hermanv - regarding: "Speaker cable blind listening tests"

[musicoverall]

I'm reasonably sure that both parties to the argument want to understand what is happening.

As I've said before, the debate as to whether cables can sound different from another no longer interests me, as it's been resolved. The debate as to WHY cables can sound different IS of interest to me. On the one hand, psychology and mass delusion are invalid, and on the other hand "because measurements don't tell all there is to know about cable sonics" is incomplete. I'd like to know the reasons different cables cause the sound of an audio system to change.

I feel compelled to also state that I know of absolutely no one... zero, nada zilch, NO ONE... that feels obligated to hear an improvement after spending a lot of money on cables. If there are people that spend money on something without a fairly stringent audition, they probably deserve what they get... or don't get. The people I know and all the tales I've heard or read show that those hearing the differences hear 'em first and then buy.

[Feanor]

As I've said before, the debate as to whether cables can sound different from another no longer interests me, as it's been resolved. The debate as to WHY cables can sound different IS of interest to me. On the one hand, psychology and mass delusion are invalid, and on the other hand "because measurements don't tell all there is to know about cable sonics" is incomplete. I'd like to know the reasons different cables cause the sound of an audio system to change.

I feel compelled to also state that I know of absolutely no one... zero, nada zilch, NO ONE... that feels obligated to hear an improvement after spending a lot of money on cables. If there are people that spend money on something without a fairly stringent audition, they probably deserve what they get... or don't get. The people I know and all the tales I've heard or read show that those hearing the differences hear 'em first and then buy.

A few personal observation from The Elf ...

• Cables do measure differently therefore there is objective reason to believe that they might sound different.
• Almost every cable maker has some kind of theory of why their cables are better. Which of the totally different technologies and explanations are right?
• The placebo effect is scientifically accepted. No doubt it can apply before or after you spend your money.

[musicoverall]

A few personal observation from The Elf ...

• Cables do measure differently therefore there is objective reason to believe that they might sound different.
• Almost every cable maker has some kind of theory of why their cables are better. Which of the totally different technologies and explanations are right?
• The placebo effect is scientifically accepted. No doubt it can apply before or after you spend your money.

1) Yes, but so far all I've heard is that those measurement difference are below the threshold of audibility... with a few exceptions such as length, high capacitance in phono cables and the like.
2) I'd have to speculate but my guess is zero; hence, the problem.
3) Indeed. But if one does a proper audition, it is unlikely to occur after the sale. I have no doubt placebo takes over after a sale if the buyer doesn't do their due diligence in the beginning. In those cases, placebo is hardly their biggest problem!

The last time I checked in with you, you were running what is certainly one of the nicest theoretical (by my experience) non-stratospherically priced audio systems around. In fact, I recently recommended that someone audition your system, with a different power amp since the Monarchies are hard to find. How's it going? Still getting great sound?

[Feanor]

1) Yes, but so far all I've heard is that those measurement difference are below the threshold of audibility... with a few exceptions such as length, high capacitance in phono cables and the like.
2) I'd have to speculate but my guess is zero; hence, the problem.
3) Indeed. But if one does a proper audition, it is unlikely to occur after the sale. I have no doubt placebo takes over after a sale if the buyer doesn't do their due diligence in the beginning. In those cases, placebo is hardly their biggest problem!

The last time I checked in with you, you were running what is certainly one of the nicest theoretical (by my experience) non-stratospherically priced audio systems around. In fact, I recently recommended that someone audition your system, with a different power amp since the Monarchies are hard to find. How's it going? Still getting great sound?

MOA,

I agree that audition before purchase is essential, most of all for components such as cables where the effect (if any ) is likely to be small. If a dealer recommended expensive cables to me without the priviledge to try them at home before purchasing, I'd consider him a crook.

I hope you're talking about my current system, details of which are up-do-date at the link below.

I don't think the Monarchys are particularly hard to find. Often they can be bought direct from Monarchy Audio at a substantial discount from MSRP; (supposedly they are "used", refurbs, or whatever). Check out Audiogon.

What I would really like to try at this point is different DAC. I love to try a Monarchy NM24 or an Audio Note. I'm awaiting the arrival of an M-Audio Revolution 7.1 PCI sound card to try in place of my M-Audio Audiophile USB.

[musicoverall]

MOA,
I agree that audition before purchase is essential, most of all for components such as cables where the effect (if any ) is likely to be small.

No argument. I've yet to hear a system that was dramatically changed by cables. Such a system would surely be flawed somewhere in the chain. Absolutely we should upgrade where it makes the most sense and gives the greatest return. Eventually, though, that point is often the cables where a $5000 speaker upgrade is not as cost effective as a $200 cable upgrade... or sometimes even a lower cost cable does the trick.