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  1. #26
    Sure, sure... Auricauricle's Avatar
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    I hear (!) that the 'liths' tweeters can be a bit harsh! The Monolith TMA-1 was just grating....
    "The great tragedy of science--the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact."--T. Huxley

  2. #27
    nightflier
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    Those bass traps look about as large as some of my past subwoofers, LOL. Seriously, though, what are these made of and how large do they need to be (in diameter)?

  3. #28
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    This is how my room looks now. I've decided to settle with 7 pcs for now.
    I may have gone too far..... but boy my room sounds very good.




  4. #29
    old & quite mad
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    Man, that is THE most impressive bong collection I have EVER seen.



    In all seriousness, I have no doubt your room does sound good.

  5. #30
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    This is how my room looks now. I've decided to settle with 7 pcs for now.
    I may have gone too far..... but boy my room sounds very good.



    ..at the very least, these things look super impressive and "artistic". Of course, anything thats in a room will affect the sound, as we all know. I didn't see any info in this thread about placement/positioning. jr, how did you decide where they would go? Further, have you tried different locations in an effort to "tune" the sound? What do you suppose the minimum specs for a system would be for this set-up to be effective? Sorry, alot of questions...

    Hats off to making an extremely interesting addition to your room. I love DIY and to me this is the most engaging thing I have seen on this site. Anyone can throw money at a piece of equipment, but to build it yourself, that takes something special...well done. I look forward to your response.

    You sir, get a headbang!
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  6. #31
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    Very cathedral like, which brings up another question, how tall should they be? What if you're working with an 18' ceiling for example - this could get really involved I'm guessing.

    And what about the WAF? My wife would at least make me paint them white.

  7. #32
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Not sure what the correct height should be, but the original product design is just a tad over 5'. I think 5' is tall enough for the First reflection next to the speakers.

    I just kept the center one taller hoping to diffuse 2nd or later reflected sound.
    Honestly, I don't notice the height difference of the center unit.
    Last edited by jrhymeammo; 09-18-2009 at 12:11 PM.

  8. #33
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppachubby
    ..at the very least, these things look super impressive and "artistic". Of course, anything thats in a room will affect the sound, as we all know. I didn't see any info in this thread about placement/positioning. jr, how did you decide where they would go? Further, have you tried different locations in an effort to "tune" the sound? What do you suppose the minimum specs for a system would be for this set-up to be effective? Sorry, alot of questions...
    Thaks for your kind words.
    I never thought of them as "Artistic", but more like "Ghetto Fab"

    As far as the placement goes, I started with suggested placements I found on the web.
    http://www.ultrasystem.com/Roomlenssetup.html:

    I've tried different placement by focusing more towards:

    1. Behind the listening spot
    2. Both outside of speakers
    3. Both side of listening position.
    4. Front of the listening spot (current placement)

    Results:

    1. This somehow created weird timing and made me nausious.
    2. Great sound separation, but I thought it made sweet-spot a tad smaller.. I'm still not sure.

    3. I already have 6'x3' Acoustic panels on both sides of the listening spot so the Diffusor became less evident. I don't plan to move acoustic panels so I wouldn't know the potential result of this setup.

    4. The best setup so far. Great resolution and ambiance. Maybe I can improve the sound by moving them few inches, but I don't care to further analyze and drive myself crazy. Now, I can just enjoy listening to music and play with different gear without doubting my room.

    As far as the minimum spec of a system, I don't think it matters at all.
    If there are problems with the room, then bad or good system wouldn't matter to begin with. I believe a good room will maximize the potentials of both good and bad systems.
    I hope I answered your question.

    JRA

  9. #34
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oaqm
    Man, that is THE most impressive bong collection I have EVER seen.
    Thanks,
    The combination of glue and lumber adds nice aroma.
    I should've used water at the bottom to purify the musical high.

    JRA

  10. #35
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Ya, thanks jr, I am going to read up and maybe try these in my listening room. I was sizing up my room and started drafting a design that would mount to the wall and clamp the pipe, essentially having the pipe free floating. Without any research yet, can you tell me how integral the base is to this unit? Is the base necessary and if so, is it important that it sits on the floor? Thanks jr...

