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  1. #1
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    AudioQuest Type 4+ Wire

    I would like to know where one can buy AudioQuest Type 4+ speaker wire at the lowest price on the market?

    I am thing of putting it between the walls and putting a face plate on the wall. Has anyone done this before? How did the sound come out?

    What would be the next step above AudioQuest Type 4+ wire? How much more would it be? Would it be a wast of money?

    I am looking at Axiom M60v2 speakers to go with my Yahama 861 Receiver and Marantz CD Changer.

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  2. #2
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    Howling Woof, Say hello to Muddy.

    I think you have made some excellent choices in your picks so far. I own Axiom speakers and I'm sure you'll be very pleased.

    However, I hate to see you throw your money away on expensive speaker wire. There is a lot of controversy on this subject. I am from the side that says there is no difference in the sound of speaker wire as long as it is heavy enough for longer lengths and lower impedences. There is a lot of profit to be made selling wire with outrageous marketing claims. Dealers are constantly low-balled on the price of speakers and receivers by customers. They try to make up for the lost profit on wire, cables and extended warranties. Save your money, you won't be able to hear any difference.

    Banana plugs are very nice especially if you connect and disconnet your wires frequently, but they are not absolutely necessary. The speaker wire or zip cord (lamp cord) that you get at Home Depot, etc. is just fine as long as you get big enough gauge size for your lengths.

    Please read this article below from an expert who used to be with McIintosh. It's sorta long but will give you all you need to know about speaker wire with absolutely no marketing BS thrown in.

    For your M60's, 18 gauge wire up to 25', 16 gauge up to 35' and 14 gauge over 35' should be more than enough. If you have to run any wire thru the walls then you are suppose to have UL-approved by your local code. I think that is CL2 or CL3 wire. Check on this.

    http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

    http://electronics.pricegrabber.com/...mt-h/st=query/

    http://www.nextag.com/banana-connector/search-html

    RR6

  3. #3
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    I, for one, am from the side that cables DO matter.

    I've had partly good experiences with Audioquest, partly because they brung silence and balance to my system, and a really wide soundstage, but on the other hand, they could tend to sound boring and flat too sometimes...

    Now I have Kimber cable speaker cables, made a big difference over the cheapo 12 gauge 'OFC' speakercables I used before that...

    Roger Russel, as great as he might have been, did a fals comparison with the cables. he actually compared a cheap cable, to an almost identical cheap cable, which of course, does not make any significant difference. Compare a cheap, bad cable to a better cable, then you'll experience difference...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  4. #4
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    ..........marketing BS thrown in..........



    ..."they brung silence and balance to my system, and a really wide soundstage"...

    ..."sound boring and flat too sometimes"...

    Just what I was refering to. Does the gravitational pull of the moon affect the soundstage also?

    When one pays like $350 for two 10' lengths of speaker cable without connectors their imagination hears many wonderful improvements. Mr. Kimber hears his cash register singing.

    RR6

  5. #5
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    ..........marketing BS thrown in..........



    ..."they brung silence and balance to my system, and a really wide soundstage"...

    ..."sound boring and flat too sometimes"...

    Just what I was refering to. Does the gravitational pull of the moon affect the soundstage also?

    When one pays like $350 for two 10' lengths of speaker cable without connectors their imagination hears many wonderful improvements. Mr. Kimber hears his cash register singing.

    RR6

    clearly, you're not open minded at all..

    I just tell what I notice, and after spending several months finding different cables, I clearly heard differences between all of them.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  6. #6
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    ..........marketing BS thrown in..........

    ..."they brung silence and balance to my system, and a really wide soundstage"...

    ..."sound boring and flat too sometimes"...

    Just what I was refering to. Does the gravitational pull of the moon affect the soundstage also?
    When one pays like $350 for two 10' lengths of speaker cable without connectors their imagination hears many wonderful improvements. Mr. Kimber hears his cash register singing.
    RR6
    LOL nice one mate

  7. #7
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    Hmmm

    [QUOTE=RoadRunner6
    When one pays like $350 for two 10' lengths of speaker cable without connectors their imagination hears many wonderful improvements. Mr. Kimber hears his cash register singing.

    RR6[/QUOTE]

    If anyone listens to their cables after they've bought them, they deserve what they get! They should always listen first.

