Audioquest IC improvement

[Hairsonfire]

I am rolling on the floor laughing my butt off! . . . Warm? Wide? Clean? Deep? I am not saying you guys are morons. However, I have heard morons, and you guys are what they sound like. The emperor is naked! That's right, not a stitch of clothes - HA HA HA HA HA HA HA . . . he he he . . . sniff, choke. But, I digress. Now, where is that green marker for my CD's . . .

[hermanv]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

There are these tweaks: green markers, CD disk demagnitizers, little wooden blocks with leather straps, special wrapping stuff you can wrap around your cables and many, many others. The thing about these products is that hundreds of manufacturers did not spring up overnight to cash in on the river of snake oil.

But there seem to be an awful lot of cable manufacturers, what gives? The audiophile community did not jump up en mass to buy green markers or little round disk stabilizing paper labels or disk de-ionizing spray and a host of other tweaks. But they do buy cables. Selective madness?

With a 3 grand amplifier, 7 grand speakers, 2 grand CD player and hundreds of dollars in cables, your system should be easily capable of displaying tiny details. That why most audiophiles spend the big money, because expensive products produce more information or detail if you will.

After all, my local K-Mart has a complete 5 speaker sound system for $175 that actually plays CDs. Really it works, why spend more? Why, because it sounds awful.

Do you think K-Mart bought the special low priced awful transistors and awful resistors and awful capacitors or is there some small posibility that the purity or kind of materials used somehow (wait that's mighty close to magic) affect the sound quality? Its not the design, you only pay for that once, there's no good reason to cut that corner. It is the materials used. Why is it that hard to believe that the material used inside a capacitor is important but the material used outside not only isn't important but you and others claim it can't possibly be important, ever. The only important stuff resides inside the box not outside the box, that stuff inside the box must be somehow magical.

There is nothing inside the box but metals and plastics and some molten sand or glass bottles full of vacuum (certainly the arangement of the metals and plastics is highly specialized but in the end it's only common material actually found on Earth). The semiconductor houses do not sell transistors in good sound/bad sound models the purity and quality of semiconductor material is impressivly good for all models. So what makes an amplifier sound better if it costs thousands, you must believe it does, only a true moron would spend $13,000 to replace that $175 K-Mart box if he was convinced it sounded the same.

So; stuff inside the box: important because it affects the sound quality, stuff outside the box is not only un-important but can not possibly ever be important - and this is rational thinking? No this is just someone who probably has no idea what goes on inside the box and can therefore believe he should listen to others, but this same person thinks he understands cables and can therefore make declarations of absolutes (About inside the box? Hint, there are just electrons flowing through stuff, some of it conducts, kind of like a cable conductor and some of it insulates, kind of like a cable jacket).

(I'm still collecting that ABX data, there is progress a little more patience)

[Pat]

I am rolling on the floor laughing my butt off! . . . Warm? Wide? Clean? Deep? I am not saying you guys are morons. However, I have heard morons, and you guys are what they sound like. The emperor is naked! That's right, not a stitch of clothes - HA HA HA HA HA HA HA . . . he he he . . . sniff, choke. But, I digress. Now, where is that green marker for my CD's . . .

Seems to me the guys are trying to describe what changes they hear when a cable is swapped out for another.......what's the big deal? Just because you have not heard a difference does not mean it does not happen.

[nightflier]

Like I said, their build quality in superb and they look very audiophile - and - I could afford them. It's like this, I have some reasonably expensive equipment (for me). The first rule of this crazy affliction we call audiophilia is foremost - "do no harm" There are plenty of folks like you that profess to hear differences in cables - whatever . . My point is that while I don't believe there are perceivable differrences, the expensive wire does not hurt the signal either.. While I am not convinced that anyone can hear differences in cabling and interconnects, that doesn't mean I don't want to maintain a certain integrity within my system. Which means, I am not going to connect two amps that cost three grand each to a pair of seven grand speakers and a two grand cd player with some radioshack wire. There may be, as far as I am concerned, no difference in the performance of the mega-buck cables and the radioshack stuff, but hey, I still have to look at it, don't I? It's a "Zen" thing. I feel so fortunate to have decent hearing at all, and be able to have the life affirming and soul-cleansing wonder of musical events recreated in my listening room - That is more than enough for me and, in my opinion, what this stuff is really all about.

