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Thread: LP cleaner

  1. #1
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    LP cleaner

    I'm asking about those nitty gritty things. What are they exactly?
    Is it just a vacuum with a rotary platform?
    I think that they are sorta expensive...you guys think it would be possible for me to connect a vacuum cleaner to the end of a box with a rotary platform? Would the vacuum power be too strong? will that damage my records?

  2. #2
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92135011
    I'm asking about those nitty gritty things. What are they exactly?
    Is it just a vacuum with a rotary platform?
    I think that they are sorta expensive...you guys think it would be possible for me to connect a vacuum cleaner to the end of a box with a rotary platform? Would the vacuum power be too strong? will that damage my records?
    Really I personally think they're a scam at least for the money. I remember reading that Rega believes you should never clean LP's. Can't find it on their site. Why not use some cleaning solution and a silk cloth(or the kind you clean the lenses of glasses).

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    Is that it? cleaner and wipe will do the job?
    My old man can get a hold of disposable lens wipes for free.
    All I need is the solution? What brand is good? I just started spinning only a couple weeks ago and its great...except that some of the lps have oil residue and small specks of dust that I just cant get out with the brush.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
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    Nitty Gritty

    I own a Nitty Gritty 1.0 machine for $253

    It is essentially a wet-vac for records. You place cleaning solution on the vacuum slot brush, and a manual brush. Rotate the record with a great deal of fluid. Flip the record, repeat. Then you spin the record across the vacuum, and it cleans off the fluid and dirt.

    I hand clean first, but the machine extracts the junk from the deep grooves that hand cleaning doesn't.

    I will not buy cleaning fluid from NG or anyone else.

    I make my own:

    4 parts distilled water
    1 part alcohol
    1 pin drop of dishwashing liquid to break the surface tension.

    There is a night and day improvement with the N-G machine, or a VPI for that matter. I have gone through 200 lp's with this, and I have 100% poof to myself, and all of my friends that the machine is completely effective and totally useful. Hand cleaning did remove about 80% of noise and contaminates, but the machine clean really opened up the detail, treble and other fine points. This is about the farthest thing from a scam there is.

    NOT to clean records is complete rubbish. That is the worst advice I have ever heard in my life. You do NOT want contaminates built up and ground in. Contaminates make noise at the least, or dull the sound, and can damage the record and stylus.

    CLEAN those records.
    Last edited by Sealed; 04-07-2004 at 11:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    I own a Nitty Gritty 1.0 machine for $253

    It is essentially a wet-vac for records. You place cleaning solution on the vacuum slot brush, and a manual brush. Rotate the record with a great deal of fluid. Flip the record, repeat. Then you spin the record across the vacuum, and it cleans off the fluid and dirt.

    I hand clean first, but the machine extracts the junk from the deep grooves that hand cleaning doesn't.

    I will not buy cleaning fluid from NG or anyone else.

    I make my own:

    4 parts distilled water
    1 part alcohol
    1 pin drop of dishwashing liquid to break the surface tension.

    There is a night and day improvement with the N-G machine, or a VPI for that matter. I have gone through 200 lp's with this, and I have 100% poof to myself, and all of my friends that the machine is completely effective and totally useful. Hand cleaning did remove about 80% of noise and contaminates, but the machine clean really opened up the detail, treble and other fine points. This is about the farthest thing from a scam there is.

    NOT to clean records is complete rubbish. That is the worst advice I have ever heard in my life. You do NOT want contaminates built up and ground in. Contaminates make noise at the least, or dull the sound, and can damage the record and stylus.

    CLEAN those records.
    Agree completely.

    Rega believes that the stylus will push away dust while the record is playing. As far as I'm aware, they are the only turntable/arm/cartridge manufacturer that is in left field on this issue. They also believe that an arm should not have VTA adjustment features but instead the cartridge should be properly mated to the arm... which is why Rega cartridges fit the Rega arms so well. They believe VTA adjustability sacrifices rigidity. In other words, they have some screwy ideas about analog playback, particularly for a company that specializes in it. But you have to admire them for sticking to their guns. They make neither a VTA adjustable arm nor a record cleaning machine. They waited several years before introducing a CD player. At least they have their integrity.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
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    Rega

    Quote Originally Posted by rb122
    Agree completely.

