24: Day 5 Discussion Thread

[MomurdA]

Is it just me, or in a couple of weeks we should have the rest of the cast of RoboCop on board.

I'm just waiting for Peter Weller to ask Logan what the "Prime Directive" is for his next mission.

Thats great ! Unfortunately i missed the first five minutes last night, so I guess the Sec. is dead now?

[topspeed]

Is it just me, or in a couple of weeks we should have the rest of the cast of RoboCop on board.

I'm just waiting for Peter Weller to ask Logan what the "Prime Directive" is for his next mission.

I noticed that too! That 70's Show is shutting down, maybe they can squeeze Kurtwood Smith into an episode or two?

You've got to hand it to Jack, the boy has industrial strength cajones to get on a diplomatic flight all by himself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but on a diplomatic flight, doesn't that mean he has no rights as an American?

Does anybody know who the group of guys are that are pulling Logan's strings? Do they represent corporate america? The oil cartel? Cub Scouts Den 313?

[Groundbeef]

I am not sure about the "rights of American Citizens" on Diplomatic Flights. Depends on how they classify the plane. It is in American Airspace, so that may play a part.

Is the plane considered "soverign (sp)".

Does it really matter when you have a gun on an airplane? I think unless you are a DECLARED armed official, you are pretty much in deep s*it if you bring a firearm and commendeer a flight.

Also, they way the casting is going, no doubt it will be "Dick Jones" who is pulling the strings.

This show makes me want to watch RoboCop again. Ahhhh, so campy, yet so satisfying at the same time.

[Woochifer]

Wow! Just four more episodes to go! Now we got YET ANOTHER layer of baddies to sift through, the guys that are really pulling Prez Logan's strings. Like the rest of you, I can just see the camera panning back to reveal Kurtwood Smith and Ronny Cox puffing away on a stogie, and the VP walking in on them for the Robocop reunion!

While this season has been another great thrill ride, I think some of the story threads are veering dangerously close to the edge right now. Push the envelope any further and it could turn 24 into camp. I'm still hooked, but I think that the really taut interpersonal tension that the writers injected into the early episodes is pretty much gone, and now it's bouncing around from one impossible situation into another.

In a way, the story has not evolved as well as I had hoped after the big revelation with Logan, and last night's episode with Jack hijacking a diplomatic flight was really stretching things! Now, it's a matter of whether Jack's co-opted jet can outduel an F-18 armed with air-to-air missiles (but hey, in the Season 5 prequel, Jack managed to outrace a group of baddies in a Bimmer by gunning a Toyota Avalon in reverse!).

Still though, seeing Chloe and Bill setting up CTU-in-exile was pretty cool, and as laughable and ridiculous as it is, I loved seeing Chloe tweaking with the fate of the world from a freakin' hotel bar armed with only a laptop and a wireless card (not to mention a well-placed Tazer gun to ward off any unwanted advances -- how cool was that, and Chloe didn't break stride)! Oh and by the way, someone needs to send the Alcoholic Beverage Control officers to that hotel. What the hell are they doing serving drinks after 2am?

I'm also really enjoying the tension between the First Lady, the Prez, and Novick. You just KNOW something's going to break loose there!

And from the week before, I wonder if Secretary Heller really off'd himself, or if he lived through that plunge (I would have given much better odds if Jack had been driving the Secretary's Toyota Avalon).

And last night, where the hell was Curtis, Henderson, Audrey, and Agent Pierce? I mean, Buchanan was paraded through CTU like five minutes after he was apprehended, yet Curtis and Robocop haven't shown up yet? What up with that? It's not like they can go for a late night burger run or camp out at Canter's with L.A. under martial law.

So anyway, we're now in the stretch run. What do you all think is going to happen? I have a feeling that the First Lady might do Logan in, and that somehow, the Chinese are going to put Jack back on the run by the time 7am rolls around. Even though the press has been reporting that Keifer is signed on for three more seasons, could all that just be a smokescreen leading up to Jack Bauer's demise? A couple of months ago, there were a lot of rumors about Edward Norton taking over the lead role on 24. At this point, anything's possible!

