Cambridge 840c Initial Impressions

[Feanor]

Thanks Feanor. It's not what I thought. They do sell a burn in or tuning disc that is supposed to make your gear sound better after playing it. That's what I thought SID was. I'd be willing to try it but the EAD transport is similar to the Pioneer E-stat described. Are you going to sell your 750p? Is shipping crazy many from Canada?

My 750p? I'm drawing a blank: what are you referring to?

Shipping is not much more expensive for comparable distances from Canada than inside the US, however depending on the selling prince, you will get dinged for brokerage and possibly duty and taxes.

[Mr Peabody]

It wasn't you that was using the Adcom in passive mode?

[blackraven]

Hey Kiwi, my 840c has sorbithane feet on the bottom not plastic. And about the power cord, I am so not convinced that it makes a difference in sound. I have a Musichall CDP and it supposedly sounds better with an upgraded power cord. Well the company I bought it from supplied a high quality upgraded audioquest power cord along with the stock cord. There is no discernable difference in sound. I feel that companies who claim that high end power cords make a difference are pulling the wool over your eyes.

And even if CA is cutting corners with the power cord and feet, what are they saving-$10-50's at most. The power cord that comes with the 840c is your standard computer power cord.

[Feanor]

It wasn't you that was using the Adcom in passive mode?

But I sold that sometime ago. I'm using a Sonic Frontiers LINE 1 nowadays.

(Some day I tell the sad story of the sale of the Adcom, on Audiogon, to a fellow in the U.S. I'll always feel bad about that.)

[Mr Peabody]

Ah, I remember you have the SF, I missed when you sold the 750. I probably wouldn't have been interested then though. What has me interested is my recent purchase of the 5500, I'd like to put it with the 750 in passive mode to see how it does. I've been prejudice against the 750 since I heard it verses the 450 in the store and didn't hear much difference. But with all the reviews and buzz I'm second guessing that experience and wondering if something wasn't right.

[Mr Peabody]

It may depend on your power company, neighborhood, house and gear as to whether power cords help. There are a lot of variables. Me personally, I have had good experience with upgrading power cords. I brought home a Transparent to try and was so impressed I went back and bought one for every component that allowed the upgrade. My phono stage and CD player had the most dramatic improvement. Also, I'm not sure why but my LINN amp also improved by a large margin with an upgrade, I bought a used MIT Z cable for it.

[jrhymeammo]

Hey Mr. P.

PM me your addy. I will send you my SID, if you are interested. You can try it out for a 2-3 weeks.

JRA

[kiwi_1282001]

Hey Kiwi, my 840c has sorbithane feet on the bottom not plastic. And about the power cord, I am so not convinced that it makes a difference in sound. I have a Musichall CDP and it supposedly sounds better with an upgraded power cord. Well the company I bought it from supplied a high quality upgraded audioquest power cord along with the stock cord. There is no discernable difference in sound. I feel that companies who claim that high end power cords make a difference are pulling the wool over your eyes.

And even if CA is cutting corners with the power cord and feet, what are they saving-$10-50's at most. The power cord that comes with the 840c is your standard computer power cord.

Greetings Blackraven. Thanks for the reply.

Re footers - the marketing blurb says that the 840C has "specially designed vibration absorbing feet". This is a stretch. If you care to pull the 840C apart you will find the screwmount is damped down the inside of the foot. The cheaper Azur players have a hard mount. Cambridge use a solid outer polymer which in their view makes the unit more stable. The feet most definately are not sorbothane, but an undisclosed compound. The footers are a widely acknowledged weakness of the 840C. When checking with Cambridge Audio they advised me that an isolation platform is a good investment if looking for an upgrade.

Re power cords - i understand that some people have trouble with the concept of accepting that a 2m mains lead can make an audible improvement. I initially was one of the people. But one fine day i tried it for myself and at the end of a 1/2 day of swopping between various power cables (including the stock one provided) i concluded that the stock cable was complete rubbish. I don't know about audioquest but my Nordost power cable makes a fantastic improvement to the 840C's sound. How it does this - i have no idea! If you are happy with the stock power cord - great.

