My new DAC

[blackraven]

Sorry for not posting sooner. I have been very busy with work and then the trip to Axpona. My computer also died, the GPU crapped out on my laptop and can't be replaced. I am going to pick up a new one thursday. In addition, I had my BAT preamp recapped so it was out of action for several days as all 12 output caps in the 6 packs were replaced.

So here's my review of the Marantz. It was not a good match for my system which was unfortunate because the build quality was superb. The sound was another issue. It was way too forward and in your face. Bass was too pronounced. I had to turn off my sub and even then it still sounded like the sub was on. The midrange was recessed and the lower treble was in your face. Female vocals were too forward. The sound was very uneven. I did like the 2 filters. Filter one gave a more airy sound and filter 2 was more focused and analog sounding. The only other thing I liked about the Marantz was the texture of piano, guitars and vocals. They were excellent. The decay of the piano just went on forever especially with filter 1.

I tried the Marantz with my Van Alstine preamp first since the BAT was getting worked on. I figured things would improve with the BAT but it only made things worse as the BAT has great dynamics and powerful bass. So I returned it to Music Direct and it is going to cost me about $130.

I have narrowed my choices for a DAC to the Cary Audio 200ts ( I can get a good deal on this new DAC which has a switch on the fly SS and Tube output stage), Auralic Vega as it sounded great at Axpona and the PS Audio Direct Stream which I would buy used.

[Mr Peabody]

Blackraven, I liked the DSD DAC but trust me when I say it's not a good match for you. It's pretty much opposite of everything you want, except for detail. The DSD is not overly analytical to where it's not enjoyable but I think it would be more than you would enjoy.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Sorry for not posting sooner. I have been very busy with work and then the trip to Axpona. My computer also died, the GPU crapped out on my laptop and can't be replaced. I am going to pick up a new one thursday. In addition, I had my BAT preamp recapped so it was out of action for several days as all 12 output caps in the 6 packs were replaced.

So here's my review of the Marantz. It was not a good match for my system which was unfortunate because the build quality was superb. The sound was another issue. It was way too forward and in your face. Bass was too pronounced. I had to turn off my sub and even then it still sounded like the sub was on. The midrange was recessed and the lower treble was in your face. Female vocals were too forward. The sound was very uneven. I did like the 2 filters. Filter one gave a more airy sound and filter 2 was more focused and analog sounding. The only other thing I liked about the Marantz was the texture of piano, guitars and vocals. They were excellent. The decay of the piano just went on forever especially with filter 1.

I tried the Marantz with my Van Alstine preamp first since the BAT was getting worked on. I figured things would improve with the BAT but it only made things worse as the BAT has great dynamics and powerful bass. So I returned it to Music Direct and it is going to cost me about $130.

I have narrowed my choices for a DAC to the Cary Audio 200ts ( I can get a good deal on this new DAC which has a switch on the fly SS and Tube output stage), Auralic Vega as it sounded great at Axpona and the PS Audio Direct Stream which I would buy used.

Sorry the Marantz didn't work out for you. I'll be routing for the Cary, as it is on my short list, if I ever decided to replace my Bryston. I was a little confused when you said you were returning the Marantz to Music Direct and it would cost $130. Is that shipping and handling?

[blackraven]

Jack, the return shipping with insurance was $89. I will also have to reimburse Music Direct for the free shipping to me.

Mr.P, what DSD DAC are you talking about?

[Jack in Wilmington]

Jack, the return shipping with insurance was $89. I will also have to reimburse Music Direct for the free shipping to me.

Mr.P, what DSD DAC are you talking about?

Is that the way other online companies work that have 30 day in home trials?

[Mr Peabody]

Sorry, PS Audio Direct Stream. I'm used to calling it the DSD (Direct Stream DAC) but DSD has a more broad meaning now, I need to keep that in mind, LOL

[frenchmon]

Sorry the Marantz didnt work out for you. The Cary DAC sounded better with the SS option rather than the Tube option.

Peabody.....I thought the DSD DAC was rather nice! It wasn't as aggressive as the Lampizator...its a tad laid back. It might be a great DAC if Raven wants all his music to do DSD as it doesnt do PCM.

And how has DSD become to mean something else other than Direct Stream Digital?

[frenchmon]

Raven...this may be of use to you if you're wondering about a few DAC's.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...qQTNfVUE#gid=0

[Jack in Wilmington]

Raven...this may be of use to you if you're wondering about a few DAC's.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...qQTNfVUE#gid=0

Nice spreadsheet Frenchmon. I have to print it out and make sure I take it with me when I go DAC auditioning.

[Mr Peabody]

I get a feel for what people like, just as on that day I predicted you'd like the Lampizator better and Dave would prefer the PS Audio, and, it worked out that way.

