunity whatsoever to insert a stunt double or do closeups where the action is especially dangerous -- it's all Jackie and his stunt team for real. I saw that movie with a friend of mine whose boyfriend works as a stuntman, and the stuntman just kept pausing the tape and rewinding and slo-mo'ing the action because he was so amazed by the stuntwork (as a stuntman, he knew how dangerous those scenes were and commented that it would be suicidal for him to ever work on any film with Chan).

I also have that My Stunts documentary -- VERY interesting DVD because I never knew that Chan used wires in his stunts. The clock tower fall was from the original Project A (one of the all-timer greats, and includes Yuen Bieu and Sammo Hung) and the most amazing stunt in that movie was the BOTCHED version of the clock tower fall that was shown in the outtakes -- yes, he had to do TWO takes on that stunt! (on the first take, the last awning did not break his fall, which mean that instead of falling on the flat side below his neck, which is "safe", he went splatto on his side and injured his arm after bouncing off the awning and getting twisted up)

It's remarkable to now see how much Hong Kong films have influenced action pics in Hollywood over the last decade. Even more so considering that a lot of the techniques used in HK films (such as the off-angle camera positions, the slo-mo, the flying building materials) were created because HK films had such low budgets and could not afford visual effects and CGI. (I think that John Woo's Hard Boiled had a total budget of $4 million, yet it featured some of the best high octane action scenes I've ever seen.)

just saw this special on ifc Chop Socky: Kung Fu in Cinema. and it was really interesting, if you can find it, check it out. they talked about how martial arts in film has gone through so many permutations and changes. how it started real, then moved on to the fantastical for the longest period, then was brought back to stark realism with bruce, who changed the philosophy that 'real' kungfu looks bad on film. he made real moves on film without any major superfluousness and made them look better than anything else. i think the flaw in his logic, however, was in himself. HE made real kungfu look badass, not everyone else would be (or has been able to) pull that off. while real kungfu worked for Bruce, it doesnt for anyone else. the flourish and fancy of movement is alot easier to pull off visually (even though harder, physically in some sense). i've done fight choreography for some indie films and have taken a lot of martial arts myself, and i can attest to this first hand. what's real does NOT look good on film with very few exceptions, and the exceptions arent in the movements, but who is performing them.

I caught the tail end of that IFC documentary once, and haven't seen it since then. I'll have to look for it again, it seemed very interesting.

Bruce Lee was not a big guy, but boy did he ever have screen presence! After watching a lot of Jackie Chan and "wire fu" films, rewatching the Bruce Lee films creates a huge contrast. You're right that his fight scenes look real, and Lee is amazing with how action much comes across with such economical fight choreography.

have you seen Ong Bak by any chance with Tony Jaa, and ong bak 2 (cant remember the name, but the sequel to it). now that has quite a few HOLY CRUD i can't believe he just did that! which i havent said since watching those early jackie movies. especially since tony jaa is sans wires completely (supposedly). while jackie always used wires, but used them in ways no one else had even thought too, and still does.

No I haven't, but I looked it up and now I'll have to check it out! Thanx for pointing me in that direction.

Thanks for the heads-up, Wooch. I've been a huge Bruce Lee fan for as long as I can remember and have seen all of his movies. I even thought Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story was terrific! Of course, casting Lauren Holly doesn't hurt . Nice review, brother. I'll have to get this.

Ah! Lauren Holly ... nice!

I've also been a huge Bruce Lee fan, but did not buy any of the U.S. versions of his first three movies because I can't stand dubbed movies. Almost right after I got my first DVD player, I bought Fist of Fury (known as "The Chinese Connection" in the U.S.) on a Hong Kong DVD, and while it had the original language tracks, the picture quality was not very good. The original U.S. DVD apparently has better picture quality, but only includes the English language track. This new DVD set is the best of both worlds, and it costs less than $40 for a five-DVD set. Whether the two gawdawful Game of Death movies count is debatable, but the set's still a bargain even if you only watch the first three movies.

Warner already put out the definitive version of Enter The Dragon a couple of years ago (this is the one that includes the two Bruce Lee documentaries and the reedited Game of Death fight sequences). So, if you get that two-disc set along with the Bruce Lee Ultimate Collection, you'll have the definitive versions of all of Bruce Lee's movies -- not a bad place to be! And if you've never seen the original language versions of these films, it will be like seeing these movies all over again for the first time.

[Kam]

Man oh man, my first Jackie Chan experience was at a Chinatown theater when Snake In The Eagle's Shadow got its first U.S. screenings. Snake along with the subsequent follow-up, Drunken Master, were Jackie Chan's big breakthrough roles. It was the first time that he went all out with the kung fu/comedy formula, and it worked insanely well, establishing Jackie Chan as the true heir apparent to Bruce Lee, albeit with a very different screen persona. Before he found a success, Chan was slogging along in one mediocre role after another as one of the many wannabees trying to assume Bruce Lee's mantle by basically imitating him (remember Bruce Li or Bruce Le or Dragon Lee?).

