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Not to mention expensive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sondek
And no, I'd say that the newer the generation, the shorter the attention span, and the higher the demand for convenience over quality. Vinyl is "too much work" for some people.
Turntables is maybe the only of the few source components in which better engineering translates DIRECTLY into better sound. High quality bearings and suspensions are NOT cheap at all and the performance difference between a Planar2 and a say Gyro is deffinitely obvious.
Not everyone is willing to shell big bucks for a format the majority of people perceive as dead even though in 90% of the cases high end turntables are worth every single penny.(not quite sure about stuff like the Rockport Sirius though...)
Peace!
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Perfectly stated Mr. Sondek
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A coupla' things...
...I have to agree with Pat D with vinyls' status as a "niche" market...even tho' it's my main source...simple comparison of sales numbers and availability pretty much renders it so IMO...unless you have a sizable analog collection(as I do) most folks spurn the medium....however, I whole heartedly agree with this:
"... I'd say that the newer the generation, the shorter the attention span, and the higher the demand for convenience over quality. Vinyl is "too much work" for some people...."
To me, the involvement is part of the what makes analog work for me...the ritual as it were. Just as there are those of us who enjoy applying a sharpening steel to a well balanced cooks' knife and slicing and dicing as required...it takes patience, practice, involvement and more than a "sound bite" level of concentration...or you can toss stuff into the ol' Cuisinart...not that there is anything wrong with a food processor, it has a place in my kitchen...but it also has it's limits...and then, of course, there are those who think food of prep as nuking teevee dinners or a trip to the local "scarf-and-barf"...
jimHJJ(...hmmm...I think I'm hungry...)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sondek
It is very relevant.
If one has only heard the offerings of Circuit city, there is no reference for detail or high end.
There is no comparision between what is found in a mass-market store and a high end store.
It is releveant that if someone has not listened to high end, at length (especially at home) they have no frame of reference to compare or comment.
You know, I hate to call anyone clueless, but you most certainly fit the bill. What I've listened to, or what you've listened to, does not establish the basis in fact that compnent X and component Y sound the same, or different; Yet you persist on tryng to make some quality judgement based on completely uncontrolled listening, which is distorted by your set of values you subconsciously impose on what you're listening to before the first sound is ever heard from the device. Therefore, you can NEVER get an accurate assesment this way.
-Bruce
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Have you tried Bruce
Just tell us what you have listened to and if you have made a concerted effort in a properly set up system. It sounds as if you have no experience. I am not saying that you do not but your stance is.
Tomorow I will have at my house three cd players.
Wadia 861
Sony SCD 777es
CAL cl-20
I will have these set up in my room with all the levels matched ( which I can do on My Spectral DMC-20 Series II ) We will hook all up with the same cable. I will then put the same cd in each player and put someone in the chair. I will invite you to my house any time to do tha same comparison. There will not be any sighted comparison here because as you probtally do not know there is no display on the Spectral. I am not really sure which player will sound the best but we will see. Is this controlled enough?
You never responded to my e-mail. I would love to set up a listening session with you.
give me a call.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLZapped
Yet you persist on tryng to make some quality judgement based on completely uncontrolled listening, which is distorted by your set of values you subconsciously impose on what you're listening to before the first sound is ever heard from the device. Therefore, you can NEVER get an accurate assesment this way
Absolutely. Similarly, why would anyone automatically think that an XTS5000 is one whit better than my trusty T5400? Some people are sooo judgemental. :)
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996turbo
I am having a hard time with this topic. I guess it is like a republican trying to talk with a democrat. The point of my post was not to debate the equipment. Everyone has a perception of what they think about wire or power or tweaks. I believe everyone has their right to believe what they want. Mtyr just seems to go on ad nosium about there being no difference in audio gear. If he believes that thats fine but my god every post that some one asks about it he pops up and says it does not matter.I have heard a difference and so has every person who has been to my house. That is all the proof I need. My wife has no psychological tie to any gear and she can hear a difference. These are her rights. Mtyr just sounds like a broken record.
What I meant by resolving power may not be something you are familiar with. It is detail and resolution where you can hear minute changes in your system.