    Rega believes that the stylus will push away dust while the record is playing. As far as I'm aware, they are the only turntable/arm/cartridge manufacturer that is in left field on this issue. They also believe that an arm should not have VTA adjustment features but instead the cartridge should be properly mated to the arm... which is why Rega cartridges fit the Rega arms so well. They believe VTA adjustability sacrifices rigidity. In other words, they have some screwy ideas about analog playback, particularly for a company that specializes in it. But you have to admire them for sticking to their guns. They make neither a VTA adjustable arm nor a record cleaning machine. They waited several years before introducing a CD player. At least they have their integrity.
    Rega knows what they are doing when it comes to analog. Even the P-2 is a cracking good little deck, the P-3 with the right bits is just top shelf.

    But for them to claim the stylus moves dust (like a snow plow?) is irresponsible!

    Dust, dirt and contaminates are like microscopic boulders, sandpaper if you will that fills in microgrooves like landfill. The stylus rides over gravel it's like running your car on it's rims alone.

    The audible effects of cleaning is incredible! Getting rid of noise is only part of it. If the contaminates are so small they are in the grooves, the stylus can't just plow them out. this increases friction and wear of both Lp and stylus---simple physical mechanics.

    Does shovelling the sidewalk free of snow clean sand out of cracks? NO WAY!

    A proper hand cleaning with generous fluid and a machine clean is a tried and true method, and will allow the best possible listening experiance.

    I suppose by Rega's statement, the laser pickup simply "burns away" grease and fingerprints when it reads a cd...oooh! Self cleaning Lp's and cd's!!!! [U]NOT. [/U]

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    Nitty Gritty...

    ...yeah, they are essential to getting all the dirt out of the grooves. Before I bought mine (the cheapie 1.0) I was using myriad other cleaning kits. None of the cleaning systems came close to the reduction in surface noise that a wet-vac can do.

    I couldn't see spending 2x or 3x as much for a V.P.I... admittedly, they are a better machine, but I think I'm getting a pretty good percentage of the overall performance. Audio Advisor (IIRC) sells a smaller, revamped N.G. for under $200.

    NOT cleaning records is rediculous.

    Can you make your own? Err... maybe, but I would be willing to bet it wouldn't be worth the hassle. Maybe you can find one on eBay, or the like.

    You will hear a big difference, I would save if necessary.

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    from the looks of it, the nitty gritty seems to just be a box with a slit that has a vacuum underneath. I could buy those vacuum slot brushes from them and the rest I could make myself. Then make a place that the vacuum cleaner could attach every time I wanted to clean. Except, Im almost certain that my vacuum cleaner is much more powerful than that of the nitty gritty. Would that damage anything?

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
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    Vpi

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy C
    ...yeah, they are essential to getting all the dirt out of the grooves. Before I bought mine (the cheapie 1.0) I was using myriad other cleaning kits. None of the cleaning systems came close to the reduction in surface noise that a wet-vac can do.

    I couldn't see spending 2x or 3x as much for a V.P.I... admittedly, they are a better machine, but I think I'm getting a pretty good percentage of the overall performance. Audio Advisor (IIRC) sells a smaller, revamped N.G. for under $200.

    NOT cleaning records is rediculous.

    Can you make your own? Err... maybe, but I would be willing to bet it wouldn't be worth the hassle. Maybe you can find one on eBay, or the like.

    You will hear a big difference, I would save if necessary.
    The automatic NG and VPI are nice luxury items. I suppose if I had hundreds, or thousands more LP's, the auto feature would save a lot of time. I can't justify an automatic machine, based on the manual cleaning, and the superb job the NG 1.0 does.

    I think a simple vacuum assembly in a box could be made if you are so inclined. Ideally, I'd like something that evenly cleans and vacuums both sides at once.

  10. #10
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92135011
    from the looks of it, the nitty gritty seems to just be a box with a slit that has a vacuum underneath. I could buy those vacuum slot brushes from them and the rest I could make myself. Then make a place that the vacuum cleaner could attach every time I wanted to clean. Except, Im almost certain that my vacuum cleaner is much more powerful than that of the nitty gritty. Would that damage anything?
    I'm going with Rega on this one. The sound on vinyl is on the sides right - so whether there is a bit of dirt the tip of the stylus is never going to touch it anyway...at least that was Rega's thinking if memory serves. Surface dust would be picked up by the tylus - then you blow it off the stylus. I believe Rega dislikes leaving ANY chemical contaminant on the vinyl which every cleaning agent even relatively benign ones will do.

    I suppose if you're buying LPs from Garage sales the machine would help but i tried it at soundhounds before and ater and it made no difference to the sound.

    I doubt they hurt anything but they are certainly a complete rippoff price wise costing more than the Rega 2 or 3??? If yo insist on them that's fine I'm not saying they don't work or can't work...my experience is far smaller than people on this forum but then check out UHF magazine. They had a way to build the machine for cheap that supposedly is as good as the best rigs out there. It was issue 58 "Build your own machines to clean LP's." Still I think it runs a couple of hundred Canadian. If you want to reduce static use non cented Bounce Dryer sheets.

