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  1. #1
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    Vinyl IS masochism

    I know not any other way to express my current opinion about my attraction to vinyl other than, it is masochism.

    When that one record in the evening, that one side, on that one song, that makes me stop what I am working on, put the laptop screen low, close my eyes, and say - THIS is worth the all the pain - THIS is music.

    that is what makes me continue to try to get vinyl right, because CDs just don't sound like THAT.

  2. #2
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Amen. Sounds like you've arrived at the analog gates...

  3. #3
    One of Jerry's Kids Jim Eck's Avatar
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    Have you given any thought to a Reel to Reel? Record your favorites to an analog 7 or 10 inch reel for hours of your favorite analog sounds. Cassette is another option, and there is a new tape company making quality tape again. Reel to Reel is tough to beat though for sound quality and for hours of music.


    Jim
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  4. #4
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Eck
    Have you given any thought to a Reel to Reel? Record your favorites to an analog 7 or 10 inch reel for hours of your favorite analog sounds. Cassette is another option, and there is a new tape company making quality tape again. Reel to Reel is tough to beat though for sound quality and for hours of music.


    Jim
    Jim's right. People are getting rid of their reel to reel players all the time. Could be a fun option Adam...

    HifiTommy would know where to go in your area I bet...

  5. #5
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
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    reel to reel - no way - thanks though

  6. #6
    One of Jerry's Kids Jim Eck's Avatar
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    Yeah, you are right, already having an obsession with Vinyl the last thing any of us need is an obsession for tape.

    Jim
    Fairchild 412-1B SME arm Pickering XSV-3000
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    Tube system Scott 299B, Thorens TD-160, Klipsch Heresy's

  7. #7
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    One effect of all this is that I now have to shop for records every chance I get. It's a bit of an addiction.

  8. #8
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Here's a great site...http://www.laventure.net/tourist/

  9. #9
    Vinyl Junkie slate1's Avatar
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    Ditch that BPS in favor of a Jico SAS-MM1 or the best Nagaoka cartridge you can buy and you'll be getting that feeling a whole lot more often than the occasional track!

    I don't mean that in nearly the snarky manner in which you're probably taking it - the BPS is a fine cartridge but it is, in my opinion, the weak link in your otherwise well thought out analog system.
    Cayin A-70T Integrated w/ Gold Lion Tubes PS Audio GCPH Phono Stage Pro-Ject RPM-9.1 Turntable w/ Pro-Ject Ground-It and Pro-Ject Speedbox II Dynavector 20X2H Cartridge Usher Audio X-718 Monitors Ultimate Cables C4 Interconnects & Speaker Cables

  10. #10
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Criticizing when the OP didn't ask for it, dissin' the BPS, promoting Jico and Nagaoka, got a KAB SL-1200 with a V15...did it miss my AR link and hit the asylum instead?

  11. #11
    Vinyl Junkie slate1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    Criticizing when the OP didn't ask for it, dissin' the BPS, promoting Jico and Nagaoka, got a KAB SL-1200 with a V15...did it miss my AR link and hit the asylum instead?
    I think it's pretty clear he's asking for help. He plainly says he's continuing "to try to get vinyl right."

    That being said, what part of "the BPS is a fine cartridge" did you misunderstand? I wasn't criticizing the original poster a bit. But, to think the BPS can't be bettered for not much money is just crazy. He stated that he only REALLY enjoys the occasional track with his current analog front end. That statement speaks volumes. I get that feeling of involvement in the music he is describing almost everytime I spin a record! If he, or anyone else, is not - then something is amiss.

    I'll let the irony of you backhanded comments go, but, I have to ask - ever heard a fully mod'd KAB table or a Nagaoka cartridge???
    Cayin A-70T Integrated w/ Gold Lion Tubes PS Audio GCPH Phono Stage Pro-Ject RPM-9.1 Turntable w/ Pro-Ject Ground-It and Pro-Ject Speedbox II Dynavector 20X2H Cartridge Usher Audio X-718 Monitors Ultimate Cables C4 Interconnects & Speaker Cables

  12. #12
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Regarding BPS is a fine cartridge I understand you're calling it the weak link. That looks straightforward. I'm not sure what there is to not understand. That said, I had no intention of starting a debate about the quality of the gear mentioned. It's the Vinyl Asylum that I was criticizing (with perhaps inappropriate sarcasm on my part) and I would be dispapointed to see its influence sneak into AR.
    Last edited by 02audionoob; 03-06-2010 at 09:19 AM.

  13. #13
    Vinyl Junkie slate1's Avatar
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    There's no question the BPS is the weak link in the OP's analog chain. Take a look at some of his other posts - you'll see him commenting on excessive sibilance, uninvolving listening sessions, etc.. It's obvious to me that SOMETHING is causing the problem.