My System
Sony SCD-777es
Spectral DMC-20 SeriesII
Plinius SA-250 MarkIV
B&W N803
PS Audio P300 for front end
PS Audio High Current UO for amp
Wire is Audioquest andVirtual Dynamics it is all plugged in to 2 20 AMP dedicated linesone for the front and the other for the amp.
Well, you are about to hear from me. It is an open forum, after all.
What you mean by resolving power is that you have ZERO concept of it as you have ZERO concept of all of the audio BS, how human perception works or doesn't work, what you imagine to be real or just tricks of the brain.
It would be best to know a bit before you call others names.
By the way, what relevance does my boombox have to what you are imagining?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996turbo
Like I have said My wife has heard the changes in my system for the better or for the worse. I understand what you are saying about the DBT but coming from someone who does not care about the gear (my wife) when she hears a difference it negates the need for it.
Oh, please. Show us her certification of immunity from bening duped into imagining things. Please do that for all of us.
Before you bury yourself as you have no knowledge of what you are discussing, best to just disengage in silence.
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Ther is a very audible difference between a $200 sony and a $700 rega, and again from a $1200 cd player and so on. The diffrences are quite pronounced up to at least the $4,000 price point.
There is? And how do you know this? Maybe you are just imagining it? You have no idea.
All it takes is a reasonable system (synergy) comprised of decent separates that you would find outside the realm of circuit city.
To do what? Synergy? Really? Isn't that just another audio voodoo, urban legend? You wouldn't have some evidence for this nonsense would you?
Modifications can and do wark...like a champ.
Work? How?I guess you are smarter than the engineers who designed the components?
Some Tweaks work like a champ-tonality changes.
Really? How did you test this? Or did you? Imagined it maybe?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrycraft
Ther is a very audible difference between a $200 sony and a $700 rega, and again from a $1200 cd player and so on. The diffrences are quite pronounced up to at least the $4,000 price point.
There is? And how do you know this? Maybe you are just imagining it? You have no idea.
No I am not moron. You are a retarded A$$hole. Maybe you are just imaging that you are not.
All it takes is a reasonable system (synergy) comprised of decent separates that you would find outside the realm of circuit city.
To do what? Synergy? Really? Isn't that just another audio voodoo, urban legend? You wouldn't have some evidence for this nonsense would you?
Yes, This thread is proof you are an A$$hole
Modifications can and do wark...like a champ.
Work? How?I guess you are smarter than the engineers who designed the components?
Don't have to be smarter than an engineer, just smarter than you, A$$hole
Some Tweaks work like a champ-tonality changes.
Really? How did you test this? Or did you? Imagined it maybe?
No, I imagine you have something better than JBL and denon, or normal hearing ability. but it isn't true. You are just a 5,000+ posting A$$hole
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Last night
I had a friend over and we compared his new Wadia 861 to my Sont SCD-777es. We both thought the sony would sound better in SACD but the Wadia sounded better in redbook. There was a profound difference in the two. I do not need someone talking about psychological bull**** to tell me there was no difference in the two. Any idiot could immedietly tell the difference. I guess that precludes you Mtyrcraft.
Why do not you tell us when the last comparison of gear was and what pieces you compared were.
Do you even know what a Wadia is?
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Well Wadia know? "better" is a relative term.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996turbo
I had a friend over and we compared his new Wadia 861 to my Sont SCD-777es. We both thought the sony would sound better in SACD but the Wadia sounded better in redbook. There was a profound difference in the two. I do not need someone talking about psychological bull**** to tell me there was no difference in the two. Any idiot could immedietly tell the difference. I guess that precludes you Mtyrcraft.
Why do not you tell us when the last comparison of gear was and what pieces you compared were.
Do you even know what a Wadia is?
Way back "in the day" when big band music was popular, they would broadcast live events on AM, since FM was way off in the horizon yet. Granted, AM radio int hose days was better than it is today, but not "better" enough to simulate a live sound.
Wouldn't you agree?
Even with those grand behemoth consoles that were popular back then, their response was sorely limited in comparison to reality.
Wouldn't you agree?
In any case, one manufacturer had the cojones to set up a "blind" test between a live band behind a curtian and a RECORDING of that SAME band playing the SAME arrangement of the SAME song being played (at 78 rpm) through a console radio, also behind the curtian.
When asked which they preferred, a great majority "preferred" the sound of the recording to the sound of the live band.