    That said, cables can make a difference. Are the differences huge? No. Are they significant? Only the listener can decide. But the myth that all cables sound the same has been debunked time and time again.
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

  8. #8
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    The myth that some cables sound different has been debunked time and time again.

  9. #9
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    Ok, I'll play

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    The myth that some cables sound different has been debunked time and time again.
    The myth that cables sounding different has been debunked time and time again has been debunked time and time again.

    But actually I'll grant you that all cables sound the same. It's the speakers that sound different when new cables are introduced into a system.
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

  10. #10
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    You started the game. All I imply is when you make subjective unsubstantiated statements like above you hopefully back it up with some objective opinions or tests like I did. That would not include information from the speaker wire manufacturers or magazine such as TAS or hi fi choice, etc that are 100% subjective for obvious reasons.

    It would seem to me that there is never a difference under normal circumstances as stated above. I am open to change my opinion when I see some definitive and objective evidence.

    BTW, I did just drag some Home Depot wire and my neighbor's Tributaries speaker cable across his hardwood floor and I definitley could hear a difference.

    RR6


    PS "........It's the speakers that sound different......" Not including the rest of this sentence, I think you might be on to something!

  11. #11
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    One of my tests was documented here on AR

    Check the Audio Lab forum. It's not my only test but I have been absent from AR for the most part over the last year or so and haven't posted anything else. I should also add that not all of my tests showed differences (i.e not all cables tested exhibited sonic differences from each other). And further, none of them showed diffs that could be considered anything but extremely subtle. But on the Nordost Valhalla test, I achieved perfect scores. These tests were done single blind - not good enough to satisfy the scientific community but definite proof to those who participated that the cables sounded different.

    I have to say that under the circumstances, I think "all cables sound identical" is absolutely untrue. Having said that, I think it's certainly possible that the expensive cables have been "doctored" to sound different, and in fact are less neutral than standard zip cord. And I'm certainly cool with that. In my experience, many subjective audiophiles are not concerned with measured neutrality but are instead putting systems together that satisfy their own aesthetic ideals of what music should sound like in the home. That describes me. Since I was (usually) not in the recording studio when the music was recorded, I can't say that Cable X or Amp B is reproducing the music in a neutral way (nor the speakers, for that matter). Consequently, seeking perfect neutrality is to me a waste of time, as it builds off the total belief that current measurements and our interpretation thereof dictate the ultimate fidelity of the final product. And that's not a leap of faith I'm prepared to make. The problem with cables in particular is that in order to reliably hear any differences that might be present, one must concentrate on certain sonic cues to the point of ignorning the music itself. That defeats the purpose of having a system at all!

    So I don't use the words "neutral" or "transparent" or even "high fidelity" when I describe my system, because those words have little meaning to me. Instead I say that my system sounds more like live music than any system I've heard that I could afford.

    LOL - you're Home Depot wire "experiment" reminds me of when I was asked if I could hear directionality in cables. I said "absolutely". When the cables arrows were pointing towards the speakers, I put my ear close to them and heard nice clear sound. When they were pointing the other direction, I put my ear close to the CD player and the sound changed dramatically.
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

  12. #12
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    I must confess that our Home Depot zip cord drag experiment was not blind or double blind! However he did first hold the HD wire in his left hand and then on the next test the HD wire in his right hand. Then he tested them again dragging them the other direction. Same results. Only when he dragged them across the room diagonally did we have trouble distinguishing between the two. Go figure?

    I have enjoyed our chat. We might disagree but we both have a good sense of humor!

    RR6

  13. #13
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    Disagreement is cool with me

    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    I must confess that our Home Depot zip cord drag experiment was not blind or double blind! However he did first hold the HD wire in his left hand and then on the next test the HD wire in his right hand. Then he tested them again dragging them the other direction. Same results. Only when he dragged them across the room diagonally did we have trouble distinguishing between the two. Go figure?

    I have enjoyed our chat. We might disagree but we both have a good sense of humor!

    RR6
    You said you've tested and you've come to a different conclusion than I. All I would ask of anyone (if I were asking) is that they test for themselves. Otherwise it's all theory and beliefs.

    I would be willing to bet we both agree that music is what's most important. Then again, we'd probably disagree on what genre. And by the way, did you measure the drag coefficient on those cable tests? (snicker) - I couldn't resist!
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

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