I remember the theater was standing room only with lines going around the block. People were sitting in the aisles and I think the AC wasn't working, so they had to prop open the doors. But, there was an anticipation in the audience that I rarely see, because Snake had already been released overseas and broke Bruce Lee's box office records all over Asia. Everyone was there to see the new martial arts king. And it was weird because Chan's movies were so different from Lee's. The audience enjoyed themselves, but I could tell that a lot of people didn't know what to make of Jackie Chan, considering that Chan was effectively making fun of the genre established by guys like Bruce Lee, Jimmy Wang Yu, and Gordon Liu.

After a couple more hugely successful movies, Chan thought he was ready to conquer America and actually moved to California. But, stinkers like The Big Brawl and the Cannonball Run series snuffed out that ambition in a hurry. At that point, I stopped following the martial arts genre and Jackie Chan. Little did I know that upon his return to Hong Kong, he would totally revolutionize the martial arts genre by putting the films into modern settings and stretching the boundaries of stuntwork starting with the groundbreaking Police Story.

I did not discover these gems until I attended a Hong Kong film festival in 1992, and the Jackie Chan films chosen for that festival were Armour of God 2: Operation Condor, and Project A, Part II. IMO, those are his two best overall movies and they got me totally hooked on Jackie Chan. That same festival was also where I discovered the films of John Woo, Tsui Hark, Jet Li, and Chow Yun Fat. Needless to say, that was quite a groundshaking event in my moviegoing!

IMO, Chan's best fight scenes are probably the mall brawl in Police Story, his fight with Benny "The Jet" Urquidez in Wheels On Meals, and the rickshaw scene in Mr. Canton and Lady Rose (released as a dubbed atrocity in the U.S. as "Miracles").

It's sad, but I think that Jackie Chan is just about at the end of the road as a first-rate martial artist and stuntman. He's still an endearing presence on screen, but it's too much to ask a 51-year old guy to cheat death in every scene (with his stunt accident during the filming of Armour of God he literally did).

I think Drunken Master 2 and Police Story 3: Supercop were his last truly great movies. Drunken Master 2 (released in the U.S. as "Legend of the Drunken Master") is one film in particular that absolutely does not work with English dubbing, because it completely butchers Anita Mui's brilliant comedic role as the mother. Other movies that have come out since then have generally provided decent entertainment value, and I think it's great that Chan finally found fame and fortune in the U.S. For me though, I haven't been quite as enthralled with his more recent movies. This is why I've focused more on finding decent DVD versions of his Hong Kong films from about 1978 thru 1994, which include some of the greatest movies ever in this genre. The only movies from this period that are short of brilliant are Island of Fire (known in the U.S. as "The Prisoner"; just a generally bad and ridiculous movie), the U.S. production The Protector, Crime Story (slow pacing and not a lot of action), Heart of the Dragon (more of a drama than an action comedy; decent movie but well short of the others from that period), and probably City Hunter.

i think what was genius on jackie's part was that, once he found his niche/expertise, he never tried to be 'the next bruce.' i think it was in Fist of Fury, i read that jackie was a stunt performer in the movie and was the only volunteer to take a kick from bruce and be pulled by wires through a window (or a wall, i cant remember which). that and enter the dragon have the two jackie/bruce scenes in them (he got hit by a nun-chuck).

i completely forgot about meels on wheels! what a fun movie that was too! i've seen the dubbed miracles and am trying to find the original Lady Rose version. also loved drunken master, the sequence with the benches, just.... wow. and how he did it then, and still does, his whole flick up the bottle, cup, item and kick it at the badguy all in one continuous take. he talks about this particular move in the documentary My Stunts. another great scene, or stunt actually, (i think from the project a series?) is the clock tower fall!!! holy minkey! that was unbelievable. that was also a good scene to show how much jackie has influenced editing techniques in action movies, allowing (even in hollywood) overlap of action, repeating the same shot from multiple angles, although not to the extent done in hong kong movies.

just saw this special on ifc Chop Socky: Kung Fu in Cinema. and it was really interesting, if you can find it, check it out. they talked about how martial arts in film has gone through so many permutations and changes. how it started real, then moved on to the fantastical for the longest period, then was brought back to stark realism with bruce, who changed the philosophy that 'real' kungfu looks bad on film. he made real moves on film without any major superfluousness and made them look better than anything else. i think the flaw in his logic, however, was in himself. HE made real kungfu look badass, not everyone else would be (or has been able to) pull that off. while real kungfu worked for Bruce, it doesnt for anyone else. the flourish and fancy of movement is alot easier to pull off visually (even though harder, physically in some sense). i've done fight choreography for some indie films and have taken a lot of martial arts myself, and i can attest to this first hand. what's real does NOT look good on film with very few exceptions, and the exceptions arent in the movements, but who is performing them.

have you seen Ong Bak by any chance with Tony Jaa, and ong bak 2 (cant remember the name, but the sequel to it). now that has quite a few HOLY CRUD i can't believe he just did that! which i havent said since watching those early jackie movies. especially since tony jaa is sans wires completely (supposedly). while jackie always used wires, but used them in ways no one else had even thought too, and still does.

so much fun.

[topspeed]

Thanks for the heads-up, Wooch. I've been a huge Bruce Lee fan for as long as I can remember and have seen all of his movies. I even thought Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story was terrific! Of course, casting Lauren Holly doesn't hurt . Nice review, brother. I'll have to get this.