Turntable Advice for cheapskate

[Dusty Chalk]

A friend of mine recently got the Rega P1 and he's in love. He says it's extremely easy to set up -- practically plug'n'play -- an excellent choice for an entry level system (which is a fancy way of saying "cheapskate").

[Lo-Fi]

Got the AT on Tuesday. All is well with the unit and I'm a happy camper. The supplied cartridge sounds pretty darn good on my budget system. I'll probably upgrade later but it'll do just fine for now.

The first record ever played on it was the Death Wish II soundtrack, how many people can claim that!

Question, The recommended tracking force is 3.0 to 5.0 grams for the supplied cart, I set it at 3 and it tracks right thru every just fine so far. Is it best to try several different settings to see which sounds best?

Now that I'm in vinyl heaven what maintenance gizmos are needed? I've got sylus brush on my list, I do have a record brush left over from the old days but I think its well past its prime.

[jrhymeammo]

I recommend you to get a carbonfibre Rbrush. AudioQuest makes one for $20, but dont be a fool like me. You can get one for around $10 if you search it on google. I think it was somelike garage-a-record.

3 grams of tracking force is not acceptable. ABUSE!!!!!! well they are your records, so you can do however you please. If I remember correctly, 1 gram of VTF is equal to 2 tons of pressure per square inch. You may want to do your records a favor and get a cheap cartridge that'll track around 1.5g. I wouldnt decrease the VTF with your cart since it was designed to track at 3-5 grams.
Try this link
http://www.needledoctor.com/Closeout...ljGr5XDqQLvpAe

There is a Sumiko Oyster for $30. I hated that cart, but everyone has a different taste. Maybe it's for you.

J-Murda

[Feanor]

Got the AT on Tuesday. All is well with the unit and I'm a happy camper. The supplied cartridge sounds pretty darn good on my budget system. I'll probably upgrade later but it'll do just fine for now.

The first record ever played on it was the Death Wish II soundtrack, how many people can claim that!

Question, The recommended tracking force is 3.0 to 5.0 grams for the supplied cart, I set it at 3 and it tracks right thru every just fine so far. Is it best to try several different settings to see which sounds best?

Now that I'm in vinyl heaven what maintenance gizmos are needed? I've got sylus brush on my list, I do have a record brush left over from the old days but I think its well past its prime.

If so, then it's probably designed to take abuse itself, but at the expense of your records and sound quality to some extent.

There's been buzz around here about Denon moving coil cartridges suitable for higher mass tonearms such as the AT's.

• DL-103, low output, around $150
• DL-110, high output, around $120

The latter doesn't require an MC-capable phono preamp.

[squeegy200]

If you are attempting to stay on the budget side of the spectrum, I would suggest exploring the Grado Prestige Black. The Grado Black cartridge has a recommended tracking force of only 1-2g. Yet its available thru various online retailers like Needledoctor for a mere $40. It is a moving magnet high output design so you would not need an additional MC setup up phone preamp. It will work with any built-in phone stage.

BTW: There are test records available out there that would assist you in proper setup, alignment, and calibration of your cartridge. A test record would help you find the most musical and least destructive settings regardless of your choice of cartridge.

[royphil345]

Glad to hear you're enjoying your new AT!!!

Yeah... The 3 grams+ is a little excessive considering the stylus is elliptical. Many DJ cartridges that track on the heavy side use a conical stylus to reduce record wear. You don't want to track a cartridge lighter than recommended though. Mistracking is worse for records than tracking a little heavy.

You can fine-tune the tracking force by ear. Tracking lighter will emphasize the frequency extremes. Tracking a little heavier will emphasize the mids. You can usually find the "perfect" setting somewhere within the cartridges recommended range. Don't know how much higher than 3 grams I'd want to go...

You can fine-tune the tonearm height in a similar fashion. Having the rear of the tonearm too high will emphasize the highs. To low... The lows will be emphasized... vocals become weak... Just adjust until the sound is balanced and the timing of the music sounds right.

Something like the AT95E or Grado Black could be a little easier on your records and would probably improve sound-quality a bit without breaking the bank. ...Or you could save up for a Denon 110, Ortofon OM 20 Super... Denon 103 with a budget moving coil preamp like the NAD PP-2 or Pro-Ject Phonobox 2...

