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  1. #1
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    Fiber Optic Digital vs Coax Digital Audio?

    Are these connections both the same quality of sound?
    What are the differences and is one better than the other to use?

  2. #2
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    Fiber Optic Digital vs Coax Digital Audio?

    Are these connections both the same quality of sound?
    What are the differences and is one better than the other to use?

  3. #3
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Mostly, 1's and 0's are 1's and 0's. But coax seems to be the favorite for being more durable, and the signal doesn't need to be changed from electrical to optical at one end and back at the other. Most people seem to think that this doesn't add up to much, if any, loss but some claim it does.
    With all that said, I have all optical cables.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  4. #4
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  5. #5
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    Okay.
    The set up I'm will have is
    DVD which has Optical and Coax,
    Tivo which has Optical,
    and PS2 which has Optical.
    The dvd is what I want the best sound with, but I have no other option with my receiver. It only has 2 optical and 1 coax.
    Is there anything to consider when buying a Coax cable? brand, quality..what will get the best sound?

    Or am I just just being paranoid?

  6. #6
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbelous
    Okay.
    The set up I'm will have is
    DVD which has Optical and Coax,
    Tivo which has Optical,
    and PS2 which has Optical.
    The dvd is what I want the best sound with, but I have no other option with my receiver. It only has 2 optical and 1 coax.
    Is there anything to consider when buying a Coax cable? brand, quality..what will get the best sound?

    Or am I just just being paranoid?
    I have optical cables running from $50 monster cables to the tiny 1/8" thick one that came with my CDR. All sound the same to me, although I do only have modest equipment compaired to others here. The biggest difference should be that the $50 cable is more durable. My $50 cable stopped working. The crappy little one still sounds fine. Go figure. I wend with Dayton Audio cables. They offer good quality at a reasonable price. Try this website.

    Here for coax: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ctGroup_ID=599

    Here for optical: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ctGroup_ID=151
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  7. #7
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    there you go!

  8. #8
    nerd ericl's Avatar
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    Exclamation one thread per subject please!

    Please don't make duplicate threads. Thank you.

    your friend,
    eric

  9. #9
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    I used to only use Optical cables, but then I tried a Coaxial cables from White Zombie Audio and Tara Labs and noticed more improvement, not just in durability, but also in a faster response. The Optical Cable I use now is only for the Cable Box, which works fine, but my DVD player and SACD player I use the Coaxial. Alot of the Optical cables seem flimsy and often become unplugged with just an easy pull on the cable, plus they are difficult to line up when connecting, wheras the Coaxial is just a simple RCA connection.

  10. #10
    Crackhead Extraordinaire Dusty Chalk's Avatar
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    The common wisdom is that coax is better, but I don't buy it -- I've used both, and use whichever. In fact, one thing optical is good for is RF isolation -- no ground loop hum, no shielding, etc. Go ahead and use the coax, it'll be fine. I use both Hosa and Radio Shack digital cables. Here, look at this -- 65.6 foot cable for only $40!!!1! I have no idea what you need 65 feet of digital cable for, but...it's only $40 bucks! If you want to be stingy, they have another one that's half the length for $25.
    Eschew fascism.
    Truth Will Out.
    Quote Originally Posted by stevef22
    you guys are crackheads.
    I remain,
    Peter aka Dusty Chalk

  11. #11
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Heck, just use an old interconnect you've got lying around.

    You'll be surprised at how well it works.

  12. #12
    Crackhead Extraordinaire Dusty Chalk's Avatar
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    No, don't do that.
    Eschew fascism.
    Truth Will Out.
    Quote Originally Posted by stevef22
    you guys are crackheads.
    I remain,
    Peter aka Dusty Chalk

  13. #13
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk
    No, don't do that.
    Works great for a digital interconnect. Trust me on this.

  14. #14
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    Works great for a digital interconnect. Trust me on this.
    yep. I agree. that's the point of digital.