So I guess that's a no on swapping cables with me? If you want I can spray-paint them in dayglo colors so they look "audiophile," if you want...

[Pat]

Nightflier,
Have you tried the following or many others:
Outlaw cables
Better cables
Blue Jean cables
River cables
Signal cables
Cobalt cables
Vampire Wire cables
Heartland cables
Guerrilla cables

[nightflier]

Nightflier,
Have you tried the following or many others:
Outlaw cables
Better cables
Blue Jean cables
River cables
Signal cables
Cobalt cables
Vampire Wire cables
Heartland cables
Guerrilla cables

I have tried:
Outlaw (SACD two 6-cable sets being used with my SACD/ICBM)
Blue Jeans (Belden/Canare)
Zu (don't have anymore)
Heartland (have the Belden/Canare combo)
Dayton Audio (from Parts Express)
Acoustic Research (Component Cables / their more expensive stuff)
Radio Shack cables (don't have any more)
Monster (mostly their more expensive stuff)

But most of this stuff is used in the TV room. For my 2-channel system, I have mostly AQ stuff and I am borrowing the Analisys plays cables as comparison. Perhaps I should bring some of the Outlaw, Dayton, and Heartland cables into the comparison, too, but that would mean unplugging the family from the Matrix and that would really be unpopular.

Of the mom & pop companies, I suppose I like Belden/Canare Heartlands the best (BlueJeans uses the same stuff, I think). They seem to be very well built (better than the cheap stuff from Dayton, AR, RS, And Monster, for sure), the service from Dan is excellent, and last time I compared them, they didn't seem to add anything to the music; they were neutral. I haven't tried any of their Eichmann/Belden cables, but I am curious. Maybe that should be my first comparison.

[Hairsonfire]

So I guess that's a no on swapping cables with me? If you want I can spray-paint them in dayglo colors so they look "audiophile," if you want...

No hard feelings. I was listening to Renee Flemming this morning . . . God I love this stuff!

[musicoverall]

I am rolling on the floor laughing my butt off! . . . Warm? Wide? Clean? Deep? I am not saying you guys are morons. However, I have heard morons, and you guys are what they sound like. The emperor is naked! That's right, not a stitch of clothes - HA HA HA HA HA HA HA . . . he he he . . . sniff, choke. But, I digress. Now, where is that green marker for my CD's . . .

How is it that someone CAN hear differences in cables and they are a "moron" and "full of crap" and someone that CAN'T is considered the opposite? I always thought the state of being a moron meant an absence of some capability!

[hermanv]

I have tried:
Outlaw (SACD two 6-cable sets being used with my SACD/ICBM)
Blue Jeans (Belden/Canare)
Zu (don't have anymore)
Heartland (have the Belden/Canare combo)
Dayton Audio (from Parts Express)
Acoustic Research (Component Cables / their more expensive stuff)
Radio Shack cables (don't have any more)
Monster (mostly their more expensive stuff)

I used to own Monster M-1000 interconnects, they were supposedly highly regarded, I replaced them with The Homegrown Silver Lace. The Homegrown cables were much cleaner had less grain and hash and seemed to meet your request for something that has a little more presence (note: the Homegrowns cleaned up bass and midbass without emphasizing it). I replaced the Homegrown with some WireWorld stuff (I won't mention model or cost for fear of being regarded as nuts). In terms of value per dollar, Kimber seems reliable, I'm told Cardas is, but haven't heard their stuff.

Mostly I used to agree with your original post that there was a strong correlation between price and sound quality. There is a change though, due to the kind of house that sells only labor i.e. they don't make their own exotic materials they buy them and assemble cables.

Although their stuff doesn't seem to compete with the true exotics (read truly high priced) at the mid point in pricing they offer very good sound at a reasonable price. If you want subjectively less bass, I would try the pure silver from any of these houses.

http://www.marc.stager.com/silver/
http://www.bettercables.com/bltrtauinstp.html
http://www.violins.on.ca/cables/lsr14.html
http://www.puresilversound.com/
http://www.homegrownaudio.com/cable_kits.htm (a kit)

There are more of course. Good luck

[Hairsonfire]

How is it that someone CAN hear differences in cables and they are a "moron" and "full of crap" and someone that CAN'T is considered the opposite? I always thought the state of being a moron meant an absence of some capability!