[dean_martin]

OK, so I finally watched an episode last night. You say the early stuff was even better? It was a tension filled hour. I take it I don't know even half the players in the series. What struck me last night is that I could read just about all the characters except for the Chief of Staff. One minute his expression suggests he's sincere in getting to the bottom of what's really going on. The next he seems determined to discover the truth for his own gain. I liked that. His close-ups were the best. I'll have to go back and pick up on everything. I think re-runs of early episodes are already airing so it shouldn't be too hard. Heck, I didn't get into my favorite series of all time ("Twin Peaks") until it started running on Bravo.

[Woochifer]

OK, so I finally watched an episode last night. You say the early stuff was even better? It was a tension filled hour. I take it I don't know even half the players in the series. What struck me last night is that I could read just about all the characters except for the Chief of Staff. One minute his expression suggests he's sincere in getting to the bottom of what's really going on. The next he seems determined to discover the truth for his own gain. I liked that. His close-ups were the best. I'll have to go back and pick up on everything. I think re-runs of early episodes are already airing so it shouldn't be too hard. Heck, I didn't get into my favorite series of all time ("Twin Peaks") until it started running on Bravo.

I think the two-night four-hour premiere back in January was some of the most riveting stuff that 24 has delivered to date. What I liked about the tension created in that early plot thread was that you had terrorists and civilians PLUS a lot of peril that directly affected Jack and people very close to him. As the season's moved along, they've started adding more baddies and upped the stakes. But, I think some of the situations have gotten very close to ridiculous, and some plot threads were allowed to fray a bit for sake of creating plot twists and cliffhangers.

I still think that the first 13 hours from Day One of 24 remains the best that the series has offered up so far, because it was so simple. Jack had to prevent assassins from killing Senator Palmer on the day of the presidential primary. But, the assassins kidnapped his daughter and directed Jack to carry out the assassination or else they'll kill her. All the while someone at CTU was working with them, so Jack had to outwit the assassins, save Senator Palmer, find his daughter, and uncover who at CTU was the mole. No nukes or nerve gas or biobombs or planes getting shot down, just a lot of people in peril with unbearably tense and nerve-wracking suspense. Unfortunately, Fox only committed to broadcasting 13 episodes at the start of the season, so it feels like that season was written as two distinct parts, rather than one continuous narrative.

But, you should still rent the first season because the first half at least is damn good stuff. Or you can just watch A&E, because I think they're still broadcasting blocs of 24 on Mondays. WGN also shows reruns, but I don't know their schedule.

[dean_martin]

Thanks for the background info, Wooch. Somehow I saw the whole last episode but missed the previews for the next one. I don't think Logan and his puppet master really thought through the shoot-down-the-plane plan. I mean you can only cover up so much, right? Anyhow, I'm watchin' next week.

Oh, and what's the story on the Chief of Staff? Is he the pres's lap dog, a straight-up do the right thing kinda guy, or does he have his own agenda?

[Woochifer]

Thanks for the background info, Wooch. Somehow I saw the whole last episode but missed the previews for the next one. I don't think Logan and his puppet master really thought through the shoot-down-the-plane plan. I mean you can only cover up so much, right? Anyhow, I'm watchin' next week.

Oh, and what's the story on the Chief of Staff? Is he the pres's lap dog, a straight-up do the right thing kinda guy, or does he have his own agenda?

At this point, there are a lot of things in the plotline that don't make sense if you think them through! Just click off the logic button in your brain and enjoy the ride! The writers are just trying to keep you hooked and carried over to the next episode at this point.

Mike Novick, that Chief of Staff, is actually one of only two remaining cast members from Day One. (Secret Service Agent Pierce was the other, but he got "reassigned" a couple of hours ago) He formerly worked as an advisor to Senator/President Palmer, until he did some stuff behind Palmer's back and got fired back in Day Two. He turned up in Day Three as an advisor to Senator Keeler who was running against President Palmer. Novick is well intentioned, but he's a politco who prefers to work behind the scenes, and prefers persuasion over confrontation. He might seem slimey at first glance, but he'll usually try to do the right thing, though it's questionable how far he'll stick his neck out.

