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  1. #1
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Boston MA

    Do you believe in magic?

    Had a friend over last night to check out my new amp. Earlier this year I gave him my Blue Jeans Cable Belden 10g speaker cables when I purchased a used pair of Acoustic Zen Satori cables.

    So he asked me how the AZ cables had improved the sound, and was it worth the upgrade. I hemmed and said I was happy. But I paid $25 for the BJC (bare ends) and $450 for the AZ cables. Now the AZ cables are quite impressive to look at (about the thickness of a garden hose) and very well made. But perhaps I should have spent the money on vinyl.

    Any good cable stories / opinions out there?
    Marantz PM 11S3 Integrated Amp
    Marantz SA 8004 SACD Player
    Music Hall MMF 9.1 turntable
    Focal Chorus 836V speakers
    Focal Chorus SW 800v subwoofer
    Acoustic Zen Satori speaker cables
    AZ WOW interconnects
    AZ El Nino power cables
    VPI Turntable interconnect
    Sennheiser HD-700 headphones

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Here is a re-copy of an older post I had at AK-

    First let me preface this post to say that the discussion is intended to be between those who have tried cables to alter the sound and can post about their real world experiences. If you need to interject and play the naysayer-DBT Challenge game, please take it elsewhere.

    Using Cables as Tone Controls

    In some discussions here at AK, one member has repeatedly discussed his use of various cables as Tone Controls. After reading his posts and results, and coming across a pair of ICs that I have had for some time now, I was able to tame a particular setup by using this set of cables between my OPPO93, which I think lacks bass output in Analog mode, and my Rotel 1052 Integrated.

    When I first got the OPPO, I posted my impressions here as well as in the Official thread at AVS. I got various responses around break-in and related gear, but nothing about cabling.

    Secondly, this setup using the OPPO for CD playback driven by the Rotel feeds a pair of JM Labs Tantal 509s, which like most lower level JMs or Focals lack deep bass. Distinct and detailed yes, just no extension.

    A few weeks ago I had to re-arrange a few components in my rack due to the Integra 30.3 giving off lots of heat with no room above it in the 7" shelf. While re cabling everything back up, and not even remembering where this set of ICs were, I decided to put them in the main setup between Pre and Amp in place of the regularly used Synergistic Research ICs. I did not like the sound compared to the Synergistic cables. Dark and bassey and lacking a little of the detail I was used to. I removed the ICs and put the SRs back to regain my expected sound.

    Next, since I got my Hafler Pre-Amp repaired and back in place in the gym along with it's 9180 amp driving a pair of Polk Monitor 30s, I tried the cables there again between pre and amp. Way too much base output and I ended up using the tone controls, Bass all the way down and Treble all the way up to compensate.

    So after my discussions over at AK, I decided to try the cables in my OPPO Rotel setup. All I can say is WOW, they solved 2 problems. The OPPO is no longer shy on bass and neither are the JMs. I put a pair of Tara Labs Quantum CX ICs in the Hafler setup and ended up with a much mellower sound without too much bass.

    So what are the cables that did so much magic in my system? A pair of Groneberg Series 3 ICs made in Germany and purchased through Odyssey way back when I bought my Stratos Amp. By the way, they use the same cable for the internal wiring of all Odyssey amps which may contribute to the bass output they give, who knows.

    Anyway, I just decided to look at the Odyssey page and found an interesting blurb;

    ""As a matter of fact, these cables, and especially the Quattro Reference cables for their specific price/performance ratio is so good that we decided to use only Groneberg cables in our Stratos amplifiers exclusively. Klaus Bunge

    Designed and manufactured in Germany, this cable offers a very high value and performance. No need to use different cables for different signals. Patented Groneberg design (DE 43 36 230 C1) in TS Premium and Quattro Reference models solves the problem and cable can be configured for different purposes: IC, Idigital cooax, loudspeaker cable and power cord. One cable to rule them all.

    Do not be reluctant to give this cable a try, maybe there are better ones, but they are much more expensive, and cheaper competitors stay far behind from the performance Groneberg cable achieves. Several reviews in Germany and Europe have rated this cable over products from other famous brands, you'll be surprised.

    Groneberg Quattro Reference: Patented design for optimized and constant electron flow Four conductor lines Stabilizing inner core Shielding braid Excellent soundstage, detail and deep bass reproduction Harmonics coherent delicate and revealing mids & highs Excellent voice reproduction 530 pF/m Propietary jacket formulation.

    Groneberg Serie 3: Stripped version of Quattro Reference Shielding braid Open and detailed sound Good bass extension Slightly warm sound 240 pF/m Propietary jacket formulation. ""

    Anyone here have a similar experience? Speaker cable or ICs? I don't notice as much of a drastic change in speaker cables between two quality constructed similar pairs as I do between various ICs.

  3. #3
    Phila combat zone JoeE SP9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Philadelphia, PA
    Those Groneberg Quatro's have quite a high capacitance (530pF/m). I wouldn't use them for connecting a TT.
    ARC SP9 MKIII, VPI HW19, Rega RB300
    Marcof PPA1, Shure, Sumiko, Ortofon carts, Yamaha DVD-S1800
    Behringer UCA222, Emotiva XDA-2, HiFimeDIY
    Accuphase T101, Teac V-7010, Nak ZX-7. LX-5, Behringer DSP1124P
    Front: Magnepan 1.7, DBX 223SX, 2 modified Dynaco MK3's, 2, 12" DIY TL subs (Pass El-Pipe-O) 2 bridged Crown XLS-402
    Rear/HT: Emotiva UMC200, Acoustat Model 1/SPW-1, Behringer CX2310, 2 Adcom GFA-545

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Central Ohio
    My experience to this day is that solid core cables are superior to stranded cables. No I have not tried them all but as far as straned I have used Kimber, Transparent, Monster many years ago and of course lamp cord in the early days. I am sure there are others and as I remember them I will add them. My system is currently wired with Audioquest Rocket 33 or 44 speaker cables depending on the speaker and both Diamondback XLR's and IC's.

    I believed in magic once going with cables with multiple individually insulated solid core conductors.
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Monitor Audio RS6
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE SP9 View Post
    Those Groneberg Quatro's have quite a high capacitance (530pF/m). I wouldn't use them for connecting a TT.
    I have the Groneberg Serie 3

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