    Instead of suggesting he try some other form of media (reel to reel) I thought the obvious answer was to address the issue at hand. Look at his analog gear, I've owned every bit of it - the Rega table is fantastic, the Simaudio phono stage is outstanding, that leaves the cartridge. What he's complaining about (sibilance - a result of poor tracking, uninvolving sterile playback, etc.) are all exactly what I experienced with the Sumiko carts.

    I wasn't criticizing the OP at all, I was merely pointing out the potential and likely source of his ills.

    As for your Vinyl Asylum comment ... you should have been here when I joined this forum many years ago. It was a freaking blood bath when I purchased my first KAB table. I actually escaped to the VA to find some solace the tolerance level here was so low. I'm not afraid to admit that when I first read your response all I could think was this damned place hasn't changed a bit...
    Cayin A-70T Integrated w/ Gold Lion Tubes PS Audio GCPH Phono Stage Pro-Ject RPM-9.1 Turntable w/ Pro-Ject Ground-It and Pro-Ject Speedbox II Dynavector 20X2H Cartridge Usher Audio X-718 Monitors Ultimate Cables C4 Interconnects & Speaker Cables

  14. #14
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I personally find the TOTL Technics turntables and the Nagaoka cartridges to be very impressive, especially for the money. I've recommended Nagaoka here, several times.

    However, the tolerance level at the Vinyl Asylum isn't very high at all. There is discussion of the KAB turntables and SL-1200s in thread after thread. If someone were to start a thread about trying to choose between VPI Scout and Rega P5, someone would soon say they're both nowhere near an SL-1200. If someone has five turntables and they want to know which one Asylum members suggest they keep, the answer from someone will be to sell them all and get a KAB turntable.

    I don't remember your days of purchasing a KAB or getting criticized here for it. Maybe it pre-dates me. But I do have an open mind. That's exactly the problem I had with you jumping on the BPS. It looks just like the BPS argument they've been having at the Asylum. And...Your first comment on Nagaoka looks like a direct quote of Asylum member hukkfinn.

  15. #15
    Vinyl Junkie slate1's Avatar
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    Well, I'm certainly not hukkfinn if that's what you're asking! I see you joined in 2008 - my history here goes back to 2004, although I haven't been very active - the experiences I was talking about do indeed pre-date your participation here.

    I understand your sensitivity to what appears to be a lovefest at the VA for certain pieces of gear. There's a natural "flavor of the month" mentality with audio-gear; always has been for the 30-odd years I've been enjoying the audio hobby. That being said - great gear is great gear and time ultimately hammers out what is truly great gear. The KAB tables, Jico styli, Shure and Nagaoka cartridges are all time-tested GREAT affordable pieces of gear - no matter what site seems to talk most about them!

    I'm going to call you out on something - fair warning - you speak of having an "open mind", but, you immediately assume I'm some closed minded Asylum shill based on the simple and sole fact that I (rightfully, by the way) focused on the BPS as the weak link in atomicAdam's analog chain and the simple fact that I own certain pieces of gear (a KAB table with a Shure cartridge). That's about as "open minded" as politics! In fact, I'd call that a closed-minded bias on par with dismissing anything I post based on the fact that I've got Eddie as my avatar...

    Look, here's the thing - there needs to be an open and friendly conduit for the exchange of ideas on these forums if anything is going to be accomplished. Simply stating a rule that "thou shalt do nothing yet heap praise upon the purchasing choices of our fellow audio enthusiasts; ye shall not criticize thou cartridge, thou table, nor thou Machina Dynamica Clever Little Clock" renders this place useless!

    .... especially if I'm not allowed to make fun of someone's Machina Dynamica Teleporation Tweak ....
    Last edited by slate1; 03-06-2010 at 12:33 PM.
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  16. #16
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    You may certainly think I don't have an open mind. That's your prerogative. I simply stated it because I believe it, not because I'm trying to prove it to you.

    I know you're not hukkfinn. That wasn't my point. In fact, I already saw slate1 in the search I did for posts containing the terms "KAB" and "1200", naturally. Of course, I found hukkfinn, Opus 104 and the usual cast of characters. My point is that BPS bashing is something that goes on at Vinyl Asylum and you brought it here. It's like a big game there, as with the 1200, too. The comments there on the KAB 1200 are not just the flavor of the month. They go on and on for literally years, based on the searches I've run. It eventually becomes inbred, not an exchange of ideas.

    I find it a little frustrating when I open a thread with interest to see what someone has to say about their P5 or their Scout or whatever, only to find one of the usual suspects has already told them to sell it and get a KAB 1200. In fact, I get a little frustrated with having been told the same thing.

    So to be clear, I am not criticizing anyone's gear or their tweaks or whatever. You're certainly welcome to do that...and I know I am, too. I am, however, criticizing those who tell others their gear is bad and they need to get one particular item to replace it, without recognizing the fact that there are many great options available and some might justifiably have more appeal to the less-outpoken members of the forum. You may criticize as you see fit, but remember it's a public forum. You're entitled to criticize a cartridge and I'm entitled to criticize your approach. And you may criticize me, right back.