[Woochifer]

Alright, we're down to the season finale tonight! Someone down at ABC though needs to get fired for deciding to air the series finale to Alias directly opposite 24! For a serialized drama, I think Fox got it right by airing the entire season on the same night of the week nonstop with no repeats or preemptions. People I know who tried following Alias got frustrated by the repeats and schedule changes. I sort of followed Alias during the first season, but the narrative really got messed up when they decided to skip forward in the timeline.

Anyway, back to 24, the last few weeks have been quite interesting though a bit uneven at times (that whole plot thread with the recording and Miles somehow erasing it after Chloe had the device hooked up to her computer for at least five minutes comes dangerously close to a jump the shark moment).

I love how they've now setup the First Lady as one of many potential protagonists with an axe to grind with Prez Logan (or as Agent Pierce so eloquently spouted in perhaps the best moment of the season when he called President Logan, "Charles"!). And they've now got a lot of others on board as well, and everything leads up to the 7am departure of former President Palmer's funeral casket.

Just think of how many potential presidential assassins we now have on board -- Jack, Agent Pierce, Mike Novick, Martha Logan, Secretary Heller (if he manages to climb out of his hospital bed), Audrey Heller, and my personal dark horse for a surprise reappearance tonight, Wayne Palmer.

And I have a feeling that the identity of that mysterious group pulling Logan's strings will also hold some surprises -- like what if it turns out that this Graham character is in fact the Attorney General?

Despite some stumbles down the stretch, this has probably been the best season of 24 overall from end-to-end since Day Two. For one thing, the plot threads focusing on the White House have been far more interesting this season than any of the previous four. Having Logan as a shadowy character that could not be counted on to do the right thing, and then ultimately revealed as the villian was a brilliant decision. And I think Gregory Itzin absolutely should get an Emmy nomination for his role as Logan. As illogical as that plot twist with Logan could have been, Itzin made the character and that entire spectrum from spineless buffoon to duplicitous mastermind plausible.

In a way, Senator/President Palmer was an overly idealized character. You KNEW that he was a good guy, and you knew that he would always have Jack's back. But, that also made him less interesting and more predictable (constrast that with his ex-wife Sherry, who was a much murkier character). I read an article that described David Palmer as the president we wish we had, and Charles Logan as the nightmare president that we hope we never see.

[Woochifer]

Remember that 24 starts an HOUR earlier tonight at 8pm (PT/ET)!

[superpanavision70mm]

Interesting how something that is a TV show can show up in the FAVORITE FILM thread...key word: FILM.

[Woochifer]

Interesting how something that is a TV show can show up in the FAVORITE FILM thread...key word: FILM.

If the admins start up a Favorite TV Shows forum, I'll be glad to post it there. Otherwise, there are plenty of other TV threads that have been posted onto this forum over the years.

But, if you want to get technical, 24 is produced using film cameras and film stock, so in that sense it would qualify as a "favorite film." But, when a movie like Star Wars episodes I to III or Sin City is produced using digital video cameras, what forum would they belong in?

[superpanavision70mm]

Digital.

Technically you are correct, but keep in mind that we are talking not just about film as a format, but also film as a medium. Film = feature film or movie. You don't see 24 getting any nominations at the Oscars now do you? You also don't see SIN CITY on 7pm Tuesday nights each week either.

Thanks for pointing out things on that behalf though Wooch, but I'll always be smarter smart%$^ than you.

[Woochifer]

Digital.

Technically you are correct, but keep in mind that we are talking not just about film as a format, but also film as a medium. Film = feature film or movie. You don't see 24 getting any nominations at the Oscars now do you? You also don't see SIN CITY on 7pm Tuesday nights each week either.

Like I said, if you want to limit the discussions on this forum, feel free to bring it up with the admins. In the absence of a TV-specific forum, this is where those discussions go and have gone long before you first signed on.

And with your definition of "FILM", I suppose that short subjects and documentaries that were initially aired on HBO don't count as "FILMS" (remember it's not TV, it's HBO!)? Or do they count as "FILMS" because there are Oscars for those categories? Or would they not count as "FILMS" if I saw them on my local PBS affiliate, which has a weekly series devoted to them?

Thanks for pointing out things on that behalf though Wooch, but I'll always be smarter smart%$^ than you.