The Direct Stream wasn't "laid back", it was very quick and dynamic, it just wasn't as forward or large of a sound stage as the Lampi. I liked the PS Audio as well, I think if Blackraven didn't like the 11s, the PS Audio is moving in the wrong direction to where he wants to be.

With all that, I have yet to see any one not like the Bricasti which is one of the quickest, hardest hitting DAC's I've heard, it just happens to do it with a tremendous pace and timing, musicality..

[Jack in Wilmington]

I get a feel for what people like, just as on that day I predicted you'd like the Lampizator better and Dave would prefer the PS Audio, and, it worked out that way.

The Direct Stream wasn't "laid back", it was very quick and dynamic, it just wasn't as forward or large of a sound stage as the Lampi. I liked the PS Audio as well, I think if Blackraven didn't like the 11s, the PS Audio is moving in the wrong direction to where he wants to be.

With all that, I have yet to see any one not like the Bricasti which is one of the quickest, hardest hitting DAC's I've heard, it just happens to do it with a tremendous pace and timing, musicality..

And price tag.

[blackraven]

Mr. P, I found that the Marantz was too fast. I like a little slower pace. My BAT preamp and Pass amp are fast and hit hard. In fact, since I recapped the BAT the music is much more dynamic and detailed. It sounds like a different preamp. Bass is deeper and faster ( I had to turn down the sub a bit). The music is fuller with much more body and texture. Low level listening is better. Treble is more detailed with a bit more air. The preamp is more musical. I would say the before the recap that I was getting about 85% of the sound that I am getting now.

My point of all this is that the Marantz was too dynamic and the sound was very uneven, so I want a DAC that is musical and detailed with some warmth to the sound. I want a huge sound stage and a midrange that has both transparency and depth like the Bricasti. Speed is not an issue with my system, especially with my Magnepans.

[Mr Peabody]

That's great the caps made that much improvement for the BAT.

Come on jack, if you are going to play, you have to pay, LOL

[Jack in Wilmington]

That's great the caps made that much improvement for the BAT.

Come on jack, if you are going to play, you have to pay, LOL

There's pay and there is PAY. I'm on Social Security so it takes a little longer to pay to play.

[blackraven]

The Bricasti cost's $9,000 which is a little much considering it weighs only 9 pounds. The Marantz weighed in at about 25lbs and the Cary that I am looking at weighs 28lbs. Maybe less is more but not when it comes to the cost of parts and labor. But the Bricasti sounds awesome and magical. The Bricasti room at Axpona used $30K Tidal speakers. It was the best sounding system that I have ever heard, even better than the $130K Wilson Audio and Ayre system that I heard last year. Some systems can do things better than the Bricasti-Tidal room but the overall sound and listen-ability was captivating. I don't know of any one that did not love that room.

Mr. P, the new caps in the BAT takes the premamp to another level. I bet that it sounds like it was supposed to when it was brand new and was considered one of the worlds best preamps by Stereophile back in 2003-2004. I truly cannot believe the sound I was missing. Even my son is amazed and can't stop listening to it. And what is amazing is that the caps are not fully broken in yet. I only have about 30 or so hours on them and it takes about 100hrs to reach their full potential.

[frenchmon]

I get a feel for what people like, just as on that day I predicted you'd like the Lampizator better and Dave would prefer the PS Audio, and, it worked out that way.

The Direct Stream wasn't "laid back", it was very quick and dynamic, it just wasn't as forward or large of a sound stage as the Lampi. I liked the PS Audio as well, I think if Blackraven didn't like the 11s, the PS Audio is moving in the wrong direction to where he wants to be.

With all that, I have yet to see any one not like the Bricasti which is one of the quickest, hardest hitting DAC's I've heard, it just happens to do it with a tremendous pace and timing, musicality..

Peabody thats what I said. It was laid back....in comparison to the Lampizator I might add. Both DAC's where dynamic...and I like them both, lampi more.

I dont know about the PS Audio not being a match.....you never know most times how a component will work out until you put it in....but we do have our hunches.

Bricasti is nice....but for $9k it better be. the Lampizator Level 7 and PSU is also dynamic and hard hitting, so was the PS DSD....I thought it hit just as hard and was just as dynamic give or take a few....but then again....I didn't have as long a listening session as you.

[frenchmon]

Mr. P, I found that the Marantz was too fast. I like a little slower pace. My BAT preamp and Pass amp are fast and hit hard. In fact, since I recapped the BAT the music is much more dynamic and detailed. It sounds like a different preamp. Bass is deeper and faster ( I had to turn down the sub a bit). The music is fuller with much more body and texture. Low level listening is better. Treble is more detailed with a bit more air. The preamp is more musical. I would say the before the recap that I was getting about 85% of the sound that I am getting now.

