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Wire is no Wire: The proof? You decide!
Brought home identical CD players.
Hook them up to my linestage. CD player one connected to the linestage via a interconnect from a high-end manufacturer. CD player two connected to the linestage via a cheap Radio Shack interconnect. Too bad Home Depoit does not make them!
Placed to indentical CD into each players.
Four friends sitting in room; the test subjects. They had no idea what I was going to do. None of them are even close to being audiophiles! Hell, two do not even own a system, just Boom Boxes. They thought me stranger than usual!
Pressed play on both remotes; made sure that the CD's were timed exactly!
Then I proceeded to switch back and forth between the two Cd players by turning selector knob on my linestage; input one and two.
Would the test subjects hear a difference?
YES, THEY DID!!! Not just one or two of then, but all four!
Take my test for what you will. Those you do not believe in the benefits a interconnect can make to the sound of a system, please, keep believing in what you believe in. I know you will shoot dowm my test because it wasn't a DBT. I'm sure you will find some kind of fault with how I conducted my test; you have to!
For those who are intrested in the notion that interconnects MAY benefit the sound your systems, try this test for yourself. Let YOUR EARS decide for you! DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, PLEASE! Try this test yourselves. Again, what do you have to lose?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bturk667
Brought home identical CD players.
Hook them up to my linestage. CD player one connected to the linestage via a interconnect from a high-end manufacturer. CD player two connected to the linestage via a cheap Radio Shack interconnect. Too bad Home Depoit does not make them!
Placed to indentical CD into each players.
Four friends sitting in room; the test subjects. They had no idea what I was going to do. None of them are even close to being audiophiles! Hell, two do not even own a system, just Boom Boxes. They thought me stranger than usual!
Pressed play on both remotes; made sure that the CD's were timed exactly!
Then I proceeded to switch back and forth between the two Cd players by turning selector knob on my linestage; input one and two.
Would the test subjects hear a difference?
YES, THEY DID!!! Not just one or two of then, but all four!
Take my test for what you will. Those you do not believe in the benefits a interconnect can make to the sound of a system, please, keep believing in what you believe in. I know you will shoot dowm my test because it wasn't a DBT. I'm sure you will find some kind of fault with how I conducted my test; you have to!
For those who are intrested in the notion that interconnects MAY benefit the sound your systems, try this test for yourself. Let YOUR EARS decide for you! DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, PLEASE! Try this test yourselves. Again, what do you have to lose?
I believe interconnects can make a difference, and it could be they did in your system. However, your experiment probably won't convince any doubters, since it wasn't double blind. From your description, I can't tell whether it was single-blind. Was the switching just AB,BA or did you try to conceal which interconnect was being used by adding some AA and BB?
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...........Why bother? What's the difference?...........Zapr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bturk667
Brought home identical CD players.
Hook them up to my linestage. CD player one connected to the linestage via a interconnect from a high-end manufacturer. CD player two connected to the linestage via a cheap Radio Shack interconnect. Too bad Home Depoit does not make them!
Placed to indentical CD into each players.
Four friends sitting in room; the test subjects. They had no idea what I was going to do. None of them are even close to being audiophiles! Hell, two do not even own a system, just Boom Boxes. They thought me stranger than usual!
Pressed play on both remotes; made sure that the CD's were timed exactly!
Then I proceeded to switch back and forth between the two Cd players by turning selector knob on my linestage; input one and two.
Would the test subjects hear a difference?
YES, THEY DID!!! Not just one or two of then, but all four!
Take my test for what you will. Those you do not believe in the benefits a interconnect can make to the sound of a system, please, keep believing in what you believe in. I know you will shoot dowm my test because it wasn't a DBT. I'm sure you will find some kind of fault with how I conducted my test; you have to!
For those who are intrested in the notion that interconnects MAY benefit the sound your systems, try this test for yourself. Let YOUR EARS decide for you! DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, PLEASE! Try this test yourselves. Again, what do you have to lose?
