Just to be fair

[Resident Loser]

...move over so I can talk to the guy next to you...

FYI major-domo...Observation(actual experience) IS empirical evidence...

jimHJJ(...and THIS is a moderator!!!...)

[Quagmire]

Resident Loser,

Let me share a little story with you. A college student is sitting in a philosophy class on the first day of school. The professor introduces himself and begins to lay out some of what will be discussed in his class throughout the course of the semester. As part of his introductory speach he make the statement, "...there are no absolutes". From the back of the room, a hand is raised. The professor, looking a little bit bothered that someone had nerve to interrupt his speach reluctantly acknowledges the student. "Yes, what is it?" he says. The student stands up and asks, "I just wanted to know, sir... did you mean that last statement, absolutely?".

How can the professor answer? If he answers Yes to defend his position then he has just provided evidence to contradict the statement that he has made. But If he answers No, then he has just disavowed the very point he was trying to make and abandoned his position. His premise is an untenable position.

I think this Objectivist/Subjectivist thing is kind of like the professor and the student: It's a conundrum. From the Objectivist point of view, the Subjectivist places himself in an undefendable position... "There are no absolutes, everything is relative and subjective." However, it would be a huge mistake for the student to conclude that because the professor's position wasn't tenable, this proved that the polar opposite was true --- that EVERYTHING is absolute. Where I think both of these groups make their biggest mistake is to take the most extreme position within their philosophy. The Objectivist can defend the statement "There ARE absolutes", but he cannot defend the statement "EVERYTHING is absolute. Likewise, the Subjectivist can't defend the statement "There are NO absolutes" but he can defend the statement that "SOME THINGS are not absolute".

As this story relates to the audio enthusiasts who post here, IMHO the more polarized their positions are within their philosophy, the more untenable their arguments become. It's no wonder that there always exists this impasse between the two groups: because as the positions become more extreme they also become less credible. Unfortunately, due to human nature they become less civil too.

Just some food for thought.

Q

[kexodusc]

As this story relates to the audio enthusiasts who post here, IMHO the more polarized their positions are within their philosophy, the more untenable their arguments become. It's no wonder that there always exists this impasse between the two groups: because as the positions become more extreme they also become less credible. Unfortunately, due to human nature they become less civil too.

Just some food for thought.

Q

Great post, Q!!!

Here's an "absolute truth":
These forums use to provide stimulating conversation about equipment and sound, heavily involving both ends of the objective/subjective spectrum, and the SILENT MAJORITY (myself included) who just haven't made up their minds one way or another and may never do so!!!

Threads here use to employ two trains of thought, and years of unique experiences and knowledge to discuss AUDIO EQUIPMENT. Now they provide pages of *****ing about cyber-principles and philosophical warfare.

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz....BORING!!!

c'mon guys, couldn't we all just get along?

[E-Stat]

Great post, Q!!!

Amen.

c'mon guys, couldn't we all just get along?

Those who left apparently thought otherwise.

rw

[Resident Loser]

...All I said is "Everybody knows this is nowhere"...as it pertains to the issues that have been ripe topics for years...

So from that you determine I am in need of some allegorical, cornball lecture...

I couldn't be more of a centrist, it's the outside catalysts that provoke me to be otherwise...the misleading half-truths, factoids and outright bull masquerading as something otherwise brought me to where I am today...It's the all the little folks with their hands on their ears, loudly going "la-la-la I can't hear you" who have created this "ghetto" in order to isolate their little "mutual admiration society" from the Big, Bad spectre of doubt, those are the one's who need your stories...

jimHJJ(...garbanzo beans...)

[theaudiohobby]

The professor introduces himself and begins to lay out some of what will be discussed in his class throughout the course of the semester. As part of his introductory speach he make the statement, "...there are no absolutes". From the back of the room, a hand is raised. The professor, looking a little bit bothered that someone had nerve to interrupt his speach reluctantly acknowledges the student. "Yes, what is it?" he says. The student stands up and asks, "I just wanted to know, sir... did you mean that last statement, absolutely?".

A great allegory... one for keeps..