Hmmm, but I would think that a "smarter smart%$^" would have figured this out before someone else had to point it out! Oh well, maybe another alternative interpretation is in order here, or perhaps a better "keyword" thesaurus ...

[KaiWinters]

Jack is truly on a "slow boat to China". Wow what a cliche and I get to be the first to use it.

But now we have to wait nearly 8 months for the start of the new season...yuck lol.

[Groundbeef]

Jack is truly on a "slow boat to China". Wow what a cliche and I get to be the first to use it.

But now we have to wait nearly 8 months for the start of the new season...yuck lol.

Well Duhhh, this series is filmed in "Real Time". How long does it take a freighter to get to China? At least a couple of months. Plus then figure in the time to clear customs, and get off loaded.

Anyway, the finale was good. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I have a nagging suspision that Logan somehow sold Jack to the Chinese. Remeber, he did have a plan to "get Bauer".

I think that will come out next season.

[topspeed]

The whole Chinese thing was a pretty cool way to set-up next season. If anyone says they thought the kidnappers were anyone else other than the group behind Logan, they are lying. When the Chinese Ambassador(?) said "Did you think we'd forget?", I was thinking, "Well I sure did!"

BTW, did anyone else wonder how Audrey suddenly had two good arms? Wasn't it just a few hours ago that Christopher damn near sliced the flippin' thing off requiring a tourniquet?
Ooops!

Two of my favorite moments during the finale were:
1) Blowing away Christopher. Who needs the court system? Jack delivers justice...no waiting !
2) Martha's look as Charles was being arrested by the Secret Service. That was perfect, especially after the coward hit her.

Great season from beginning to end and apparently ABC noted how successful it was to run a show like this non-stop. Lost will now be run from Jan to May non-stop next season.

[topspeed]

Interesting how something that is a TV show can show up in the FAVORITE FILM thread...key word: FILM.

[Woochifer]

Wow! So Jack got Shanghai'd!

Even though it would be more emotionally satisfying to see Jack finally get his life back and march off into the sunset with Audrey (okay, it would be really cool to see him go off with Chloe and all her drama). But, sugary happy endings (like how Alias concluded) are not 24's style and wow did they ever setup one helluva Day Six!

TS, actually I immediately suspected that the Chinese agents grabbed Jack. For one thing, I'd been waiting for them to enter the picture all season long. (In post #29, I suspected that they would reenter the picture before the end of the season; I just didn't expect that Jack would get packed into a shipping container and exported back east!) I think the writers tipped off the cliffhanger last week when Henderson mentioned how Jack failed to cover his tracks when the Chinese were after him. The whole reason Jack had to fake his own death last season and go into hiding was to keep the Chinese from doing exactly what they did last night. Henderson bringing up that subject was the first mention in a long time that the Chinese were still after Jack.

I thought that last night's finale would end with either Logan getting assassinated (when they mentioned that Wayne Palmer would not attend the ceremony, I thought that potentially hinted at an assassination attempt by Palmer) or something bad happening to Jack. Turned out that something REALLY bad happened to Jack.

Lot of great highlights in the season finale. The First Lady did one of the all-time power plays last night, but geez what the hell was up with Logan taking care of business in ... oh what was it ... like FIVE minutes?! That smirk on her face was a class F-U to her hubby.

And when Jack faked out Henderson by giving him an empty gun, that was a great student-besting-the-teacher moment. Henderson almost seemed proud that Jack could be that coniving. I hope that they manage to bring Chloe and her ex-husband back next season. Way too many angles that they can pursue with that couple!

The only disappointment was that we did not find out anything new about Graham and that shadowy group that Logan plotted with. I guess that will have to wait until next season!

As for next season, the fansites a few months ago were rife with rumors about Edward Norton joining the cast next season. The way that this season ended, he would be a perfect addition. With Jack somewhere in China, the plot could go in so many directions. CTU (or whatever agency) could send someone after Jack, but would it be a rescue or search-and-destroy mission? Could you imagine Edward Norton playing that kind of shadowy role, with Jack trying to figure out whether his purported rescuer is fishing him out to save him or to kill him?

