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  1. #1
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    Talking just received the Denon 2200

    I finally got my Denon 2200 after returning the Pioneer universal player. I thought the Pioneer was a fine DVD Player but I didn't see or hear much of a difference between it and my old Sony so I upgraded. I have to tell you that right out of the box the Denon looked spectacular when playing movies. My Sony has the Chroma Bug problem so I compared them both side by side playing Monsters Inc and the Denon was the clear winner (I used this movie because I knew where the Sony had problems). I haven't made any adjustments to the Denon's picture yet but the progressive scan Sony had been set up with Avia's Disk and it still didn't compare. (In all fairness...I paid 300.00 for the Sony 2 years ago and $500.00 for the Denon). The Denon also is much heavier duty than the Pioneer as it should be for the price. I thought that I was going to push the back of the pioneer in when I was making my connections.
    I'm a little confused with the Denon's audio set up. The manual says that it recommends shutting off the digital output and using the analog connections for all multichannel listening for a clearer sound. Is this reffering to SACD and DVD-A only, or for movies also? I have a 6.1 setup so I assume I need to use my digital connection for certain movies.
    Speaking of the SACD and DVD-As...they sound very impressive on this player. I felt that the music was a bit "thin" sounding on the Pioneer (especially vocals), but the Denon has a very full and natural sound. I don't have an impressive setup but I could definately tell the difference. Anyway, I'll stop babbling. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    which Pioneer model did you have?
    HT
    Pioneer Elite SC lx502
    Pioneer Elite N50
    Pioneer Cassette CTM66R
    Pioneer Elite BDP 85FD

    Vizio P series 2160p
    Panamax 5300 EX

  3. #3
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    pioneer model

    It was the cheap one I think it was the 563sa or something like that. It retailed for about $180.00.

  4. #4
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    Check out tarheel review of the 563a

  5. #5
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    tarheel's review

    Quote Originally Posted by recoveryone
    Check out tarheel review of the 563a
    I really wish I felt the same way! It would have saved me some money. I thought the 563 was a fine DVD Player but I was willing, after my comparisons, to spend more for more of a dramatic improvement over what I had. I'm extremely glad I did!

  6. #6
    Forum Regular jeskibuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmmmm
    I'm a little confused with the Denon's audio set up.
    Welcome to the club. It took me a while to figure out my DVD-1600. Denon's manuals aren't too helpful and their on-screen displays leave much to be desired.

    Quote Originally Posted by hmmmm
    The manual says that it recommends shutting off the digital output and using the analog connections for all multichannel listening for a clearer sound. Is this reffering to SACD and DVD-A only, or for movies also? I have a 6.1 setup so I assume I need to use my digital connection for certain movies.
    You might want to experiment a little to see which sounds better...it depends on the DACs in your receiver/processor and the Denon's. If you can somehow match the gain and balance of the analog to what you get out of the decoded digital, you might be able to discern a difference by switching back and forth, but it might take a LOT of effort!

    For 6.1 movies...yes...you'd probably want to use the digital connection to get the back center channel signal. You have no choice but to go with the analog connections to get the most out of DVD-A and SACD discs.

    Congrats on your new toy! Although I do own a Pioneer CD recorder, I've always been wary of Pioneer's build quality. My unit has a much clunkier feel to it (drawer action, push-buttons, etc.) than most of my other equipment. So far, it's served me well although it doesn't get a LOT of use. Hopefully the Denon will be good to you over time!
    Click here to see my system.

  7. #7
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    compare the 2 players...

    Quote Originally Posted by hmmmm
    I really wish I felt the same way! It would have saved me some money. I thought the 563 was a fine DVD Player but I was willing, after my comparisons, to spend more for more of a dramatic improvement over what I had. I'm extremely glad I did!

    I haven't heard the 2200 so i can't directly compare. However, Crutchfield does compare the two. See for yourself,
    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mckSZlR...=22&IMAGE4.y=4

    I'm certainly not saying the Denon doesn't sound better in your room/system, but the numbers don't lie (if Crutchfield is accurate).