I got that mat in the mail to you today, so don't go crazy getting the VTA exactly right... You'll just have to set it again with a different mat... LOL

Awwww shoot... I could have thrown a stylus brush in the box too... Have quite a collection of them. Many cartridges come with one, and I've been through a few... A Magic Eraser from the grocery store cleaning supplies section is supposed to make an excellent stylus cleaner. You gently lower the stylus onto it and lift it back up a few times. I've just started using this method and it seems to work great. I might as well stick a brush in an envelope for you anyway... That's sure no big deal...

A carbon fiber brush or a velvet brush / fluid system like the Discwasher are both fine for dusting and removing static before playing a record.

[jrhymeammo]

I got that mat in the mail to you today, so don't go crazy getting the VTA exactly right... You'll just have to set it again with a different mat... LOL

Wow, you are too nice Roy. A guy like you deserve a belt-drive

Hey Lo-Fi.

If you gotta go cheap on one thing, then let it be your TT(by any means Im not saying that your TT is cheap). Cartridge will mostly impact your sound more than anything else.
BTW, enjoying da hell outta my 301.

J-Murda

[royphil345]

Wow, you are too nice Roy. A guy like you deserve a belt-drive

J-Murda

LOL...

Glad you're liking the 301!!! Quite the deal you got on that...

Denon carts rule!!!... and direct drive... LOL

[Lo-Fi]

Thanks for the heads up on VTF, looks like a cart change is coming sooner than later. I knew well enough that I would be spending more money right after TT purchase so a new budget cart can be handled. A $100 on up cart would be something considered down the road a bit. small steps, small steps otherwise I'll go

Thanks again Roy for the mat.

[jrhymeammo]

Thanks for the heads up on VTF, looks like a cart change is coming sooner than later. I knew well enough that I would be spending more money right after TT purchase so a new budget cart can be handled. A $100 on up cart would be something considered down the road a bit. small steps, small steps otherwise I'll go

Thanks again Roy for the mat.

Roy, you have touched my heart. And just now I received a PM from Bernd, and he was kind enough to send me silver coated OFC for me to use as jumper cable. For that, I think I will spread my love as well.

Lo-Fi. I have a Grado cartirdge you can have. If you are interested, then send me a private message thru this site.

Pay it Forward? LOL

J-Murda

[Lo-Fi]

I'm afraid I don't have any audio stuff to reciprocate the kindness here. I do have lots of 8mm & Super 8 cameras/accessories laying around if anyone wants to get into shooting movie film as a hobby, its real fun.

[royphil345]

Nice!!!!!!

[jrhymeammo]

well, if you are not a old fart like everyone else here, then I'll take some home made porn you have made.

Not a problem. I'm all about trying to trick people into thinking vinyl sounds good.

J-Murda

[Lo-Fi]

Got all the goodies on and adjusted without harm. Pics coming

Wow VTA really does make a difference, even I can hear it. Could fiddle with it hours.

One question on anti-skate. I set the VTF and then matched that with the anti-skate. When the needle drops on the edge it zips quickly inward sometimes skipping right thru the first few grooves (ouch). Is this a simple matter of turning the anti-skate up a bit til that stops? Not sure if any harm comes from over compensating this.

[royphil345]

I've noticed some cartridges hold the beginning groove of records better than others. I remember having 1 or 2 that I had to be real careful setting down at the beginning of a record. You'd probably have to adjust the anti-skate too much in order to make a difference. I hate to tell you this after your "play with it for hours" comment on the VTA... but really the only way to set the ani-skate properly is by ear as well. It effects the right and left channel balance. The timing of the music won't sound right if it's not adjusted exactly right. I wouldn't sweat it too much right now. In time you'll develop an ear for what the different adjustments do... I'd stick with it set pretty close to the VTF force though.

Are you using the Grado from JRA? What tracking force are you using? Most cartridges seem to track better at the middle or top of their range. The tonearrm counterweight zero adjustment is correct ? Does the headshell look twisted to the left or right, causing the needle not to stand straight up in the groove? Oh... and VERY important... Is the turntable perfectly level? Go pick up an inexpensive level if you don't own one.

Good luck!!! Seems like things are coming together nicely for you... Would love to see a pic!!!

[Lo-Fi]

Are you using the Grado from JRA? What tracking force are you using? Most cartridges seem to track better at the middle or top of their range. The tonearrm counterweight zero adjustment is correct ? Does the headshell look twisted to the left or right, causing the needle not to stand straight up in the groove? Oh... and VERY important... Is the turntable perfectly level? Go pick up an inexpensive level if you don't own one.

Yep the Grado is in!! It said the recommended VTF was 1.5 (didn't see a range) so I went with that. I reset the counterweight to zero after balancing the arm, the headshell looks level and I did spend 20 minutes leveling the turntable

[royphil345]

Hmmmmmmmm.... I wish you screwed something up so I could help..... LOL. Sounds like you have it down though...