  15. #15
    Crackhead Extraordinaire Dusty Chalk's Avatar
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    No, not all of them will work -- only use digital interconnects for digital interconnects. Some analog interconnects don't have the right bandwidth. The ones you two chose might have worked, but (a) I will not guarantee that it will continue to work, and (b) I will certainly not guarantee that all analog interconnects will work. Bad advice.
    Eschew fascism.
    Truth Will Out.
    Quote Originally Posted by stevef22
    you guys are crackheads.
    I remain,
    Peter aka Dusty Chalk

  16. #16
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Absolutely no guarantees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk
    No, not all of them will work -- only use digital interconnects for digital interconnects. Some analog interconnects don't have the right bandwidth. The ones you two chose might have worked, but (a) I will not guarantee that it will continue to work, and (b) I will certainly not guarantee that all analog interconnects will work. Bad advice.
    But, if there's one lying (laying?) around, what's it cost to try it?

    FWIW, I once tried an old, yellowed and cracked audio interconnect that I since the early 60's for a digital coax and it worked just fine. I did wind up replacing it with a more modern, inexpensive "yellow plug" video cable, purely because it was utt bugly, and that too worked just fine.

    So, who knows? He may get lucky and save a few $$ too.

  17. #17
    Audio casualty StevenSurprenant's Avatar
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    You need to try both

    I tried several coax cables, each sounding slightly different.

    I then tried an plastic optical cable and in my system, it sounded better than the coax. I then tried glass optical and it had the best transparency of all.

    Each system is different and depending on your speakers and electronics you may not hear a difference or the difference may seem large depending on your point of reference.

    What I find changes the most as I tweak the system in with cables is a change in transparency.

    Understand that digital can only sound different if the bits are different and without error checking, that is a very possible senario.

    Back in the day when I used to use separate transports and DAC's, each transport sounded different even though I would used the same DAC. When I would switch to another DAC, the difference still existed and each transport had the same sonic signature that it had with the other DAC.

    The point is that, without error checking, digital audio is far from perfect. That being the case, you need to try different things and settle for what you think works best in your system.

    Enjoy!

  18. #18
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    I guess you didn't understand what Hermanv explained to you in the other thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSurprenant
    I tried several coax cables, each sounding slightly different.
    Considering the very nature of a digital signal, I find this claim highly debatable from a scientific standpoint. But not from a religious one, though, so I'll just leave it at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSurprenant
    Understand that digital can only sound different if the bits are different and without error checking, that is a very possible senario.

    The point is that, without error checking, digital audio is far from perfect.
    What digital devices have you used that don't include error checking, or, more precisely, error "correction", as part of the basic package? I can't ever recall dealing with a digital system that doesn't include this.

    Now had you said "ineffective" error checking/correction, I wouldn't have bothered to post this but, since you did, I'll just say that the differences you hear are more indicative of a failing within the DAC's error correction circuitry than with the interconnects themselves.

    Markw (With aplolgies to Billy Joel, "Everybody's talkin' 'bout the new sound funny, but It's still ones and zeroes to me")
    Last edited by markw; 02-18-2007 at 12:19 PM.

  19. #19
    Audio casualty StevenSurprenant's Avatar
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    markw- I did not say error correction

    I said error checking.

    A computer uses check sums to make sure that the data retrieved from a hard drive is correct. I think that HDMI does the same, but, to my knowledge, standard digital from a cd player has no such error checking. The DAC assumes what it receives is correct and goes with it, to a point...

    A CD player does incorporate error correction, but the final output can be different than what was recorded on the CD. It uses interpolation, which is in effect a guess of what it thinks the data should be. Sometimes it gets it right, sometimes it doesn't.

    A computer does not guess. It is either right or wrong. If the data is wrong, the operation will stop and you will receive an error message. A music CD player will keep processing data even with errors as long as it can get enough data to perform error correction.

