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  1. #1
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    $1,000,000 cable challenge

    After rave reviews in several publications and online magazines of the $7250 cables made by Pear, The James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) is offering a cool $1M to anyone who can prove the $7250 cables are better than any other cables such as the $80 Monster Cable.

    See story:
    http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4

    As yet, No one has stepped up to accept the challenge.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
    Suspended Smokey's Avatar
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    I personally donít think that cable debate will ever go away. Even if one goes back to early days of cable debate Internet via rec.audio.high-end, one still see the same questions, debates and arguments that is going on today.

    Which mean nobody seem to make any headway in this debate.....and you know why?Because what we are debating is not based on facts or figures, but rather on preferences of what one has heard. And the preferences and opinions are as diverse as the individual that said it.

    It is like religion. One has to have faith first, because it canít be proven right or wrong.

    Sorry for ranting

  3. #3
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squeegy200
    After rave reviews in several publications and online magazines of the $7250 cables made by Pear, The James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) is offering a cool $1M to anyone who can prove the $7250 cables are better than any other cables such as the $80 Monster Cable.

    See story:
    http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4

    As yet, No one has stepped up to accept the challenge.

    What do you think?
    How about they pay me 1 Million dollars and I'll say whatever they want me to about any cable. lol.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular jim goulding's Avatar
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    This whole cable thing is insulting to me. Mapleshade makes some novel cables that honor the music and they are very reasonable in today' cable world. What's novel about them is that they use air as the dialectic. That's right. There is a little tube so you can keep them blown up. And when your friends come over you can marvel them . . "Damn, man, what the f*** are you doing?".
    designer/manufacturer of custom made time and phase correcting real wool surrounds

  5. #5
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    How about $27 ???

    Quote Originally Posted by squeegy200
    After rave reviews in several publications and online magazines of the $7250 cables made by Pear, The James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) is offering a cool $1M to anyone who can prove the $7250 cables are better than any other cables such as the $80 Monster Cable.

    See story:
    http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4

    As yet, No one has stepped up to accept the challenge.

    What do you think?
    These from Blue Jeans cable: Belden 1694A with Canare RCAP connectors. 3' pair for $26.75. You won't hear the difference in a DBT.

  6. #6
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    These from Blue Jeans cable: Belden 1694A with Canare RCAP connectors. 3' pair for $26.75. You won't hear the difference in a DBT.
    Aren't those ICs? They are referring to speaker cables in this case. Then again, you could spend $20k on Nordost Odins.

    rw

  7. #7
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Opps! You're right

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Aren't those ICs? They are referring to speaker cables in this case. Then again, you could spend $20k on Nordost Odins.

    rw
    Yep, my mistake: this is about speaker cable. And I suspect that speaker cable can make a bigger difference than interconnect. However I haven't heard a lot of difference here either.

    Presently I use 4-wire Monster, (actually probably Canare), 14 gauge wire to bi-wire my Maggies. Cost me about $15 for the wire -- only 3 feet per side, though ...
    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=100-656
    ... plus the connectors, 6 pairs, about $25 ...
    http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...umber=091-1260

    I can hear no difference from $250 Nordost Flatline Gold MkII, (single-wire), I was using before. Nor the 10 ga. low-oxygen wire I have also used.

    I'm not saying speaker cable or interconnects can't make a difference, only that in the typicaly entry to midrange system they won't make very much difference. The guy with the $400 CD payer is a fool to spend $100+ on pair of ICs.

  8. #8
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Yep, my mistake: this is about speaker cable. And I suspect that speaker cable can make a bigger difference than interconnect.
    I believe such questions, like all matters cable, are highly system dependent. With my electrostats, speaker cable choice is critical. Low inductance and low capacitance are both necessary to prevent an overly bright sound and to tame the already capacitive load to the amplifier. With the double Advents, it is less critical and I use separate runs of generic Philips 14 gauge wire.

    FWIW, I just ordered a three foot pair of the Blue Jeans LC-1 ICs to test with the vintage system. Also bought a one foot run of1694 cable for the transport-to-DAC SP/DIF connection. It will be interesting to compare them with my reference JPS Labs ultraconductors and generic Monster, respectively. I will readily admit that the 0.5 meter run from the CDP to the attenuators in the main system is relatively cable insensitive. Although I currently use JPS Labs cable there as well, I have tried some cheaper stuff and don't find much difference. Originally, I purchased them for a different application and later moved them to that position.

    rw

  9. #9
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    I believe such questions, like all matters cable, are highly system dependent. With my electrostats, speaker cable choice is critical. Low inductance and low capacitance are both necessary to prevent an overly bright sound and to tame the already capacitive load to the amplifier. With the double Advents, it is less critical and I use separate runs of generic Philips 14 gauge wire.