You mean besides the fact there is no way you can exactly cue them with a remote, nor were they level matched, nor were they even characterized for frequency response differences.
-Bruce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bturk667
I know you will shoot dowm my test because it wasn't a DBT.
sorry, but what does DBT stand for ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki
sorry, but what does DBT stand for ?
Double-Blind Test
See this link for an explanation:
http://skepdic.com/control.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockwell
Thanks for the link Rockwell.
Here's what I got from the article
"A double-blind test is a control group test where neither the evaluator nor the subject knows which items are controls."
So I'm assuming a single-blind test would be...
A single-blind test is a control group test where the subject does not know which items are controls but the evaluator does. (my definition) Is it correct ?
Given that, I have the same question about this experiment that another reply did. Was it at least single-blinded ? Or did you lead the witnesses ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikki
Thanks for the link Rockwell.
Here's what I got from the article
"A double-blind test is a control group test where neither the evaluator nor the subject knows which items are controls."
So I'm assuming a single-blind test would be...
A single-blind test is a control group test where the subject does not know which items are controls but the evaluator does. (my definition) Is it correct ?
Given that, I have the same question about this experiment that another reply did. Was it at least single-blinded ? Or did you lead the witnesses ?
Yes, with single blind the person running the test knows what is being tested and may communicate with the testers invalidating the results.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bturk667
Brought home identical CD players.
Hook them up to my linestage. CD player one connected to the linestage via a interconnect from a high-end manufacturer. CD player two connected to the linestage via a cheap Radio Shack interconnect. Too bad Home Depoit does not make them!
Placed to indentical CD into each players.
Four friends sitting in room; the test subjects. They had no idea what I was going to do. None of them are even close to being audiophiles! Hell, two do not even own a system, just Boom Boxes. They thought me stranger than usual!
Pressed play on both remotes; made sure that the CD's were timed exactly!
Then I proceeded to switch back and forth between the two Cd players by turning selector knob on my linestage; input one and two.
Would the test subjects hear a difference?
YES, THEY DID!!! Not just one or two of then, but all four!
Take my test for what you will. Those you do not believe in the benefits a interconnect can make to the sound of a system, please, keep believing in what you believe in. I know you will shoot dowm my test because it wasn't a DBT. I'm sure you will find some kind of fault with how I conducted my test; you have to!
For those who are intrested in the notion that interconnects MAY benefit the sound your systems, try this test for yourself. Let YOUR EARS decide for you! DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, PLEASE! Try this test yourselves. Again, what do you have to lose?
Beside what the others mentioned, how did you make sure the two CDs were in fact identical? Did you do a bit perfect check? Or just relied ont eh fact that the titles are the same?
Sorry, but to date, no DBT has been able to corroborate your findings. Maybe next year, Next century?
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Single blind test. There was no need to conceal the interconnects; they had no idea what was being tested. Okay, well other than themselves.
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Sorry, it is quite easy to cue them with a remote!
Level match? Why?
"Nor were they ever characterized for frequency response differences." How do you know they weren't. I never wrote either way. Would that make a difference it the way they would make my system sound?
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None of that was done I assure you!
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Trust me, it was no bother. In fact it was quite fun!
The difference is that there is a difference!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bturk667
None of that was done I assure you!
I believe you. :D
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Thank you, that is very nice of you! Most here would not have!?!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrycraft
Beside what the others mentioned, how did you make sure the two CDs were in fact identical? Did you do a bit perfect check? Or just relied ont eh fact that the titles are the same?
Sorry, but to date, no DBT has been able to corroborate your findings. Maybe next year, Next century?
"Beside what the others mentioned, how did you make sure the two CDs were in fact identical? Did you do a bit perfect check? Or just relied ont eh fact that the titles are the same?"
Are you intentionally attempting to obliterate your credibility, or is it just inadvertent?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bturk667
Brought home identical CD players.