Sounds like you've done about all you can. Maybe just the way the cartridge is? It's possible the markings on the anti skate aren't accurate, but I'm not sure how likely. The markings on my Technics seem accurate to well within .1 gram. You could try adding a little extra if it helps....

[blackraven]

Looks like I have alot to learn about cartriges when I purchase a turntable. 25 years ago all I knew about were the Stanton 681EEE and Sure V series. Those were good cartiges in their time for budget minded people.

[JoeE SP9]

If I remember correctly HFNRR has a test LP that includes a test signal for setting anti-skate. A grooveless record is a good place to start when setting anti-skate. However, the grooves themselves will change the required amount.

In A Pinch Method
Use an LP with lots of high frequency content.
Set the stylus force at the minimum that will keep the cartridge tracking.
Adjust anti skate for equal mistracking in left and right.
Adjust stylus force for optimum.

The best way is with an LP with test tones and run the signal through an O-Scope.
Adjust anti-skate for equal amplitude and equal visible distortion.

[jrhymeammo]

Well, I could never get that thing to work on my deck so I was hoping you could. That stylus should have at least 500 hours left so it cant be too bad. I've also looked at it with a microscope(right before I sent it off), and everything looked good. Grado is supposed to be able to track at 1.0 gram, but I dont think that's cpapable with our sub $1000 deck/arm.

One thing though..
Just because you set your counter-weight to 1.5g, it doesnt mean it is applying force at 1.5. The weight differences in headshells and cartridges will affect the result. The best thing to do is to get a cheap VTF scale made by Shure.

If you can get a test LP like the one JoeE mentioned, then you should find out more info.

Best of Luck to ya.

[Lo-Fi]

Hmmmmmmmm.... I wish you screwed something up so I could help..... LOL.

Ok, I'll probably get one of those test lp thingy's in the near future. This anti-skate problem is not that bad, it seems bad on a few records but behaves perfectly normal on most.

Next up is building a butt ugly RCM

As promised a pic!

[royphil345]

Thanks for the pic!!! Nice lookin' table for about $200.00.

Did you use some sort of tool to set the overhang / align the Grado? That would improve tracking some if you didn't... The inner and outer edges of a record have the most tracking error (needle not quite parallel with the groove walls). If your overhang is set wrong (cartridge mounted too far back or forward in the headshell), it may be contributing to this problem at the beginning of records. A properly aligned cartridge will sound better too.

When I aligned the cartridge on my Technics, the Mobile-Fidelity Geo-Disc I usually use didn't seem to agree at all with the overhang guage that came with the table. The cartridge could not be aligned properly using the Geo-Disc because I couldn't slide the cartridge far enough forward. I ended up using the Technics overhang guage instead. Your table sure seems like an exact copy of the Technics as far as tonearm / headshell size and placement... Overhang is probably standard on these DJ tables to allow for the use of DJ carts with integrated headshells / non-adjustable overhang. Perhaps the Technics SL-1200MKII overhang gauge would be the thing to use for your table if it didn't come with a gauge. KAB has them for $1.50. Listed under sound accessories / original headshell towards the middle of the page. http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm

[Lo-Fi]

Perhaps the Technics SL-1200MKII overhang gauge would be the thing to use for your table if it didn't come with a gauge. KAB has them for $1.50. Listed under sound accessories / original headshell towards the middle of the page. http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm

Thanks, I'm on it.

[lakeside70]

You sound like you aren't a complete newbie at this but keep in mind the AT has a built in phono preamp. It probably has a bypass or on/off switch, if the built in phono stage is on you must use a regular AUX input. If you can bypass it, then you can use your receivers phono stage. It would be interesting to compare the two paths to see which sounds better. Have fun!

you touch on an issue that i'm currently having. i have a stanton str8-80 that i recently found out has a preamp inside. i bought a phono preamp not knowing this and was wondering if setting the TT to the "phono" setting would bypass the internal preamp.
as well, this table doesn't have a grounding wire, can i assume its internally grounded?

[Lo-Fi]

you touch on an issue that i'm currently having. i have a stanton str8-80 that i recently found out has a preamp inside. i bought a phono preamp not knowing this and was wondering if setting the TT to the "phono" setting would bypass the internal preamp.
as well, this table doesn't have a grounding wire, can i assume its internally grounded?

I have mine set to phono and it goes to the phono inputs on my reciever. Mine also has no external ground wire but the sound is clean.