My point of all this is that the Marantz was too dynamic and the sound was very uneven, so I want a DAC that is musical and detailed with some warmth to the sound. I want a huge sound stage and a midrange that has both transparency and depth like the Bricasti. Speed is not an issue with my system, especially with my Magnepans.

Raven....you ever thought about the Resonesse Labs Invicta or Mirus? I hear they are great! Also the AMR DP 777 SE is suppose to be in the class of the Lampi Big 7 . I hear they are one of the best out. Abbingdon Music Research - Products - Digital Processor-777

[frenchmon]

Mr. P, I found that the Marantz was too fast. I like a little slower pace. My BAT preamp and Pass amp are fast and hit hard. In fact, since I recapped the BAT the music is much more dynamic and detailed. It sounds like a different preamp. Bass is deeper and faster ( I had to turn down the sub a bit). The music is fuller with much more body and texture. Low level listening is better. Treble is more detailed with a bit more air. The preamp is more musical. I would say the before the recap that I was getting about 85% of the sound that I am getting now.

My point of all this is that the Marantz was too dynamic and the sound was very uneven, so I want a DAC that is musical and detailed with some warmth to the sound. I want a huge sound stage and a midrange that has both transparency and depth like the Bricasti. Speed is not an issue with my system, especially with my Magnepans.

Ravin....did you go with a different brand of caps than the originals? I assume you did? What did you have before and what did you change too? I've noticed some time when one goes away from the same named brand caps, the specific sound signature of the manufacturer goes away as well...is this not the case with your BAT?

[frenchmon]

Jack....thanks for the compliment on the DAC list.

The Lampizator Level 7 is $10k

The Bricasti is $9k

The Cary 600SE DAC is $8k

All "to rich for my blood". (Patrica Barber on the "Cafe Blue" album)

[blackraven]

Frenchmon, I used the newer version ( they have a lower failure rate than the older caps) of the Jensen Paper-Oil-Aluminum caps that were made specifically for the BAT. These caps were used in the 6 Packs (2 six packs per channel for a total of 12 caps) that made their preamps an SE version that accounts for the great dynamics and bass. BAT sells them for $75 per cap. I bought them direct from Jensen in Denmark for $20 per cap. I new they were going bad because when I changed inputs or turned off the BAT, I would get a loud electronic pop through the speakers. I spoke with Victor Khomenko the designer of the BAT VK preamps and he stated all 12 of the out put caps needed to be changed. He was right.

The difference in sound is due to the fact that the old caps were not discharging well. So now I am getting their full voltage which is 1 Farad and 400V per cap.

Here is a picture of the inside of the BAT. You can see the yellow-orange six packs at the rear of the unit on each side. The front has 4 separate caps of the same values which I am going to replace.


Balanced Audio Technology VK-51SE line preamplifier | Stereophile.com

[Jack in Wilmington]

Jack....thanks for the compliment on the DAC list.

The Lampizator Level 7 is $10k

The Bricasti is $9k

The Cary 600SE DAC is $8k

All "to rich for my blood". (Patrica Barber on the "Cafe Blue" album)

That's a great tool to have when you're looking for a new DAC. If you're looking for a particular feature like DSD64, you need to look no further than that list. I wish they made them for other gear.

[frenchmon]

Frenchmon, I used the newer version ( they have a lower failure rate than the older caps) of the Jensen Paper-Oil-Aluminum caps that were made specifically for the BAT. These caps were used in the 6 Packs (2 six packs per channel for a total of 12 caps) that made their preamps an SE version that accounts for the great dynamics and bass. BAT sells them for $75 per cap. I bought them direct from Jensen in Denmark for $20 per cap. I new they were going bad because when I changed inputs or turned off the BAT, I would get a loud electronic pop through the speakers. I spoke with Victor Khomenko the designer of the BAT VK preamps and he stated all 12 of the out put caps needed to be changed. He was right.

The difference in sound is due to the fact that the old caps were not discharging well. So now I am getting their full voltage which is 1 Farad and 400V per cap.

Here is a picture of the inside of the BAT. You can see the yellow-orange six packs at the rear of the unit on each side. The front has 4 separate caps of the same values which I am going to replace.


Balanced Audio Technology VK-51SE line preamplifier | Stereophile.com

Nice.....BAT has a hell of a mark up!

[frenchmon]

That's a great tool to have when you're looking for a new DAC. If you're looking for a particular feature like DSD64, you need to look no further than that list. I wish they made them for other gear.

Yeah its a nice list. Some guy over at computer audiophile put that together.

[blackraven]

Well I just pulled the trigger on the Cary Audio 200ts DAC. I will post a review next weekend after it arrives.

[Mr Peabody]

Nice, I'll be waiting for your report.