Hook them up to my linestage. CD player one connected to the linestage via a interconnect from a high-end manufacturer. CD player two connected to the linestage via a cheap Radio Shack interconnect. Too bad Home Depoit does not make them!
Placed to indentical CD into each players.
Four friends sitting in room; the test subjects. They had no idea what I was going to do. None of them are even close to being audiophiles! Hell, two do not even own a system, just Boom Boxes. They thought me stranger than usual!
Pressed play on both remotes; made sure that the CD's were timed exactly!
Then I proceeded to switch back and forth between the two Cd players by turning selector knob on my linestage; input one and two.
Would the test subjects hear a difference?
YES, THEY DID!!! Not just one or two of then, but all four!
Take my test for what you will. Those you do not believe in the benefits a interconnect can make to the sound of a system, please, keep believing in what you believe in. I know you will shoot dowm my test because it wasn't a DBT. I'm sure you will find some kind of fault with how I conducted my test; you have to!
For those who are intrested in the notion that interconnects MAY benefit the sound your systems, try this test for yourself. Let YOUR EARS decide for you! DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, PLEASE! Try this test yourselves. Again, what do you have to lose?
You did simply what the regulars here have been lectururing people to do for years - conduct a simply, at-home blind test.
But ALAS. Your results don't coincide with their religious view of wires and accordingly you are being "crucified". Who needs the Mel Gibson when you've got this group?
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One might wonder if the cables in question wer of the same length, gauge and construction. Likewise, due to accceptable production differences among hte same units, there is the possibility that one unit is minutely "louder" then the other.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pctower
"Beside what the others mentioned, how did you make sure the two CDs were in fact identical? Did you do a bit perfect check? Or just relied ont eh fact that the titles are the same?"
Are you intentionally attempting to obliterate your credibility, or is it just inadvertent?
You never heard of CD with the same title having different EQ applied to it? It happens and one doesn't know when in th epressing a new one is introduced. No, I don't have titles for you. People in the know know.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pctower
You did simply what the regulars here have been lectururing people to do for years - conduct a simply, at-home blind test.
But ALAS. Your results don't coincide with their religious view of wires and accordingly you are being "crucified". Who needs the Mel Gibson when you've got this group?
Naw, just questioning his results that no one else have replicated. I wonder if his simple test had a problem? Introduced bias by him? Other basic stuff? After all, the more flaws, the more positive outcomes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
One might wonder if the cables in question wer of the same length, gauge and construction. Likewise, due to accceptable production differences among hte same units, there is the possibility that one unit is minutely "louder" then the other.
Usually you would not admit that length, guage or construction would give any audiable difference yet now you question it.
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Oh,
I made similar tests with a idential CD and a CD player and a separate DAC with cheap cables from the DAC. Several times. No difference among the listeners. Oh yes, on one occasion by two listeners (including myself) but ascribed to that the DAC had about 0.4 dB higher output level than the CD player.
T
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External validity
As I have been reading posts from both sides of the debate, it seems that the research literature does not provide a definitive answer about whether differences in cables exist that can affect sound quality. Given the lack of research evidence, it is difficult for me to understand how people can make such strong definitive statements for either side of the debate since most of us seem to be relying on our own anecdotal evidence. The focus of the debate often seems to be on the internal validity of the listening sessions, i.e., was a DBT performed or not performed, which is an important aspect of a well designed experiment.
It also seems important to consider the external validity of the listening sessions, which does not seem to be discussed that often in the cable debate. The externality validity of the listening sessions seems to be especially important given that there are so many variables that can affect sound quality besides the cables and bias. These variables vary from system to system and include the quality of the speakers, cd players, amps, pre amps, quality of the cd recording, and room acoustics. Just because I can or can not hear a difference in cables in my system may not necessarily predict whether someone else will hear or will not hear a difference in cables in their system because we could have very different systems. Since we are generally relying on anecdotal evidence, the strongest statement that it seems we can make is that cables may make a difference in some system and not in other systems and this can be due to actual cable differences, poor internal validity (no DBT, bias), or poor external validity.
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