  17. #17
    Vinyl Junkie slate1's Avatar
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    I guess what's most frustrating to me is that I'm not bashing anything at all - not you, not the forum, not the BPS, nothing! Not in the least.

    What it seems to come down to is this, you're upset because, to quote, "BPS bashing is something that goes on at Vinyl Asylum and you brought it here." That's simply not true! If it's the weak link in the chain, its the weak link in the chain - plain and simple! I wasn't bashing it! I even went out of my way to say it's a "fine cartridge" and, it is. Can it be betttered? Of course! Is it what **I** (not the Vinyl Asylum... but ME, you need to separate to the two to gain some objectivity here) perceive as atomicAdam's chief source of his problems? Yes!

    What? We're not EVER to mention on this forum that there's a better cartridge than the BPS?!?! Not EVER to mention here that the KAB 1200 is an outstanding table?!?!

    I just don't get it, I guess... you said, "I am, however, criticizing those who tell others their gear is bad and they need to get one particular item to replace it, without recognizing the fact that there are many great options available and some might justifiably have more appeal to the less-outpoken members of the forum."

    I agree! I would criticize those folks too! I want you to tell me how my recommendation falls into that category, however? I mentioned several cartridges that would meet his needs. Did I not mention enough? Here some others: and old Shure V15 III or V with a Jico stylus, an AT-150MLX, and AT-120E ... oh wait, those have all been mentioned on the VA too!!! Maybe you need to just tell me what cartridges I'm allowed to mention here... :-)

    I tell you what - do this - take the focus off me and look at atomicAndy's original post. Tell him what you think the source for his dissatisfaction in his analog rig is. If you think it's not the BPS, that's cool - I've got total respect for that opinion - but do look hard at his system and tell him what you think is causing his excessive sibilance and lack of musical involvement. Let's get this back on track and help the man out. He is, obviously, screaming for help isn't he? He speaks of vinyl playback being masochism for crying out loud!
    Cayin A-70T Integrated w/ Gold Lion Tubes PS Audio GCPH Phono Stage Pro-Ject RPM-9.1 Turntable w/ Pro-Ject Ground-It and Pro-Ject Speedbox II Dynavector 20X2H Cartridge Usher Audio X-718 Monitors Ultimate Cables C4 Interconnects & Speaker Cables

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Eck
    Have you given any thought to a Reel to Reel? Record your favorites to an analog 7 or 10 inch reel for hours of your favorite analog sounds. Cassette is another option, and there is a new tape company making quality tape again. Reel to Reel is tough to beat though for sound quality and for hours of music.
    Jim,

    Who is making tape?
    A few years back I purchased some 7" reels from Quantegy but I've been unable to do so of late and have since given up.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Eck
    Have you given any thought to a Reel to Reel? Record your favorites to an analog 7 or 10 inch reel for hours of your favorite analog sounds. Cassette is another option, and there is a new tape company making quality tape again. Reel to Reel is tough to beat though for sound quality and for hours of music.


    Jim

    Speaking of R2R, I had the pleasure of working with a friend to record the LA Chamber orchestra last March when they performed at the Pauley Pavillion at UCLA.

    The intended recording device was a Tascam disk recorder. However, just for kicks, we also hooked up a Revox 10" and a Tanberg 7" to the same source.

    Comparing them after the event in their raw form there were notable differences in sound quality. I would have to listen to them again but at the time I think I preferred the 7" Tandberg . The R2Rs are a pain to dial in and setup. And you have to closely monitor status as the performance progresses. The Digital disk in contrast is 100% automated and totally self contained requiring no user input during the event. It makes no sense to expend the effort on the R2Rs.

    With that said----It was an enjoyable exercise that only an "analog junkie" could appreciate.

  20. #20
    One of Jerry's Kids Jim Eck's Avatar
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    http://www.phxaudiotape.com/main.asp...aqbAFXyuYZZyHh

    Phoenix Tape is making quality cassette tape, metal and chrome, you might inquire there regarding R2R tape, Larry is always working trying to get new things going.

    Jim
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  21. #21
    One of Jerry's Kids Jim Eck's Avatar
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    I contacted Larry and he says there is a dealer in the UK that is carrying new R2R tape.

    Jim
    Fairchild 412-1B SME arm Pickering XSV-3000
    Thorens Weight
    GAS Thoebe
    Grant Fidelity B-283
    California Audio Labs Delta Transport
    Paradesea DAC
    DBX-3BX-DS
    Sansui TU-7700
    Adcom 585
    Hafler Pro 500
    Tara Labs Cable
    Legacy Classic's

    Tube system Scott 299B, Thorens TD-160, Klipsch Heresy's

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