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I understand where you are coming from
I heard more of the music with the wadia and felt the emotion more. there was a real and palpable difference for the better in the Wadia.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
Absolutely. Similarly, why would anyone automatically think that an XTS5000 is one whit better than my trusty T5400? Some people are sooo judgemental. :)
rw
Certainly no kettle calling the pot black here. . . . .
-Bruce
;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLZapped
Certainly no kettle calling the pot black here. . . . .
-Bruce
;)
Don't you love the irony? :)
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996turbo
All of these components had their own individual sonic signature. .
Yep, that is your perception but far from reality as you have zero idea what reality is or is not. That was apparent with your first words.
Oh, as to AA, be happy there. Why are you here? They will tell you what you want to hear, not what reality is, even from those so called experts. But how would you know if they are? Sheer speculation on your part.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sondek
No, I imagine you have something better than JBL and denon, or normal hearing ability. but it isn't true. You are just a 5,000+ posting A$$hole
How kind of you to call me names instead of posting fact. But then you don't have any facts, just speculations, imaginations, urban legends, voodoo, hype, silly nonsense. Be happy, enjoy the emptyness up there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996turbo
I had a friend over and we compared his new Wadia 861 to my Sont SCD-777es. We both thought the sony would sound better in SACD but the Wadia sounded better in redbook. There was a profound difference in the two. I do not need someone talking about psychological bull**** to tell me there was no difference in the two. Any idiot could immedietly tell the difference. I guess that precludes you Mtyrcraft.
Why do not you tell us when the last comparison of gear was and what pieces you compared were.
Do you even know what a Wadia is?
Ah, when you have no facts in hand, you make things up? As to who is the idiot, that is obvious. When you grasp some tiny bit of the science of audio, you may have a chance to discuss the issues. As is, you are in neverland of audio. Enjoy it. Reality sucks.
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What exactly am I making up?
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Mtyrcraft,
What I understand about you is that you are a ditchdigger with a boombox. Please tell me where in your grand existance have you gotten the personal experience to be the all knowing god of audio. You talk the psychological babble and tell others they are reading the wrong books and that you know it all about the technology behind these products. Am I to understand that you not only have your Doctorate in psychology but are also an electrical engineer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
Don't you love the irony? :)
rw
Only if the iron is black too.....
:D
-Bruce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996turbo
Mtyrcraft,
What I understand about you is that you are a ditchdigger with a boombox. Please tell me where in your grand existance have you gotten the personal experience to be the all knowing god of audio. You talk the psychological babble and tell others they are reading the wrong books and that you know it all about the technology behind these products. Am I to understand that you not only have your Doctorate in psychology but are also an electrical engineer.
I did not realize that mtrycrafts claimed to be the "all knowing god of audio". However, he does insist someone try to be logical. That's all he does. He provides a myriad of references to support his point(s) of view, unlike most people. Is this do diffifult(look at things logically and research) to do? What in the hell instigated this stupid thread in the first place??? I believe this thread should be deleted---the original poster suspended from his account for specific malicous intent of a person. Of course, no moderator to be found around these here parts....
-Chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996turbo
Mtyrcraft,
What I understand about you is that you are a ditchdigger with a boombox. Please tell me where in your grand existance have you gotten the personal experience to be the all knowing god of audio. You talk the psychological babble and tell others they are reading the wrong books and that you know it all about the technology behind these products. Am I to understand that you not only have your Doctorate in psychology but are also an electrical engineer.
What matters, is that you have no evidence for any of your claims, any of it.
Best if you expand your audio knowledge a bit more so you don't look so foolish posting instead of asking questions, researching audio, and learing before you enter into a debate or make unfounded claims.
The only relevance is what you can demonstrate with evidence, not by unreliable, unsupportable claims.
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:o))
You're so Vain, I bet you think this post is about you, don't you?
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so lets get this straight
you are on an audioweb board talking about equipment.
You do not believe there is any difference in Amps, Cd players or cable.
You think I need to do more research on audio?
How is it that?
http://www.stereophile.com/digitalso...814/index.html
This is an interesting example of what we are talking about here. Just because we can not measure something with current test equipment dos not mean a difference does not exist.
We thought the world was flat and the earth was at the center of the universe at one time.
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