Oh man, but now we have to wait until JANUARY 2007?! Argh! I guess I'll have to play that 24 video game in the meantime ...

[KaiWinters]

Well Duhhhhh yourself. That is an old saying that actually pertained to what was happening.
Have you never heard anyone say "Take a slow boat to China"?

[KaiWinters]

Remember the previous episode when Jack had to work with Henderson to find out about that bad guy. Henderson went into his house and as they were getting ready to crash the party the bad guy gave Henderson a gun. The first thing he did was pull the mag and check the ammo. I can not believe he would not do that especially with Jack giving him the gun. I wonder if something is up with Henderson. They even panned his dead mug at the end. I was expecting him to open an eye an wink at the camera...jk but the thought made me chuckle.

The pres' wife is one hell of a woman...banging the bastard to delay him. The look on her face was indeed priceless as they led him away.

Jack's planting that chip on the pres' was pretty neat. They have him dead to rights now lol.
Waiting until Jan will be rough though lol.

[Woochifer]

Well Duhhhhh yourself. That is an old saying that actually pertained to what was happening.
Have you never heard anyone say that?

You're right, there are a few old sayings that pertain to sailors getting forcibly conscripted into working on ships bound for China in the late-1800s. That used to happen in west coast port cities. Supposedy, there's still an underground tunnel system in Portland that was used more than 100 years ago to kidnap and smuggle conscripts onto those ships. Maybe there's one in L.A. as well, otherwise how would Jack have wound up on a freighter in less than 10 minutes?

[Groundbeef]

Well Duhhhhh yourself. That is an old saying that actually pertained to what was happening.
Have you never heard anyone say "Take a slow boat to China"?

Wow, a little catty I'd say. The joke loses any humor at all when explained, but here it goes.

The next season doesn't start until 2007. The episodes are in "Real Time" .......
So, Jack would have to be on a "Slow Boat To China" in order for it to take 7 months to get it filmed.

The more it is analyzed, the less funny it gets.

Sorry to have p issed on your parade.

[KaiWinters]

lol most jokes or humor gets washed out when someone trys to analyze it.
it was merely a moment to use a funny comment but the moment is over.

I, for one, wonder how anyone can survive such a day as Jack and the clan had this season. I have had long days at work but sheesh that was a day to beat all days. I often forget that all this takes place in one day.

I especially like the realism, or at least what I would consider to be the right way to do the things he has to do. No "Mr. Goody Two Shoes" here. He shoots Henderson's wife, nearly has his "love" tortured, shoots bad guys in the back with no warning or notice and gives over the phone tutorial on how to kill a person..."be sure to cut hard to cut the esphagus and carotid artery"..."but I am an engineer" lol great lines.

For a tv show I like the portrayal of the brutality. It has more of a sense of realism than most other shows out there.

[Groundbeef]

I, for one, wonder how anyone can survive such a day as Jack and the clan had this season. I have had long days at work but sheesh that was a day to beat all days. I often forget that all this takes place in one day.

I especially like the realism, or at least what I would consider to be the right way to do the things he has to do.

For a tv show I like the portrayal of the brutality. It has more of a sense of realism than most other shows out there.

Actually, for me I have had to suspend all sense of reality to enjoy the show. But that being said, I DO enjoy the show.

As far as "realism" please. How many times does Jack get knocked out in a season? At least 2 or 3. Your looking at a minimum of a few HOURS before you are functional at the level he is supposed to be at. And don't forget Audry, who just 4 hours prior suffered a MAJOR injury to an artery in her arm. But alas, she doesn't even need stiches. Just a fresh bandage and all better.

And the Nerve Gas in the facility? Cleared and workers back before the bodies are even cold. Hell, they closed the post office for 2 days here because some idiot shipped baby powder and the bottle leaked.

And the speed at which Govt works on this show is unbelivable. I can't get my drivers license renewed in less than 2 hours, and yet Homeland Security can take OVER CTU in 1 hour, and get their people trained on proprietary computer systems in the next. Never mind that it was after 5:00 when we all are aware thats when most Govt business gets handled.

This show is entertainment. There are very little if any parts that are remotely "real".

That being said, I am a watcher, and enjoy the program.