IMHO and experience an isolation upgrade and a power lead upgrade and making use of the balanced (XLR) connection - in combination - takes the 840C into another league - challenging rivals of more than twice the price. I am just soo happy with this product. The standard product sound great - but there is plenty of scope [if you have inclination and maybe the Faith] to make it sound even better.....

[blackraven]

[QUOTE=kiwi_1282001]Greetings Blackraven. Thanks for the reply.

Re footers - the marketing blurb says that the 840C has "specially designed vibration absorbing feet". This is a stretch. If you care to pull the 840C apart you will find the screwmount is damped down the inside of the foot. The cheaper Azur players have a hard mount. Cambridge use a solid outer polymer which in their view makes the unit more stable. The feet most definately are not sorbothane, but an undisclosed compound. The footers are a widely acknowledged weakness of the 840C. When checking with Cambridge Audio they advised me that an isolation platform is a good investment if looking for an upgrade.


I cant comment about your power cord, (my audioquest is almost 2x's as thick as the stock power cord, and it also has an EMF filter built in along with a higher quality plug. Maybe I have higher quality power lines coming into my house which is only 16yrs old.)
but the feet on my unit looks as feels like the sorbithane on another piece of equipment I have. Whether it definitely is sorbithane on the 840c, I cant confirm it. I have no doubt that CA could improve on the vibration isolation of the unit

[ldgibson76]

I have used the SID in both my Marantz CD5001 and Marantz SA8001 and hear a true sonic improvement. Better focus, smoother treble and greater definition when the SID is used. I am not sure how much improvement you will hear with the CA 640C but I would think it would be a benefit. Several members use the SID in various players and report benefits.

Thanks for the input "JM"!

I am going to order it see if it makes a difference. I'll let you know how it goes!

[kiwi_1282001]

[

but the feet on my unit looks as feels like the sorbithane on another piece of equipment I have. Whether it definitely is sorbithane on the 840c, I cant confirm it. I have no doubt that CA could improve on the vibration isolation of the unit

Just so we are 100% clear, i asked Cambridge Audio directly whether the feet on the 840C are sorbothane. Their answer was No.

[blackraven]

I believe you!

[Feanor]

I believe you!

A relatively cheap source is Edmund Scientific's. This half the cost of Sorbothane sheets from audio vendors, and much, much cheaper than brand name isoloation feet, e.g. BrightStar IsoNodes.

[blackraven]

Here's an update on the 840c. I have over 100hrs playing time and I have to say that the sound can cause a bit of fatigue on certain recordings. For music with a lot of detail like jazz it sounds great. Vocals are fantastick. Overall I'm very pleased with the sound. But I find rock music the most fatigueing. I find my modified musichall better for rock. I can listen to the MH all day and not tire. I think with a warmer amp the 840c would match better. My adcom is a little on the neutral to bright side. I'm going to see what happens at 200hrs burn in, which seems to be the magical number for the best sound from the 840c before I decide which new 2ch amp I buy.

[Mr Peabody]

You might try picking up an Adcom 5500 to strap to your receiver. I am really amazed with that amp. It's more balanced than the 5400 I had, more bottom end athority and not as bright, a tamer upper midrange. The way you describe your set up the 5500 could be a nice fit to balance things. Also a very strong 200 wpc don't hurt.

I forget what amps you were considering. You should probably gravitate toward warmer character amps like Rotel, NAD Master or Musical Fidelity. If you think your Adcom/CA is fatiguing you wouldn't want to use a CA amp or other livelier models.

[Feanor]

Here's an update on the 840c. I have over 100hrs playing time and I have to say that the sound can cause a bit of fatigue on certain recordings. For music with a lot of detail like jazz it sounds great. Vocals are fantastick. Overall I'm very pleased with the sound. But I find rock music the most fatigueing. I find my modified musichall better for rock. I can listen to the MH all day and not tire. I think with a warmer amp the 840c would match better. My adcom is a little on the neutral to bright side. I'm going to see what happens at 200hrs burn in, which seems to be the magical number for the best sound from the 840c before I decide which new 2ch amp I buy.

B/R, I'd love to hear the 840C passed through my tube preamp and thence my Monarchy amps. Hello! Didn't I recommend you upgrade your amp? I dare say it are the real source of your issue rather than the Cambridge. That said, I find rock music fatiguing regardless of what it's played on.