    Mark,

    What is your problem? Let me be frank. I do not buy into your concept that wire is wire. I used to until proven wrong and no, I don't need double blind tests to prove that I'm right. Yes, there are systems that sound the same no matter what wire you use, perhaps yours is one of those, but rarely do I meet anyone who cannot hear the same sonic characteristics from different wires that I hear.

    You can go on believing that wire is wire, I couldn't care less. There is nothing that you have ever said that would make me change my mind. I too am very sceptical of certain claims in audio, but I don't get on peoples backs about it. I don't see what purpose it serves. Why would I want to rain on their parade if they are having fun?

    The only people I've ever said anything about are the ones that make it a point to be obnoxious. There are other people on this forum that say wire doesn't matter and they leave it at that. They don't make it a big issue. If that's what they believe and that's fine. For some people their advice is good.

    Look, I know that your feathers are all ruffled now and you're going to pick this posting apart to prove your point, but just relax and let us enjoy ourselves. This is not a personal issue.

    The end...

  20. #20
    Forum Regular royphil345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSurprenant
    I tried several coax cables, each sounding slightly different.

    I then tried an plastic optical cable and in my system, it sounded better than the coax. I then tried glass optical and it had the best transparency of all.

    Enjoy!

    I have to pretty much agree with that. I know it doesn't make much sense...

    I've definitely heard an improvement switching from a plastic optical cable to an inexpensive glass one off eBay.

    I was just playing around yesterday with switching the coax cable between my new M-Audio Audiophile and my receiver. It sounded great at first when I had it temporarily hooked up with a yellow-tipped video cable I had lying around. I switched it to a new Acoustic Research digital audio cable just for the heck of it and the sound got very noticeably thinner. I don't know which one is "better". I know they sound different though. Believe it or not...

    Right now I'm thinking the old video cable sounds better. Might be a case of cheap, thin conductors in the Acoustic Research cable. I've never cared much for their anolog cables for that reason. Figured it wouldn't matter with digital...

  21. #21
    Audio casualty StevenSurprenant's Avatar
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    royphil345

    My system is mainly digital. I use glass optical from my DVD player to my Digital equalizer and a cheap balanced digital cable to my Digital electronic crossover. From there it outputs analog to my digital receiver where it is reconverted back into digital. That is the only analog circuit in the system. I am running DH Labs Q10 to the tweeters and DH Labs Air Matrix on the analog side of my tweeter. The bass side of my system is zip cord and Nordost Blue Heaven. By the way, DH Labs made a significant improvement in the clarity. I have a balanced DH Labs 110 cable coming in the mail to replace the cheap digital cable that I am now using. I have high hopes, but the proof is in the using. More than once have cheaper cables been the better alternative.

    If you are interested, I'll let you know the results. Later I will be trying different cables on the bass side.

    My speakers are homemade based on the Newform Research R645 tweeter.

    I've also owed B&W and Quad ESL. The present system has the greatest clarity, but the Quads had the best midrange.

    My present system is relative inexpensive compared to the Quad system, but it is still impressive for what it is.


    Take care...

  22. #22
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    What I find really, really interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSurprenant
    I said error checking.

    A computer uses check sums to make sure that the data retrieved from a hard drive is correct. I think that HDMI does the same, but, to my knowledge, standard digital from a cd player has no such error checking. The DAC assumes what it receives is correct and goes with it, to a point...

    A CD player does incorporate error correction, but the final output can be different than what was recorded on the CD. It uses interpolation, which is in effect a guess of what it thinks the data should be. Sometimes it gets it right, sometimes it doesn't.

    A computer does not guess. It is either right or wrong. If the data is wrong, the operation will stop and you will receive an error message. A music CD player will keep processing data even with errors as long as it can get enough data to perform error correction.

    Mark,

    What is your problem? Let me be frank. I do not buy into your concept that wire is wire. I used to until proven wrong and no, I don't need double blind tests to prove that I'm right. Yes, there are systems that sound the same no matter what wire you use, perhaps yours is one of those, but rarely do I meet anyone who cannot hear the same sonic characteristics from different wires that I hear.