  11. #36
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Chubby,

    If you are considering to go for the on-wall approach, you may want to give below link a consideration. I was initially going to go with what this guy did, but I rent and wanted to be able to relocate the diffusers without use of nails.


    http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?p=45486



    Free standing is design allows sound to diffuse in much wider range almost 360 degrees , while on-wall will diffuse less than 180 degrees. It's "almost" like dipole vs monopole. So yes, I do think it's important to have them sit on the floor.

    JRA

  12. #37
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Chubby,

    If you are considering to go for the on-wall approach, you may want to give below link a consideration. I was initially going to go with what this guy did, but I rent and wanted to be able to relocate the diffusers without use of nails.


    http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?p=45486



    Free standing is design allows sound to diffuse in much wider range almost 360 degrees , while on-wall will diffuse less than 180 degrees. It's "almost" like dipole vs monopole. So yes, I do think it's important to have them sit on the floor.

    JRA
    Excellent, floor standing it is then...thanks alot jr!

  13. #38
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    Hi jrhymeammo,

    I'm really interested to diy the RoomLens, I read their review, they are amazing. Can you share the details on the making, like the materials, dimension, etc ? And how about the material inside the pipe.

  14. #39
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    This is how my room looks now. I've decided to settle with 7 pcs for now.
    I may have gone too far..... but boy my room sounds very good.

    ...


    I think you need some on the ceilings. I guess you would hang them cross-wise with respect to your listening position, i.e parallel to the line between the speakers. Come to that the same would help held a foot or so above the floor.

    How about painting the tubes? So much black is pretty monotonous; maybe various, contrasting bright color?


  15. #40
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio333
    Hi jrhymeammo,

    I'm really interested to diy the RoomLens, I read their review, they are amazing. Can you share the details on the making, like the materials, dimension, etc ? And how about the material inside the pipe.

    Hey Audio333,
    I'm sorry about my late reply.

    I haven't filled inside of tubes, and I doubt I will.
    Here is what I did:

    -2" x 4" x 8' - cut them into 3.5" squares and cut out 2 3/8" holes.
    -2" x 8" x 8' - Cut them into 8 sections of 12" width.
    -5 ft, 2" PVC pipes*. PVC pipes were listed as 2" pipes at the store, but they were actually 2 3/8" in outer diameter.

    *I've been told the they are ABS pipes, instead of PVC. They are lighter than PVC pipes. PVC pipes may have different outer dimension. In any case, you may want to measure the pipes and cut out holes accordingly.

    I just used wood glue between 2 pieces of cut out wood.

    Happy New Year,
    JRA

  16. #41
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    hey, nice looking room, dude.

    can you tell us how this room sounds compared to the room without the lenses with respects to staging/imaging?
    Source: Musical Fidelity A5CD
    Pre: Stevens & Billington TVC
    Power: Heathkit W4; Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB splitter, '55 Sylvania 6SN7GTA driver, Russian 6P3SE outputs
    Speakers: Reference 3A Veena
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    Speaker Cable: Tara Labs RSC Prime 1000
    Power Cables: Furutech 314 with Oyaide 079 connectors
    Rack: Rack of Silence
    Room: well treated with panel absorbers

  17. #42
    Forum Regular usbmusic's Avatar
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    A quick question for you. Do you fill lead shot or sand in those PVC?

  18. #43
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    Roomlens

    Hi JRA,

    Thanks for your reply. But there is one thing that I don't understand.
    With all the pipes at same length and without stuffing, does it means they only deal with one specific frequency? Should I use different length or dia if I want to curb different frequency or I should put stuffing to tune? Anyway to calculate? Please enlighten. Thanks.

  19. #44
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audio333
    Hi JRA,

    Thanks for your reply. But there is one thing that I don't understand.
    With all the pipes at same length and without stuffing, does it means they only deal with one specific frequency? Should I use different length or dia if I want to curb different frequency or I should put stuffing to tune? Anyway to calculate? Please enlighten. Thanks.
    JRA will speak his peace. But I don't think the intention is that the tubes act as resonators but rather as defusers, in which case they will handle a fairly wide range of frequencies I believe.

