A Voice Crying in the Wilderness

[emesbee]

I often listened to Berlioz' "Symphonie Fantastique," but rarely listened to the third movement on any LP of the piece that I owned, as the surface noise almost always marred the very soft, and extremely quiet parts of that movement.

Funnily enough, I also have a vinyl recording of that piece of music, and rarely played the third movement for exactly the same reasons.

Certainly there are bad sounding CDs, just as there are poor sounding LPs, but its usually down to poor mastering. Sometimes the recording engineers just didn't care. The CD medium really does have the potential to sound very good indeed. There are enough well mastered CDs around to atest to that.

[jrhymeammo]

CD sounds consistant from the first track to the last.
I think the problem is that most of cartridges have not been mounted properly,
Tangent/linear tracking arms fixes that, but a proper aligment can eliminate most of this inner groove distortion people talk about.
But not everybody wanna mess around with gears as others.

It's kinda like this:

Analog Lovers like Bernd enjoys taking his time to roll-up his finest kine into a well manicured splif. While Feanor loves shoving his seeded shwag into a resin caked bowl, and taking it straight to the head. Me? I hate drugs.

JRA

[Feanor]

...
Analog Lovers like Bernd enjoys taking his time to roll-up his finest kine into a well manicured splif. While Feanor loves shoving his seeded shwag into a resin caked bowl, and taking it straight to the head. Me? I hate drugs.

JRA

Good grief.

But I love metaphors, afterall.

[emaidel]

Analog Lovers like Bernd enjoys taking his time to roll-up his finest kine into a well manicured splif. While Feanor loves shoving his seeded shwag into a resin caked bowl, and taking it straight to the head. Me? I hate drugs.

JRA

????

Aside from the above-quoted bit of strangeness, I wanted to add another item regarding 2-channel SACD.

Telarc's original digital recordings were made via the Soundstream digital tape recorder, that sampled at a rate of 50K/sec. The LP's made from these digital sources were outstanding, but the CD's sounded a bit lame. The reason? The downsampling from the 50K rate to the 44.1K rate simply didn't work very well, offering, to use Telarc's own terms, "sonic artifacts" that were unmusical.

The DSD recording system, and the SACD playback medium has solved that. Telarc has remastered a handful of their "historic" recordings originally done on the Soundstream device, and made them available as some truly outstanding SACD's, since the DSD process, with its 2,8 million/sec sampling rate captures everything the Soundstream recorder did back in the 70's, but has never been realized until now.

I've had a number of discussions with Paul Blakemore of Telarc who is the primary engineer on these remasters. Not all of the older Soundstream tapes are in good enough condition to affect a decent transfer, and there is a tremendous amount of work entailed in the remastering. Add to that the fact that people no longer snap up Telarc discs as they once did, as well as a far more limited audience for the product too.

Still, there are a couple of sonic knockouts: certainly the Mahler 2nd ("Resurrection") with Leonard Slatkin conducting, and with a knockout performance by the inestimable Kathleen Battle (sans any of her shenanigans) Tchaikovsky's 4th, originally released by itself on a CD, is now coupled with Shostakovitch's 5th, and that SACD is another gem.

I don't own all of the Soundstream/SACD's, but all are exclusively 2-channel, as the original source material was 2-channel. If you own any of these older Telarc CD's, you're in for a real treat with the SACD remasters. Even the CD layers on the new discs sound much better, due to the use of the DSD system.

[Feanor]

...
My next purchase will be a two channel SACD player that does well on Redbook as well. I am leaning towards buying a used EMM Labs CD-SA having heard one at length at a friend's house. It also has one very desirable feature to me: high 4 volt output like my GamuT. No need for line stage. FWIW, Telarc uses EMM Labs stuff themselves for the initial ADC process as well as monitoring.

rw

Thanks for supporting Canadian industry. From what I read, ( but unfortunately have not heard), the Ed Meitner products are among the crème de la crème of digital equipment. Definitely something to appeal to Republican sensibilities , (not to suggest you're a Republican).

With your high resolution equipment I should think you'd find the hi rez playback a treat or even a revelation.
...

[Feanor]

....

I keep a turntable for the same reasons you do: some material is unavailable. Unlike you, however, I sometimes mess the "little quirks" of the medium. As a case in point, I refer you to an episode that occurred years ago when I was taping a friend's LP. An earthquake ensued shortly after takeoff, and caused a number of skips and such that I started the project anew when the tremors ended. To this day, I miss that recording...the nostalgia alone would have been worth the effort.....

I have LPs and it was my intention at one point to transcribe them to digital format, (say FLAC 24/48), but I haven't got around to it.

Meanwhile I suggested to my wife that I move my LPs to the basement, but she said, 'No', she likes the look of the row of LPs on the lower shelf: it gives a sort of ballist to the appearance.
...

[Ajani]

Like many of the posters here, I'll agree that much of the complaints about CDs is really due to poor recordings and not any inherent limitations of the format itself...

LPs are making a modest comeback, in part due to the fact that some audiophiles love all those PITA rituals required by the Vinyls Gods...