    FWIW, I just ordered a three foot pair of the Blue Jeans LC-1 ICs to test with the vintage system. Also bought a one foot run of1694 cable for the transport-to-DAC SP/DIF connection. It will be interesting to compare them with my reference JPS Labs ultraconductors and generic Monster, respectively. I will readily admit that the 0.5 meter run from the CDP to the attenuators in the main system is relatively cable insensitive. Although I currently use JPS Labs cable there as well, I have tried some cheaper stuff and don't find much difference. Originally, I purchased them for a different application and later moved them to that position.

    rw
    Keep us posted on your results. I agree, highly system dependent. That's exactly why there is so much debate.

  10. #10
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    Geez, I thought they were talking about HDMI cables. I wouldn't bet the farm on huge differences in HDMI since the signal is all digital. I used a Transparent and Zu coaxial digital cable between DAC and transport and couldn't tell a difference. The Transparent was even quite longer. I could easily tell sonic differences in my systems between different brands of IC's and speaker connects. A friend who is an EE sent me a pair of IC's he built to evaluate. This was a blast and comparing to various other cables I had around showed a lot of differences. The system dependency is very very true. His cables were pure silver and I forget what the stranding and structure was. Anyway, these cables sounded alright with my Conrad Johnson but I preferred my Siltech. However, putting the homemade cables between my Krell cdp and amp, I was amazed, they were the best I had ever heard there. I preferred the sound of the homemade cables even to my Transparent XLR's. It was also fun to use each pair between cdp and my Musical Fidelity X-can headphone amp. What was noticeable besides just sound was the width and positioning of the soundstage through the headphones.

    Air is a very good insulator for cables. This is something my friend mentioned. It was difficult to figure out a way to make that work though.

  11. #11
    Forum Regular jim goulding's Avatar
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    I used to use a Canare digital cable between my transport and DAC for a long ass time but I replaced it with some sexier stuff but, you know what, over the weekend I'm gonna swap it out with the Canare and have a listen. Belden cable is the standard in the recording business. It does have a lotta cred.
    designer/manufacturer of custom made time and phase correcting real wool surrounds

  12. #12
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    What I think

    Quote Originally Posted by squeegy200
    After rave reviews in several publications and online magazines of the $7250 cables made by Pear, The James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) is offering a cool $1M to anyone who can prove the $7250 cables are better than any other cables such as the $80 Monster Cable.

    See story:
    http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4

    As yet, No one has stepped up to accept the challenge.

    What do you think?
    I think that if someone offers you a million dollars if you can prove something, they're going to set up the test in such a way to make sure you can't prove it. It's hard to beat someone at their own game and I think Randi is about as trustworthy as a rattlesnake in your pocket.
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

  13. #13
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicoverall
    I think that if someone offers you a million dollars if you can prove something, they're going to set up the test in such a way to make sure you can't prove it. It's hard to beat someone at their own game and I think Randi is about as trustworthy as a rattlesnake in your pocket.
    Hisssssss hisssssss. lol.

  14. #14
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Yes, could be true

    Quote Originally Posted by musicoverall
    I think that if someone offers you a million dollars if you can prove something, they're going to set up the test in such a way to make sure you can't prove it. It's hard to beat someone at their own game and I think Randi is about as trustworthy as a rattlesnake in your pocket.
    But Randi's rigging of the terms, conditions or outcome is something that could be demonstrated. I'd like to see a few people step up and take the challenge instead of just poo-hooing the man without analysis or evidence.

    It won't be me though, because even though I've thought I heard cable differences on various occassions, the differences were minute and could well have been my imagination.

  15. #15
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    But Randi's rigging of the terms, conditions or outcome is something that could be demonstrated. I'd like to see a few people step up and take the challenge instead of just poo-hooing the man without analysis or evidence.

    It won't be me though, because even though I've thought I heard cable differences on various occassions, the differences were minute and could well have been my imagination.
    No one should make a determination without analysis or evidence. Read the rules and regs of the test and then ye, too, shall "poo-hoo". It's a no-win situation - which makes sense because who wants to get shown up AND be forced to pay a million dollars? Not Randi. Not me, either!

    At any rate, I've analyzed the deal and I've spoken to a few people that have had dealings with Randi. Waste of time dealing with him, IMHO.
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

  16. #16
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    Lol!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    Hisssssss hisssssss. lol.
    Well, I've got to pick on someone! George W is just too popular a target!
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

  17. #17
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I'd like to see a few people step up and take the challenge instead of just poo-hooing the man without analysis or evidence.
    Poster "Wellfed" over at AA did just that. Twice. The "facilitator" denied his offers. John Atkinson of Stereophile has caught The Amazing Randi in lies and asked for him to retract them on his site. He refused. Says plenty to me.

    rw

  18. #18
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    More details?