I owned an Adcom 555II which was a pleasant, sliglty warm and "dark" sounding amp, but it wasn't in the big leagues for resolution.

[Mr Peabody]

I haven't A/B'd the 5500 with much, I've had my Krell in that system which isn't quite a fair fight, the 5500 is cleaner than the 5400. I don't know if it has a lack of real resolution or if it's the darker warm sound that gives it that impression. I do know with my CJ DAC the system is pretty impressive. And that's with just the 450 preamp. This is why I'm so interested in trying a better preamp. It's hard to say how an amp will work in another system for synergy but my system seems to have it for now. Another thing that helps with resolution is using Dynaudio Audience 60's. I'm just taken back by the pleasing sound of this some what modest system. It should also be noted that this particular system is mostly used for Rock and Pop as it's in my work out room. This room is also still in need of some treatment so I wonder how this system would sound in a more deadened room. It may not come off as good.

[blackraven]

My current amp sounds great with the modded Music Hall CDP which has a warmer sound since being modified. I plan on up grading my amp to a 2 ch amp with at least 200wpc. I've been looking at used Classe, Mac, Bryston and CJ amps to name a few. I might even go with a tube preamp like a used AR. I cant afford to buy one just yet. I was even thinking about a B&K amp for its warm rich sound even though its a lower tier amp, but I think I'll wait and go with a higher quality amp.

Its not that the 840c sounds bad with my current equipment, its just that it can be a little bright and annoying after a while with certain recordings. I still love the CDP and I can use my MH for the brighter sounding music for now. I would still buy the 840c knowing what I know now. The detail is just amazing for a CDP in this price range.

I a few weeks I will be running my HD digital cable TV audio through the DAC of the 840c. I'll let you know how that works out.

[Mr Peabody]

BR, I think you'd enjoy a CJ set up. There were some good deals on used CJ preamps on Audiogon.

[nightflier]

...And even if CA is cutting corners with the power cord and feet, what are they saving-$10-50's at most. The power cord that comes with the 840c is your standard computer power cord.

Sorry if I keep asking the same question, but cutting corners on feet and a power cord saves them maybe $50 on the player. I seriously doubt those were the only corners that were cut.

I'm currently using a Audio Refinement Complete player connected to an older Aragon DAC. I know that's quite a bit less expensive, but I've listened to at least a dozen combinations, and so far this setup still sounds best to my ears. But I do plan on replacing it. The CDP is getting a bit long in the tooth and that plastic disk tray really does worry me. I'm actually amazed that in all the years I've owned it I've never had a problem with it. And the DAC is a tank although I have heard better ones in other systems.

So I'm on the lookout for a new player, budget is around $2K (new). Rega, Simaudio, Bryston, and Music Hall / Creek, are on my list, but now I'm told that the Cambridge 840c will give these a run for the money at $700+ less. So realistically, is this player in the same league as these other $2K-ish players?

(I have a few different brands of squishy feet, even Mapleshade brass cones, and a whole pile of power cords, so that's not an issue).

[jrhymeammo]

Have you considered Benchmark DAC with USB? It has a volumn control so you can plug it directly to your amp.

That little box is the most amazing thing I have heard in a long time. If you have loads of Lossless files, you may never reach out for a CD ever again.

Just somem to think about, since you are into that whole computer thang thang.....

JRA

[blackraven]

I read a review of the 840c and there was a comment about how other CD manufacturers
are wondering how Cambridge Audio can make a CDP so good and sell it at that price.
The answer could be lower profit margins, better elctronics like the dual Anogram Technology DAC's and up converting music to 384kHz. Most people don't know the mark up on eletronic parts, but is is tremendous. I use to work for my fathers computer company and saw the mark up on parts purchased for their computers and I couldnt believe that mark ups were up to 1000%.

I dont really believe that CA cut corners. You could say that about any piece of electronic equipment. When electronic equipment is designed the company usually has a price point in mind and design their product accordingly. I guess if you want to call that cutting corners, then every product on the market can be accused of that. If you want a CDP with top of the line every thing then your going to pay through the nose on a $20,000 CDP that probably cost less than 2K to build.

