Jon Risch distortion test signal

[E-Stat]

...has come up with what is apparently a new approach to testing distortion in audio components, and he seems to suggest that he's submitted a paper about it to the AES.

Personalities aside, I anxiously await the time for when there are meaningful, readily available metrics available that fully quantify the performance of audio components.

rw

[Swerd]

I anxiously await the time for when there are meaningful, readily available metrics available that fully quantify the performance of audio components.

I do not consider myself an advanced audio geek nor do I fancy myself an audio philosopher, whatever those are. However, I am a scientist. I make a living by being a scientist. The entire profession is based on both objectivity and skepticism. It weeds out irreproducible and unverifiable results.

I wish I had lab results to share about any of these, but I don't work on any of these subjects professionally:

• transmission properties of audio frequency low voltage AC signals through cables
• possible differences in audibility that stem from different cable designs
• neurophysiology of the perception and processing of sound by the ears and audio cortex

In a nutshell, that is the problem with the great cable debates on this forum. Probably only very few scientists (at best) work on these subjects. More likely, no one works on the first two. It's not exactly cutting edge science. The last time this was of major interest was when the Bell Labs studied the losses in telephone voice signals due to very long wire lines. That was more than 50 years ago. If anyone knows something more recent, please tell us. Bell's solution to the problem was to adopt microwave frequency carrier waves as a long distance transmission method instead of copper wire. The audio frequencies of the human voice are only the midrange of the 20-20 kHz audio spectrum and the very long length of wires involved in telephone transmission don't compare at all to the short lengths we use for home audio. So it could be said that very little is known on this subject. Research on the third subject is somewhat more active today, but it focuses on hearing speech and processing language and treating various forms of hearing and speech disorders.


Research science is driven by the availability of money. There is no government agency or private industry that thinks that these fields are major unmet needs worth the expenditure of research funds.


So to the anxious E-stat, I would say be patient. It may be a very long time before that happens.

[E-Stat]

So to the anxious E-stat, I would say be patient. It may be a very long time before that happens.

I can be patient for what some believe has already come to pass.

rw

[Swerd]

…for what some believe has already come to pass.

There are frequent anecdotal reports of listeners who claim to hear differences in sounds of audio playback systems due to different cables in the system. The standard measurements of cable electrical properties, accepted by the electronics industry at large, fail to explain these perceived differences.

If you have new information to add to this, as your comment suggests, we are all eager to hear it.

[E-Stat]

There are frequent anecdotal reports of listeners who claim to hear differences in sounds of audio playback systems due to different cables in the system. The standard measurements of cable electrical properties, accepted by the electronics industry at large, fail to explain these perceived differences.

If you have new information to add to this, as your comment suggests, we are all eager to hear it.

I am unaware of any empirical evidence to support either position for when the question is not limited to basic consumer level equipment.

rw

[ToddB]

Research science is driven by the availability of money. There is no government agency or private industry that thinks that these fields are major unmet needs worth the expenditure of research funds.

One exception to this might be the very audiophile companies who are making the products. Given that it would not be in their competitive best interests in the marketplace to release any data they had found to be useful, I could see how we might not hear anything about it.

[jneutron]

One exception to this might be the very audiophile companies who are making the products. Given that it would not be in their competitive best interests in the marketplace to release any data they had found to be useful, I could see how we might not hear anything about it.

That is a double edged sword..

They will not publish anything useful unless they can patent it to protect IP..and they will not publish results which counter their claims..

I know a couple of engineers who have submitted papers years ago countering information presented by members affiliated with the AES for many years.

And people wonder why I don't publish my test results and analysis which proves Hawksford's skin article wrong...go figure..I certainly wouldn't waste my time trying to submit it, as H is up there in AES.....

Cheers, John

[ToddB]

That is a double edged sword..

They will not publish anything useful unless they can patent it to protect IP

Agreed.

..and they will not publish results which counter their claims..

Are you suggesting that marketing at some companies takes precedence over engineering?

LOL...

[ToddB]

Personalities aside, I anxiously await the time for when there are meaningful, readily available metrics available that fully quantify the performance of audio components.

I fully agree. It will make things so much easier.