"Audiophile Debate"

[Mr Peabody]

Upstairs you are using an ARC SP-9 with phono stage? The SP-9 must be a cherry piece, I've run across a few people who still use one. Ironically, one of the guys worked for our ARC dealer and had VTL monoblocks as well. He sold his though. He was using the ARC digital amp until he decided which way to go. I heard the VTL's and really liked them. I was not impressed with ARC's digital amp despite his enthusiasm. It was matched with the LS-16 pre, I think that's the right model, it ran about $3,500.00. I didn't care for the sound at all. I actually brought those two pieces home for an audition when I was looking for some tube gear.

[E-Stat]

Upstairs you are using an ARC SP-9 with phono stage?

Actually, the MKIII flavor. Its tonal balance is warmer than the first two versions. And I use it only when using the phono source.

It was matched with the LS-16 pre, I think that's the right model, it ran about $3,500.00. I didn't care for the sound at all.

While the earlier models (like mine) are 6922 based, the newer ones use the 6H30 tube. I confess that I have not heard any of those models. Conrad-Johnson, for example, still uses 6922s in the ART III (which I have heard at Seacliff).

rw

[jim goulding]

Sea Cliff? My, you are an old tiger. Might I recognize your name if I were to hear it?

postnote- Visited "upstairs" on AA. I formerly used stats in my main listening room, Acoustat Threes. Bet you'd recognize my other gear of the time, too. I still use a vintage Koetsu Black on occasion but an Accuphase MC yielded more excitement. Not that the Acoustats are in the same league, but produce sound similarly. I use some self powered mtm monitors now that are very synergistic with my room in soundstage openess. Walls disappear, and all that, with the thing I do contributing. What I miss most about my stats is the linearity of sound in this room and the physically warming bass. A Bosendorfer couldn't be mistaken for anything else. And the tone of well recorded acoustic bass would melt a hard heart. I may have a treat for you. It's an old Paul Chambers re-release said to be recorded in Rudy Van Gelder's living room, Bass On Top (Blue Note). Do carry on! Many thanks.

[E-Stat]

Sea Cliff? My, you are an old tiger. Might I recognize your name if I were to hear it?

Nope, only my mentors. I met Dr. Cooledge (JWC) when I worked at a hi-fi shop in Atl in the 70s. It was through the good doctor I met HP. Business takes me to Long Island from time to time where I can hear his latest toys.

postnote- Visited "upstairs" on AA. I formerly used stats in my main listening room, Acoustat Threes.

Bob Rieman and Jim Strickland brought a pair to JWC for review in the magazine. All of us from the shop met them over at chez Cooledge. Soon after, we sold the product and I bought a pair of the X.

Bet you'd recognize my other gear of the time, too. I still use a vintage Koetsu Black on occasion but an Accuphase MC yielded more excitement. Not that the Acoustats are in the same league, but produce sound similarly.

Oh yes. Had an AC-2 myself some time ago. I enjoyed various Acoustats (Monitor 4, 2+2) for over twenty five years. Indeed I find something special about most all full range stats. It was hearing JWC's Dayton-Wrights that got me started.

rw

[Slippers On]

Name-dropping has no place here in audiophilia...if you want me to start...............

Get back to encouraging new Audiophiles.

One Slipper on, one off

[jim goulding]

Sure, Slip, whatever you say . I thought it was courteous of the man to reply to me.

[Slippers On]

Sure, Slip, whatever you say . I thought it was courteous of the man to reply to me.

Apologies are mine, I over-reacted.

I feel the thread is getting away from itself. I am hoping to put up a case for shaking the living daylights out of those, (commercial enterprises including press), who have hi-jacked the meaning of the word 'Audiophile', and seek to turn it into a cliche to fill their pockets.

I believe it is important that they understand that WE are the guys who call the shots and THEY should feel priviledged to have us as customers. Not that up and coming audiophiles should be dictated to by commercial interests.

Slippers On

[E-Stat]

Get back to encouraging new Audiophiles.

We are the sum of our experiences. I wish there were some sort of *audiophile camp* where those who express an interest could be immersed in the finest sound quality components and instructed in the listening process. I feel extremely privileged (and lucky) to have effectively had that opportunity when I was Basite's age. I had several mentors who exposed me to the beauty of classical music and how to listen critically using some of the best stuff back then.

I have clear memories of not only the first time I heard Magneplanars (1974 - I was 17), but the song playing at the time. Similarly, I remember first hearing the incredible (for its day) Infinity IRS system in a superb system back in 1980. Those experiences recalibrated my point of reference.

rw

[hermanv]

So what is an Audiophile? We can’t really define it in regards to the music itself. Most everyone enjoys a live event to a reproduction. So I feel that it may be impossible to define what an audiophile is without a debate on how or what equipment we use to achieve the reproduction of music.

In a similar vein, the discussion about front end vs. back end improvements of the reproduction chain is not very worthwhile because the improvement in reproduction is so highly dependent on the starting point and the goal.

No amount of front end investment will make a 2 way bookshelf speaker that is deficient in bass become a bass powerhouse, similarly the best speaker made can not fix a poor signal from the front end.

One of the reasons I got caught up in an upgrade merry-go-round was that each improvement I made, revealed a deficiency that was previously either unheard in my system or acceptable before the new piece was added. Even if you had the money a mass market system would be hard pressed to help you decide if the Burmester, Meridian or Boulder CD player had the better sound.

Conversely a $54 Best Buy CD player will make it difficult if not impossible to chose between a Dynaudio, B&W or Kharma speaker. So it seems that you must have good speakers to hear a good front end and conversely you must have a good front end to hear a good speaker. Much of the rest is sales mumbo jumbo.

All this is made worse by a deficiency in language or knowledge to describe what it is that’s missing or wrong with the reproduction chain. Yes, we all know what distortion means on a performance graph, how many of us can identify not only the amount of distortion, but whether it is even or odd harmonic by just listening?

So it turns out that every contributor to this thread seems at least partially right in their opinion.

Let me try for a definition of a true audiophile:
An Audiophile is a person who spends more than average effort in getting the best sound quality for a given environment and budget. A person who asks, how could I make this experience more faithful to live music, how can I make it better within my means than it is now?

Regarding the relationship between money and sound quality, money alone won’t do it; I have heard exotic expensive equipment not do a good job. Knowledge alone won’t do it either; room treatments might help but won’t make that $150 system sound like top of the line gear. It takes some money to buy good equipment at a given price point and some knowledge to achieve the best sound you can get for the gear that you have.

I strongly recommend a buddy system. You listen to each others gear, you swap one of your pieces of equipment for one of his and you discuss what it is you hear that's different, worse or better. Both parties profit by this exchange, both parties learn about audio language, the contribution of a room and the relative value of a piece of equipment.