  20. #45
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Oops, sorry I thought I had answered those questions.

  21. #46
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the hand of boredom
    hey, nice looking room, dude.

    can you tell us how this room sounds compared to the room without the lenses with respects to staging/imaging?
    Sorry, I will Copy and Paste but will add some comments.


    These things are no joke.
    Sound is crystal clear and free from coloration.
    I had expected and wanted sound stage to be bigger, but that has not been the case. Again, sound stage NOT bigger but freakishly clear. I imagine this is due to elimination of flutter echo and disperson of higher freq.

    But music still sounds great without these hideous poles.
    I have taken them out of my room due to their aesthetics. This is the reason why I'm not an audiophile. I still take them out occassionaly and enjoy them for what they offer.

  22. #47
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usbmusic
    A quick question for you. Do you fill lead shot or sand in those PVC?
    No, but I'm sure sound do resonate inside of tubes. I'm just not concerned about that, and doubt I will hear the difference.

    I believe the key point is to stagger the distance between tubes. The difference distance should diffuse different sound freq.
    The DIY site I saw had suggested to use poly-stuffing to reduce resonance.

    One thing I hadn't considered is the material used for tubes. I'm sure different material and thickness will impact the sound, but they are too ugly for my taste.

  23. #48
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    From one of the links to the original product:

    The Argent RoomLens is a reactive resonator that disperses and refracts sound rather than passively damping or absorbing it.
    While I have no doubt they are doing something, it's pretty unclear what they are trying to claim about it. Reactive resonator? It is a passive acoustic treatment device, but it sounds like they are trying to make it appear more than it is with technobabble! Sound refracts when passing through a different medium in which sound travels at a different speed. This isn't what is happening with this device. It's most likely it is an acoustic diffuser. If it is tuned in any way then they could possibly be helmholz resonators of some kind, but that doesn't fit with any of the discussion.

    The main change I'd expect is imaging, depending on placement.

    http://www.ultrasystem.com/Roomlenssetup.html

    The first example almost becomes an extension of the speaker baffle. This will impact baffle diffraction in some way.

    The problem I see is that you are introducing early reflections, which are the main enemy of accurate imaging. Any reflections that occur within a 10msec window are critical, as the brain uses this information to determine location of sounds. This is known as precedence effect. Diffusers in general cause the sound to bounce around a room with a longer path, resulting in a greater delay. More of the reflected sound arrives after the 10ms window and this is a good thing for imaging.

    But why place diffusers so close to the speakers as in some of the examples? My cynical side suspects that this is suggested because it will create the most obvious difference. If people can't hear any difference (more likely when placed further from speakers), then they are more likely to think they have wasted their money and been duped. It's one thing to hear a difference, another for it to be an improvement in accuracy. You have to be a little wary when you want it to be better. Very tempting to jump to the conclusion that any subtle difference you hear is actually better. It's very hard to do a blind test, and the time taken to change things tends to invalidate the results.

    They do look novel, and I don't mean to ruin the fun, but I suspect you would be better with some carefully thought out BBC diffusers. You can download info on them online and they actually have credible measurements showing their performance. Unless of course you prefer the mystique and voodoo of these creations, or the look. Or having novel audio gadgets that are a talking point. If you want to get really trippy, you could have a lot of fun with a heat gun on some PVC pipes to get some curves.

    Anyone interested in diffusers and room treatment should read a Harman white paper you can download at the Harman website. Google Harman white papers on acoustic room treatment or similar. PDF download.

  24. #49
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info, Paul.

    Since my initial fun, I have taken them out of the room. Music sounds just fine with or without them. As you know strategic placement is always neccesary to maximize room treatment. Last thing I'm interested in now is to worry about these changes. Sound absorption at the first reflection point is more effective than what this thread suggests.

    But one thing for certain is that music sounded very very clear with these poles next to my speakers.

  25. #50
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    I don't doublt it - those are fine speakers and should sound very clear in any room that isn't terrible! I showed the photo to my housemate, she was impressed just by the look.

    Now that you've built them, I'd suggest have a look at the Harman paper. You might get some ideas on how you could use them, or try different versions that you might like better.

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