As for CDs & SACDs dying - ummm... well.... to be honest, it wouldn't affect me, I gave up on the CD medium about 2 years ago... I've totally embraced the music server world...

I'm thrilled to see how many major HiFi mags are devoting time, space and awards to Music Servers now... I guess the HiFi community has finally realized that you can have bit perfect hi-fidelity recordings using a Music Server instead of some type of optical disc playback device... Also, the HiFi industry has realized that in addition to producing the highest quality Music Servers at reasonable prices, they can also produce severely overpriced crapola under the title of "High-End Music Servers"...

SACD as a format will die eventually, but its goal of producing a Higher Resolution format than CD will be accomplished in other mediums, such as Music Servers.

If your idea of a Music Server is limited to an ipod loaded with low quality MP3s, then you are in for the shock of a lifetime oneday...

[Auricauricle]

Have you seen the new Tivoli Net Works Radio? Could be a sign of things to come....

http://www.tivoliaudio.com/home.php

[Ajani]

Have you seen the new Tivoli Net Works Radio? Could be a sign of things to come....

http://www.tivoliaudio.com/home.php

For half that price I'd opt for the Squeezebox Boom:

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_boom.html

[emaidel]

I have to confess complete and total ignorance. I don't know what a music server is, nor how it works. I know it's computer-based, but that's about as far as I can go. Just what is it, and how can I utilize it in my audio system, or do I have to buy a new one?

[Auricauricle]

Ah, but AJ, the wood....Makes period instruments so...woody....Juneau?

[blackraven]

Emaidel, in simple terms, a music server is just a big hard drive to store music, (basically a giant IPOD) compressed or uncompressed. It is the future of Audio and Video. My problem with it is what happens when the HD fails. I've had 2 HD's fail in my home computer in the past few years. Then you lose your library of music. Some one will have to develop an online storage site for all your music should your HD fail. Or you will have to have a back up drive with copies of all your music.

There are a lot of benefits of a music server with storage and cataloging your music files.

Me personally, I like being able to flip through my CD's rather than scrolling through a computer menu. Plus my Cd's are portable but with large Jump drives, portable HD's and IPODS you can do the same. I also like to read the lyrics and recording info included in CD's.

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/artic...AN/536/v/1/sp/

[emaidel]

Thanks, blackraven. What you've described is more or less what I thought a music server was. Still a question: how does the material stored on the HD get played back through one's audio system? Do the computer and audio systems have to be interconnected? If so, that's a pretty major reason I'd have a probleme with one.

[Feanor]

Emaidel, in simple terms, a music server is just a big hard drive to store music, (basically a giant IPOD) compressed or uncompressed. It is the future of Audio and Video. ...

A "music server" is just an over-priced and/or under-powered computer. Any $300 computer plus a large hard drive and, say, a SqueezeBox, (among many options), is a much better alternative.

[blackraven]

Yes, the computer needs to connect to the stereo. Thats my problem as well. I dont want to have to have a computer next to my audio equipment. (this is where wireless comes in but then you have to have your computer turned on all the time and I'm not so sure about sound quality of wireless). You can always use a small laptop and an external HD or a dedicated music server like that Cambridge Audio 640H which is a CDP as well.

[Ajani]

Emaidel, in simple terms, a music server is just a big hard drive to store music, (basically a giant IPOD) compressed or uncompressed. It is the future of Audio and Video. My problem with it is what happens when the HD fails. I've had 2 HD's fail in my home computer in the past few years. Then you lose your library of music. Some one will have to develop an online storage site for all your music should your HD fail. Or you will have to have a back up drive with copies of all your music.

There are a lot of benefits of a music server with storage and cataloging your music files.

Me personally, I like being able to flip through my CD's rather than scrolling through a computer menu. Plus my Cd's are portable but with large Jump drives, portable HD's and IPODS you can do the same. I also like to read the lyrics and recording info included in CD's.

http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/artic...AN/536/v/1/sp/

What BR said is essentially the gist of a Music Server... instead of having thousands of CDs lying around, you can have all of that music stored on one hard-drive in CD quality... Think of it like a much much much better Sony 400Disc Mega CD Changer...

Now on to BR's complaints about a music server...

Backup is easy, you can buy an extra hard-drive for very little now and simply keep a copy of all your music on that OR you can pay a monthly fee and keep all your music backed up online - YES, sites already do that... OR if you already have all your music on CDs, then you can just keep the CDs in storage as backup...

The reasons to use a Music Server:

1) Extremely Convenient... if you've ever used an iPod or Itunes (Windows Media Player etc..) to play music, then you've experienced a music server... It allows you to access ANY song in your music collection without getting up to change CDs/LPs/Tapes...

2) You can easily create and save playlists of songs... So for example I have Reggae, Rock and Romance Playlists that each contain at least 30 songs that I would like to hear one after the other... So when I go home I just select a playlist, hit play and put down the remote for the next few hours... I even have playlists for my favourite artists...

3) You can easily search through your music collection to find songs by artists you didn't even know/remember that you have... Trust me, I didn't know that I had several songs until I switched to using a Music Server...