As far as CA not using sorbithane feet and a $100 power cord, show me some studies where it makes a huge diffenence in sound. Sorbithane feet will only help if you have significant problems with vibration due to placement of the CDP.

CA is out to sell CDP's at a reasonable cost to consumers and tacking on another $50-100 for power cord's and feet is not in their cost-sound benefit. If these things made such a huge difference in sound, dont you think that all companies would include them on their equipment?

[Ajani]

I read a review of the 840c and there was a comment about how other CD manufacturers
are wondering how Cambridge Audio can make a CDP so good and sell it at that price.
The answer could be lower profit margins, better elctronics like the dual Anogram Technology DAC's and up converting music to 384kHz. Most people don't know the mark up on eletronic parts, but is is tremendous. I use to work for my fathers computer company and saw the mark up on parts purchased for their computers and I couldnt believe that mark ups were up to 1000%.

I dont really believe that CA cut corners. You could say that about any piece of electronic equipment. When electronic equipment is designed the company usually has a price point in mind and design their product accordingly. I guess if you want to call that cutting corners, then every product on the market can be accused of that. If you want a CDP with top of the line every thing then your going to pay through the nose on a $20,000 CDP that probably cost less than 2K to build.

As far as CA not using sorbithane feet and a $100 power cord, show me some studies where it makes a huge diffenence in sound. Sorbithane feet will only help if you have significant problems with vibration due to placement of the CDP.

CA is out to sell CDP's at a reasonable cost to consumers and tacking on another $50-100 for power cord's and feet is not in their cost-sound benefit. If these things made such a huge difference in sound, dont you think that all companies would include them on their equipment?

There are a couple of factors that may explain how CA can produce a great CD player at such a low cost:

1) The Gap between the best and the rest is not as wide as it used to be.... looking at the number of Stereophile Class A rated digital components in the under $2K price range suggests that you can get a top quality CD player for the price of the CA.... The Rega Apollo, Benchmark DAC 1, Marantz SA8001 and Quad 99CDP are all Class A and substantially less that $2K... and based on the review of the Musical Fidelity X-DAC V8, I expect it will be Class A rated as well....

2) CA seems to have gone for a different approach to CD playback.... CD technology is pretty old by this point, so while many brands just go for the established dac/op amps/upsampling... a few like Rega and CA try something a little (or a lot) different and get great results.... In other words: The CA has excellent build quality for it's price range and even a bit above, but the real magic maybe the use of higher upsampling than other players and not that it is built like a $6K player....

[Mr Peabody]

No, I think manufacturers make an adequate product with adequate power cords and feet. Can you buy better, yes. The manufacturer leaves that up to the purchaser to decide if they want to tweak the machine. Just like when you buy a car the tires are adequate for the vehicle but you could always buy Michelin or Perrelli. The performance of most vehicles are adequate off the lot but some choose to switch out engine parts etc. for more horse power and performance. You can't assume a manufacturer puts a product out at a certain price and uses the best parts possible for that product. No matter what a manufacturer says about how well they tested their gear, there will always be some one to roll the tubes, replace the caps with better ones etc. For those of us who don't know which end of a solder iron to use we try power cords, feet etc. I've had excellent results with upgraded power cords. I personally believe how well a tweak works depends on the environment the particular gear is in. One person's home may have different negatives that effect equipment than another. I feel this is one of the main reasons for controversy over tweaks. That and the fact that some shoot an idea or product down before they actually try it. Face it, there's a lot in this world we can't explain. Believe me, before trying a power cord, I didn't believe they had any effect either. I couldn't deny the improvement I heard though and eventually replaced every power cord that was detachable in my system. I haven't played around much with vibration isolation. My floor is carpet over concrete and I didn't think vibration was a factor. On the other hand I really don't know that much about how it gets into a system other than being transferred.

[blackraven]

I agree with both Anjani and Mr. P. As far as power cords go. My MusicHall CDP can with its original power cord and an upgraded AQ power cord which was supposed to make a significant difference in sound. There's not one bit of difference that my family or my friends can hear. Thats my only experience with power cords. Of course I'm one of those non believers that $1k IC's and speaker cables can make a dramatic difference in sound.

Being a doctor, I see the power of placebo every day. I guess I'm cynical and a skeptic