Here are some problems when evaluating cables...

[Pat D]

Well, maybe you are too invested in the idea of blinded testing to consider other possibilities. A recent post at AA gave two possible but opposite reasons why there have been no positive double-blind tests of cables: (1) there are no audible differences in cables, or (2) the tests don't work. It would be easier for me to believe the tests work if there were a few positive results for cables.

Well, a lot of people have tried to maintain that DBTs don't work for some mysterious reason. Why you single out cables as something special is a question, but in fact there have been some positive results with small and large gauge cables and relatively long lengths. We have mentioned some of them in the past. I am not home so I can't look them, but I think there is an article by David Clark. Anyway, your stated criterion is met: is it in fact easier for you to accept DBT results?

[okiemax]

Well, a lot of people have tried to maintain that DBTs don't work for some mysterious reason. Why you single out cables as something special is a question, but in fact there have been some positive results with small and large gauge cables and relatively long lengths. We have mentioned some of them in the past. I am not home so I can't look them, but I think there is an article by David Clark. Anyway, your stated criterion is met: is it in fact easier for you to accept DBT results?

Yes, I know about tests that have shown audible differences as results of gauge and length of cables. I have experienced this first hand comparing 8' lengths of speaker wire with 30' lenghts on a pair of nominally 4 ohm speakers. The difference was NOT SUBTLE, and certainly not something I felt a need to confirm with blinded testing. However, my understanding is that the discussion here is about audiophile cables of comparable length and gauge. If you refer to mtrycraft's post, you will see he says "comparable cables."

[mtrycraft]

However, my understanding is that the discussion here is about audiophile cables of comparable length and gauge. If you refer to mtrycraft's post, you will see he says "comparable cables."

Now why would a dbt not work?
After all, DBT is used by audio science to ste threshold levels of detection?
All these excuses, speculations to explain away null data, yet, not a single golden ear can demonstrate audible differences. Why? Sighted listening is not an option to determine differences in cables. That is a non starter. DBTs work. PERIOD.

[okiemax]

Now why would a dbt not work?
After all, DBT is used by audio science to ste threshold levels of detection?
All these excuses, speculations to explain away null data, yet, not a single golden ear can demonstrate audible differences. Why? Sighted listening is not an option to determine differences in cables. That is a non starter. DBTs work. PERIOD.

Have there been studies that show DBT's are a reliable way of verifying audiophile claims of hearing differences in cables while listening to music? If not, perhaps research in this area could help move the cable debate beyond what appears to be a stalemate or dead end.

[skeptic]

Have there been studies that show DBT's are a reliable way of verifying audiophile claims of hearing differences in cables while listening to music? If not, perhaps research in this area could help move the cable debate beyond what appears to be a stalemate or dead end.

If you read Cable Asylum's position on DBTs, they state clearly and emphatically that DBTs are the only reliable way to distinguish subtle differences in the sound of different audio components. Discussion of DBTs is not permitted at that site. The reason given is that it causes too many flame wars. (Given the sharp arguements that sometimes occur there, discussion of DBTs is not the only source of flame wars.)

[E-Stat]

Discussion of DBTs is not permitted at that site. The reason given is that it causes too many flame wars.

Not exactly correct. Not allowed on cable forum. Discussion of DBTs is encouraged at Prop Head and allowed elsewhere on the website.

rw

[okiemax]

If you read Cable Asylum's position on DBTs, they state clearly and emphatically that DBTs are the only reliable way to distinguish subtle differences in the sound of different audio components. Discussion of DBTs is not permitted at that site. The reason given is that it causes too many flame wars. (Given the sharp arguements that sometimes occur there, discussion of DBTs is not the only source of flame wars.)

I didn't know Cable Asylum had an official position regarding the reliability of double-blind testing. Where would I find this position presented?

I agree that in theory blinded testing would appear to be the only way to test without bias. But "only way" doesn't necessarily mean "reliable way." How do we know it is reliable?

[mtrycraft]

How do we know it is reliable?

One only has to check what is used in industry, research and to publish. DBT listening.
Sighted listening for small differences has nothing going for it.

Oh, the official AA stand on DBT is somewhere in ther FAQ about wire or something. So, even they accept the de facto testing methodology. Interesting, isn't it?