    I'm not trying to argue your opinion... just sharing information. Cheers.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    numbers don't lie

    I appreciate the link to Crutchfield. I agree that looking at the numbers is a good thing and that's why I originally was excited to get the Pioneer. A lot of times specs on speakers match up but they still sound different.
    When I had them set up all at the same time using 2 of the exact same cds and same connections, the Denon just sounded better and the picture performance was significantly better on my 47" HDTV. I haven't noticed any layer changes like on the Sony when watching movies (this always bugged my wife). I'm not sure if the Pioneer had any pauses.
    I'm pretty tight with my money and I definately wouldn't have spent the extra money if I REALLY didn't think it was worth it.

  9. #9
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmmmm
    I appreciate the link to Crutchfield. I agree that looking at the numbers is a good thing and that's why I originally was excited to get the Pioneer. A lot of times specs on speakers match up but they still sound different.
    When I had them set up all at the same time using 2 of the exact same cds and same connections, the Denon just sounded better and the picture performance was significantly better on my 47" HDTV. I haven't noticed any layer changes like on the Sony when watching movies (this always bugged my wife). I'm not sure if the Pioneer had any pauses.
    I'm pretty tight with my money and I definately wouldn't have spent the extra money if I REALLY didn't think it was worth it.
    A benefit we haven't discussed is resale value. I just sold my Denon DVD-1000 for $90 less than I paid 3 years ago. I doubt the Pioneer will hold up that well.
    I'm curious about your setup, what type of speakers, receiver or pre/pro are you using? Did you set the speaker levels for each player with a spl meter or by ear when you testing them side-by-side? thanks...

  10. #10
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    setup

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel_
    A benefit we haven't discussed is resale value. I just sold my Denon DVD-1000 for $90 less than I paid 3 years ago. I doubt the Pioneer will hold up that well.
    I'm curious about your setup, what type of speakers, receiver or pre/pro are you using? Did you set the speaker levels for each player with a spl meter or by ear when you testing them side-by-side? thanks...
    Well, my setup isn't impressive but I'm pretty happy with it. I'm hoping to upgrade my front 3 speakers within the next year. I think they are great for Home theater but not as good as I'd like for music.
    I did use the Avia Disk and SPL Meter when setting this up. My room is 14 x 23 with 8 foot ceilings (It's my basement and all under ground). I think this helps with noise reduction The room only has one port hole (I mean one opening that can't be closed) And, I have used all acoustical insulation etc...to help with sound control. I have a Panasonic 47" HDTV on one end with my lazyboy couch about 2/3 of the way back from the front wall. My front 3 speakers are CSW's Newton MC300's and my surrounds are their multipole surrounds (not sure what model). I have a Hsu VTF-2 sub (LOVE IT). I have a Panasonic 6.1 SAH-200 receiver (I think that's the model but I'm at work) It's their 130w x 6 (2003 model). <---see, I'm cheap, but I did like the sound and price of this model. Also, the Denon 2200 along with some other crap I never use

  11. #11
    ride a jet ski Tarheel_'s Avatar
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    sounds like an excellent setup to me...a basement HT is fantastic. I hear you on the Panasonic, i started in HT with a Technics, which i loved, but ran out of connections and then got a great deal on a Denon 2801 (sold it too). Anyway, I also had a speaker setup that was top-notch for HT, but nothing else (Polk RT2000p powered towers, CS400 center and RT15i rears).
    When you decide to upgrade the speakers give Revel a shot. They have great deals on used speakers on audiogon.com and they are just incredible for the price. I know, everyone says that, but after auditioning some well-known speakers...the Revel F30 and M20 was head-and-shoulders above. Now, i listen to much more 2 channel and dare i say hi-req multichannel. Heck, i'm outta here and going home to listen. Peace.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    Revel

    I'll have to check them out. I was just looking at the Ascend Acoustic site because it seems like a lot of people like them. They sound too good to be true at that price. Thanks! Oh, by the way, I have 4 Technics Receivers I used to sell them when I was just out of school.

  13. #13
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    Ascend speakers

    Quote Originally Posted by hmmmm
    I'll have to check them out. I was just looking at the Ascend Acoustic site because it seems like a lot of people like them. They sound too good to be true at that price.
    Ummmm, while they may sound too good to be true, the proof is in the pudding! I have an Ascend front end (upgrade from Klipsches) and am consistently amazed at how good these speakers sound with Redbook Cds and DVDs. Order 'em and return them if you don't like them! Not too many do!