[Ajani]

Thanks, blackraven. What you've described is more or less what I thought a music server was. Still a question: how does the material stored on the HD get played back through one's audio system? Do the computer and audio systems have to be interconnected? If so, that's a pretty major reason I'd have a probleme with one.

Yes, you would need to connect the computer/music server to your audio system... you can run cables from a computer to your stereo (which I don't recommend unless they are located in the same room) OR you can use a small streaming device such as the squeezebox Classic or even an Apple Airport Express or AppleTV to wirelessly retrieve the music from your computer... (whether wired or wireless, the sound quality is the same... if you have a really crappy wireless connection then you might have dropouts in the signal though)...

If you already have a computer and a wireless network, then I'd suggest a Squeezebox Classic $300 or Duet $400 as an easy way to setup a Music Server:

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html

[blackraven]

I think music servers will be embraced by the younger generation that has grown up with IPOD's and computers. I'm old school and still miss the feel and look of LP's with the album cover art, lyrics, etc.

I also don't mind getting off my a$$ to change out a CD. I do mind having to down load or copy my music to a server. My time is much more valuable to me. But all the benefits of a music server stated by Ajani are true. But if the CD meduim does go by the wayside, you will have to down load music from the internet which I'm not to keen on. Now my kids love to do that.

[Ajani]

I think music servers will be embraced by the younger generation that has grown up with IPOD's and computers. I'm old school and still miss the feel and look of LP's with the album cover art, lyrics, etc.

I also don't mind getting off my a$$ to change out a CD. I do mind having to down load or copy my music to a server. My time is much more valuable to me. But all the benefits of a music server stated by Ajani are true. But if the CD meduim does go by the wayside, you will have to down load music from the internet which I'm not to keen on. Now my kids love to do that.

Yep, Music Servers tend to appeal immediately to younger generations because they are already used to using them in one form or another (whether an ipod or just running itunes on their computer)...

And sadly part of the reason why music servers catch on so well with younger generations is because of extreme laziness: we don't want to get off our @$$es to change a CD or worse yet a LP... Just as we refuse to go to a library and read a book for research, when we can just type something in google or wikipedia and get immediate results... I'm not sure whether what we gain with this internet age outweighs what we lose..

[Feanor]

Thanks, blackraven. What you've described is more or less what I thought a music server was. Still a question: how does the material stored on the HD get played back through one's audio system? Do the computer and audio systems have to be interconnected? If so, that's a pretty major reason I'd have a probleme with one.

Yes of course, they do have to be interconnected. Ultimately the sound has to come into you preamp as another RCA/XLR input, or into your DAC typically as S/PDIF input -- in that regard it is not different than any other source.

There are numerous and some pretty esoteric options delivering computer output to your pre or DAC, but some of the simplest and most elegant are the Slimdevices options. You computer can be in a different room from your hifi system.

A recent thread touched on this subject.

[Feanor]

Yep, Music Servers tend to appeal immediately to younger generations because they are already used to using them in one form or another (whether an ipod or just running itunes on their computer)...

And sadly part of the reason why music servers catch on so well with younger generations is because of extreme laziness: we don't want to get off our @$$es to change a CD or worse yet a LP...

You don't have to be young, come to that. Witness me.

[blackraven]

LOL, I just got a new catalog from www.onecall.com and it has an add in it for an LG Netflix Streaming Blu-Ray player that reads-

"Your reason to never leave the couch"

The world is heading in the direction depicted in the well done Animated movie - Walle

[E-Stat]

Thanks for supporting Canadian industry.

As fellow North Americans, that's only right! I also get to travel to Canada with some frequency for both work and pleasure. The wife and I really want to visit the Vancouver area. Been to Quebec, Ontario, and Alberta before.

... the Ed Meitner products are among the crème de la crème of digital equipment.

Both units I've heard were excellent. Disk loading can be a bit slow, but I can handle that. As I mentioned, I choose high output decks/DACs so as to obviate the need for a line stage. The EMM units have switchable output levels. While cosmetics is not my primary concern, I especially like the "instrument quality" appearance. Obviously well made, but not gaudy or overly "gee whiz". You can easily read the blue display across the room.

With your high resolution equipment I should think you'd find the hi rez playback a treat or even a revelation.
...

Agreed. I like high resolution when it isn't in your face (like Halcro). It just wafts by...

rw

[Wits]

Heya, Auricauricle! Nice to see a fellow Corpsman in here. Though I didn't get to go to Japan or anything cool like that; my duty was all stateside.

I'm just curious since the conversation is about SACD's and CD's mostly...will a blu-ray player play an SACD? I've been thinking about the Panasonic DMB-PD35 or 55.

Thanks in advance!

[emaidel]

Thanks to all who've posted here in response to my question. As it turns out, I wasn't too far from the truth in terms of what a music server actually is. And, like some others, I don't have any use for it (at least, at the moment). I've reached what I consider the current pinnacle of audio quality, and that's the SACD. From what everyone has said, no music server is as good as the best SACD, and is at best, "CD quality."

And, I may be almost 64 years old, but getting up off my a$$ to change a CD (especially a long, classical disc which often is over 60 minutes in duration) is hardly a chore. I do find getting up to flip over an LP a pain, however...