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Poster "Wellfed" over at AA did just that. Twice. The "facilitator" denied his offers. John Atkinson of Stereophile has caught The Amazing Randi in lies and asked for him to retract them on his site. He refused. Says plenty to me.

    rw
    Has Wellfed detailed his findings on AA or anywhere?

    I have let doubt, though, that Randi isn't going to make it easy.

  19. #19
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Has Wellfed detailed his findings on AA or anywhere?
    At length. Back in 2005 when this was actually news.

    rw

  20. #20
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    I check it out

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    At length. Back in 2005 when this was actually news.

    rw
    Assuming it's stil around.

    Of course, Wellfed is an arch-subjectivist and tweak lover. I guess if you can hear the difference that the Intelligent Chip or Brilliant Pebbles or little clocks or green felt markers make, you're bound to hear the differences between cables.

  21. #21
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Ah, yes

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    At length. Back in 2005 when this was actually news.

    rw
    I recall those going on now that you remind me. You must recall that it wasn't about cables but the GSIC, a.k.a. "intelligent chip".

    A reminder to folks that that was a small IC chip enclose in a small plastic case and without a power supply that, when placed on top of as CDP for 20 seconds or so, supposedly permanently improves the sound of the CD being played. Interestingly, the chip was somehow charged to fix only so may CD, as I recall ten, for about $20; you could buy a thirty disc chip for about $30, (bargain!).

    It didn't follow all the goings on in detail because I wasn't that interested -- let's say I was skeptical (understatement) of the merits of the GSIC. It seems Wellfed when quite far along the way to an actual test with Randi's group, but he backed out because, as it seems to me, they wouldn't accept his frivolous test condition stipulations. (He then accused them of lying, deceit, etc.) I for one was less than astonished that the thing didn't go down, but I don't necessarily blame Randi for that.

    I've never met Wellfed face-to-face; he might be an intelligent, amiable, and sincere person, however going by his AA posts pertaining to various tweaks, he is self-deceiving fool.
    Last edited by Feanor; 10-12-2007 at 06:16 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I recall those going on now that you remind me. You must recall that it wasn't about cables but the GSIC, a.k.a. "intelligent chip".

    It didn't follow all the goings on in detail because I wasn't that interested -- let's say I was skeptical (understatement) of the merits of the GSIC. It seems Wellfed when quite far along the way to an actual test with Randi's group, but he backed out because, as it seems to me, they wouldn't accept his frivolous test condition stipulations. (He then accused them of lying, deceit, etc.) I for one was less than astonished that the thing didn't go down, but I don't necessarily blame Randi for that.

    I've never met Wellfed face-to-face; he might be an intelligent, amiable, and sincere person, however going by his AA posts pertaining to various tweaks, he is self-deceiving fool.
    You might want to go to the source to update your facts on the Wellfed/Randi fiasco. You seem to have them bass-ackwards at the moment. I won't comment on the tweaks or the concept of self-deceiving foolishness but so far as I've seen, only those with an unshakable-by-faith objectivists agenda could miss the backpedaling and backsliding the JREF did back in 2005. Their may be missing facts (after all, only the two parties involved know the full story) but there has been a lot of it posted on AA and on the JREF site. It does help to prove the old saying that "It's hard to beat someone at their own game".

    But do look into the facts if you're truly interested. They were quite eye-opening for me. I thought Randi was eccentric but sincere and honest until I was shown otherwise.
    Form is out. Content makes its own form.
    -Sam Rivers

    The format doesn't matter. The music is all that matters.
    - Musicoverall

  23. #23
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Yeah, and ...

    Quote Originally Posted by musicoverall
    You might want to go to the source to update your facts on the Wellfed/Randi fiasco. You seem to have them bass-ackwards at the moment. I won't comment on the tweaks or the concept of self-deceiving foolishness but so far as I've seen, only those with an unshakable-by-faith objectivists agenda could miss the backpedaling and backsliding the JREF did back in 2005. Their may be missing facts (after all, only the two parties involved know the full story) but there has been a lot of it posted on AA and on the JREF site. It does help to prove the old saying that "It's hard to beat someone at their own game".

    But do look into the facts if you're truly interested. They were quite eye-opening for me. I thought Randi was eccentric but sincere and honest until I was shown otherwise.
    I went back a few days ago and reread most of boop on AA. I posted my conclusion above. I didn't say JREF is altogether blameless in this, only that Wellfed asserted unreasonable and/or frivolous testing conditions and provided JREF as least an "out" which they chose to use. OK, so do you suppose they were afraid they'd actually have to pay the $1M as a result any reasonable test? Oh, please!

  24. #24
    Suspended PeruvianSkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzie
    who ni their right mind would spend that much on a pair of cables? I felt guilty for spending $300 on these

    http://discharges.org/h/0608/
    Wow, this is one sneaky spammer!

  25. #25
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    Bummer, just when you think there might be another female around.

    Bad! Suzie

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