    Ajay

  14. #14
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    re: just received the Denon 2200

    Quote Originally Posted by hmmmm
    I finally got my Denon 2200 after returning the Pioneer universal player. I thought the Pioneer was a fine DVD Player but I didn't see or hear much of a difference between it and my old Sony so I upgraded. I have to tell you that right out of the box the Denon looked spectacular when playing movies. My Sony has the Chroma Bug problem so I compared them both side by side playing Monsters Inc and the Denon was the clear winner (I used this movie because I knew where the Sony had problems).
    Are you certain about there being no chroma bug? HometheaterHifi.com (the original group finding the chroma bug) says in part:

    "Like the 2900 some of the drawbacks of the 2200 stem from its Mitsubishi MPEG decoder. While tweaked better than Pioneer managed to do, it still suffers from a few quirks. The most obvious is the chroma upsampling error (CUE) with 3-2 alternating flag material. You’ll find this mainly in Buena Vista titles, especially their animation. The result is a stripping and flickering in solid colors."

    This certainly sounds like it has the chroma bug to me! I am dissapointed as I was serioulsy considering this player as it tests fairly well otherwise!

    Richard

  15. #15
    Forum Regular hmmmm's Avatar
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    chroma bug

    Quote Originally Posted by rstaples
    Are you certain about there being no chroma bug? HometheaterHifi.com (the original group finding the chroma bug) says in part:

    "Like the 2900 some of the drawbacks of the 2200 stem from its Mitsubishi MPEG decoder. While tweaked better than Pioneer managed to do, it still suffers from a few quirks. The most obvious is the chroma upsampling error (CUE) with 3-2 alternating flag material. You’ll find this mainly in Buena Vista titles, especially their animation. The result is a stripping and flickering in solid colors."

    This certainly sounds like it has the chroma bug to me! I am dissapointed as I was serioulsy considering this player as it tests fairly well otherwise!

    Richard
    Well, I have to say that I watch probably 2 movies a week on this player and have only seen a possible problem once. When I compared it to my other DVD players it outshined them by far. I can't remember the movie but I did see a problem for a very breif period. I was disappointed but I would still highly recommend this player. My Sony and Panasonic players don't compare.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarheel_
    I haven't heard the 2200 so i can't directly compare. However, Crutchfield does compare the two. See for yourself,
    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mckSZlR...=22&IMAGE4.y=4

    I'm certainly not saying the Denon doesn't sound better in your room/system, but the numbers don't lie (if Crutchfield is accurate).

    I'm not trying to argue your opinion... just sharing information. Cheers.
    Well, numbers don't lie but the numbers are not very complete either. For an actual review of the two players go to:

    Pioneer 563a: http://tinyurl.com/3bcn8

    Denon 2200: http://tinyurl.com/328qz

    On a scale of 100 the Denon 2200 scored 83 and the Pioneer scored only 67

    On the Pioneer: "The audio section is what I expected out of a player in this range. While most will probably be satisfied, it doesn’t come near the performance and detail of higher end offerings. The bass management is quite limited with a fixed 100 Hz crossover which leaves a bit to be desired. While it is hard to compare this player to some of the others in this shootout, given its price point, it is a decent option for those not looking to break the bank."

    The test at Crutchfield was really no test at all. Just a bit of measurement comparisons.
    If you search carefully, you will probably find other opinions and test information on these two players.

    Richard

  17. #17
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    Just got the 2200 myself...

    After my 2nd cheapy DVD player went out recently, I decided to go and get a new DVD with better build quality. Since a couple of months ago I went out and bought the Denon 3803 receiver and Energy Encore Speaker package, I thought I would check out the Denon DVD players as well. After reading about the different models on this site and taking a look at them in person at the local electronics store, I decided on the 2200. I am impressed with the sturdiness at about 10 lbs thought it is not as heavy as the 2900. After reading the mostly positive reviews on this product on this site, I am anxious to get it hooked up.

    My only question for forum members who have this product, is in terms of reliability. Has anyone had major problems with it? Since it only has a 1 year warranty from Denon, I was wondering if it was worth dropping an additional $100 for a 3 year warranty from the store. It's only a repair warranty, no replace.

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