I really do come off as a jerk some times . . . I am sorry. In my humble opinion, while there may be measureable differences in inductance, resistance and capacitance in cables, I don't believe anyone can distinguish between any two cables. And, if you really took the time to do a double blind test - you would be convinced too. Go to Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity and do a search. One of their staff did a painstakingly detailed two day event and their results were, at best, inconclusive. But, I need to get off my soapbox. The best approach, I have found, to exquisite sound and listening nirvana is to ensure your system is optimized through speaker placement and acoustic treatment when necessary. Yeah, I have some nice equipment and it's worth it to me. However, I would still be listening to music and enjoying it with less expensive equipment. Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, Cassandra Wilson, Renee Flemming, and so many others - GO TEAM!!!

[E-Stat]

In my humble opinion, while there may be measureable differences in inductance, resistance and capacitance in cables, I don't believe anyone can distinguish between any two cables.

Even capacitance is NOT a constant. Changing speaker caps from merely a different type of capacitor (electrolytic vs. film) for the same value can affect the sound.

Because Home Theatre compared X number of cables and were unable to tell any differences among them only tells you about those chosen. Nothing more. I seriously doubt they had any real high resolution cables in the mix like Nordost Valhalla, Harmonic Technology, etc.

rw

[Hairsonfire]

Even capacitance is NOT a constant. Changing speaker caps from merely a different type of capacitor (electrolytic vs. film) for the same value can affect the sound.

Because Home Theatre compared X number of cables and were unable to tell any differences among them only tells you about those chosen. Nothing more. I seriously doubt they had any real high resolution cables in the mix like Nordost Valhalla, Harmonic Technology, etc.

rw

Valhalla supplied the cable!

Here's the link smarty pants!

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2004.html

[hermanv]

Well, my wife and I hear a difference and in the end we are the only ones that matter for our system at least .

As an electronic engineer I was STRONGLY biased against such a thing being possible . And I confirmed easily that there was no difference early on in my exposure to the hobby.

Then I upgraded my system and I upgraded my system and... Suddenly where before there was no difference, now there is a difference . Did I get better at hearing the change, did the upgrade make the difference audible? It doesn't matter.

Do I think "good" cables are reasonably priced. No. I try hard to find cables that are affordable because spending more for a cable than a decent amplifier or pre-amp just seems wrong. The problem is that my personal audio demon is fatigue and I find that the more expensive cables are less fatiguing (sometimes it takes weeks to notice).

Once you've heard your own sytem make truly beautiful, emotionally moving (I mean goosebumps) music, its very hard to go back. If that means paying hundreds for cables, for me that's an easy choice, it just takes time to save up enough money is all.

[E-Stat]

Valhalla supplied the cable!

First of all, Valhalla is not a company. Nordost is the company and Valhalla is a product. That test was anything but scientifically conducted. Read the details.

However, we also cannot conclude that there are no differences... The test was a grand and noble experiment at best and a bust at worst. Make of it what you will.

I gather you have never heard Valhalla in a great system yourself. Maybe sometime you'll get a chance. To hear it long term using familiar gear and music.

rw

[musicoverall]

And, if you really took the time to do a double blind test - you would be convinced too. !

Actually, my participation in what effectively amounted to a double blind test convinced me that there ARE sonic differences among various cables. Since doing so, I've become aware of several amateur DBT's between cables that showed statistically significant differences. One of the problems with the test in your link is the fact that the gear was totally unfamiliar to most if not all the participants. That's not the way to do it. All it does is create nice rhetoric for the value of DBT as well as bogus evidence against cable sonics.

That said, I would certainly agree that speaker placement and acoustic room treatment is a better way to achieve the best your stereo has to offer. However, when all of that has been taken care of, experimentation with cables is one possible way to further upgrade the sound. It's a passionate subject, to be sure, with a fair amount of vitriol on both sides of the slate.