    You can go on believing that wire is wire, I couldn't care less. There is nothing that you have ever said that would make me change my mind. I too am very sceptical of certain claims in audio, but I don't get on peoples backs about it. I don't see what purpose it serves. Why would I want to rain on their parade if they are having fun?

    The only people I've ever said anything about are the ones that make it a point to be obnoxious. There are other people on this forum that say wire doesn't matter and they leave it at that. They don't make it a big issue. If that's what they believe and that's fine. For some people their advice is good.

    Look, I know that your feathers are all ruffled now and you're going to pick this posting apart to prove your point, but just relax and let us enjoy ourselves. This is not a personal issue.

    The end...
    ...Is that you've chosen to ignore totally the fine explanation Hermanv provided for you. That's my issue with many people. When presented with harfdfacts to refute their "beliefs", they choose to ignore them and rely on "I believe what the voices in my head tell me".

    In the mean time instead of prolestyzing your beliefs here, perhaps you should finalize that other thread where Hermanv politely and efficiently set you straight and you went a-running, tail between your legs.

    Now, you can posture all you want but, in the end, logic and science are against you. You hear what you want to hear and, maybe, just maybe, whatever differences you attribute to your cables just might be the resut if various biophysical reactions, such as blood pressure, mood, barometric pressure, moisture in the air, air temperature,and, last but not least, hearing only what you want to hear.

    Now if you wish to admit that you have a faulty DAC that's incapable of doing the same job as a $40 disc drive, then we'll talk.

    In the meantime, just get used to the terrorists here but, just to keep even, my listening experiences so far have proven my beliefs.
    Last edited by markw; 02-19-2007 at 06:48 AM.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular royphil345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    Now if you wish to admit that you have a faulty DAC that's incapable of doing the same job as a $40 disc drive, then we'll talk.
    From what I've gathered... The $40.00 disk drive uses a cache and can attempt to correct any errors by re-reading the disk. Audio equipment can only "correct" errors by replacing any missing information with a "guess". Could be totally wrong here... Not sure...

    What's that got to do with the possibility of a cable increasing or decreasing the number of errors between a transport and DAC anyway? I'm telling you... I heard an obvious difference between two digital coax cables just yesterday. I could probably even figure out a way to record wave files of the same sample using the two cables so you could hear the difference for yourself.

  24. #24
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by royphil345
    From what I've gathered... The $40.00 disk drive uses a cache and can attempt to correct any errors by re-reading the disk. Audio equipment can only "correct" errors by replacing any missing information with a "guess". Could be totally wrong here... Not sure...

    What's that got to do with the possibility of a cable increasing or decreasing the number of errors between a transport and DAC anyway? I'm telling you... I heard an obvious difference between two digital coax cables just yesterday. I could probably even figure out a way to record wave files of the same sample using the two cables so you could hear the difference for yourself.
    Again, it's possibly your DAC isn't handling the errors properly. For more on this, see the last page of this thread. Post 91 is where Herman goes into it a bit and Steve just humbly walks away with nothing to say,at least until this thread. Granted, that was in response to a toslink cable but, with digital , ones is ones and zeroes is zeroes and error correction is the same, as it's all done in the electronic, not optical, realm. As for my attitude towards Steve, see post 81 for his auspicious re-enterance here.

    Optical Cable Question

  25. #25
    Forum Regular royphil345's Avatar
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    I don't think it would be a matter of the error handling of the DAC. Like I said... With a standard transport and DAC... Any error will result in a "digital band-aid" being applied. No real recovery of missing / corrupt information is possible. So, the more errors you have between a transport and DAC... the worse the sound will be, no matter how well the error correction is working.

    It may be a case of my equipment being so crappy that the sending and reading of the digital information isn't perfect, and that different cables can actually make some small difference in the number of errors. That's what I would have to believe... And if it's true in my system, it may be a factor in others as well. I swear the difference I heard was beyond anything imagined.
    Last edited by royphil345; 02-19-2007 at 08:13 AM.

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