    And I would not dismiss Rega's view out of hand...they probably make the best rigs for the money going. Maybe Rega is simply not out to hose people with unecessary gadgets - green pens anyone?

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    DMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I'm going with Rega on this one. The sound on vinyl is on the sides right - so whether there is a bit of dirt the tip of the stylus is never going to touch it anyway...at least that was Rega's thinking if memory serves. Surface dust would be picked up by the tylus - then you blow it off the stylus. I believe Rega dislikes leaving ANY chemical contaminant on the vinyl which every cleaning agent even relatively benign ones will do.

    I suppose if you're buying LPs from Garage sales the machine would help but i tried it at soundhounds before and ater and it made no difference to the sound.

    I doubt they hurt anything but they are certainly a complete rippoff price wise costing more than the Rega 2 or 3??? If yo insist on them that's fine I'm not saying they don't work or can't work...my experience is far smaller than people on this forum but then check out UHF magazine. They had a way to build the machine for cheap that supposedly is as good as the best rigs out there. It was issue 58 "Build your own machines to clean LP's." Still I think it runs a couple of hundred Canadian. If you want to reduce static use non cented Bounce Dryer sheets.

    And I would not dismiss Rega's view out of hand...they probably make the best rigs for the money going. Maybe Rega is simply not out to hose people with unecessary gadgets - green pens anyone?
    The vacuum machines won't always make a noticeable difference on every LP each and every time. But if you want to keep your records in pristine condition over time, a vacuum machine is essential. And the Record Doctor is hundreds less than a P2. They do get expensive if you want additional convenience such as the Nitty Gritty Mini-Pro 2 that I use. It cleans both sides of the LP at once but it doesn't clean any better than the Record Doctor - just faster.

    As Sealed said, microscopic dust and dirt gets in the grooves and then is fused to the soft vinyl by the very hard stylus. Simple physics. If you don't get all of that dirt out, over time you'll get those horrid clicks and pops we dislike so much as tiny pieces of vinyl are essentially eroded. I own hundreds of LP's that I've had for many years and they are pristine sounding and I've brought previously believed dead records back to life, thanks to a regular cleaning regimen that includes a vac. I swear by it. I'd go further and say that anyone not using one regularly is doing their vinyl (and their ears!) a grave disservice. Ask around; nobody but Rega believes the theory that all the dust is picked up by the stylus and LP's don't need cleaning. Your idea of leaving contaminants on the record is precisely the reason (well, one of many) why the cleaning solution needs to be vacuumed off rather than wiped off. But I also have no doubt that if one were handy they could probably build a vacuum machine for much less.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    The Nitty Gritty's a LOT more than just a vacuum! As others have pointed out, the main reason for having a wet-vac for your LPs is to basically maintain your albums in pristine condition. Some vinyl addicts that I know choose to play back their LPs without a dust cover on the turntable because in their opinion, static builds up quicker with the dust cover present. For them, the wet-vac is an essential part of their basic maintenance regimen.

    I'm not sure that you need a full blown wet-vac like a Nitty Gritty, but it definitely is effective if you're absolutely obsessive about maintaining your LPs in top condition. A wet-vac will not magically resurrect worn records or abused used LPs with embedded gunk, but they will at least keep them from getting worse.

    Whether or not it's worth the price is entirely up to you. My cleaning regimen is pretty simple -- with new or used LPs that I'm playing back for the first time, I use a Discwasher D4 to do a simple first pass that gets rid of any oily surface contaminants. Thereafter, I use a carbon fiber brush before every playback. I only go beyond this with the rarest albums in my collection (i.e. half-speed masters and direct discs), where I'll take them to a local record store that has a cleaning machine and pay them to do some deep cleaning. In the past, I've used the LAST record preservatives (it really works at reducing surface noise) and their deep cleaning solution.
    Last edited by Woochifer; 04-08-2004 at 06:13 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Really I personally think they're a scam at least for the money. I remember reading that Rega believes you should never clean LP's. Can't find it on their site. Why not use some cleaning solution and a silk cloth(or the kind you clean the lenses of glasses).
    If they really believe this, then they're going against basically the entire vinyl community. I don't know anyone who recommends against cleaning their LPs. Just letting things go is the quickest way to prematurely wear down an LP. The main reason I would not go along with this is because even brand new LPs have surface contaminants that are leftover from the manufacturing process. These oily substances attract dirt, and while Rega might believe that a stylus can by itself clean a vinyl record (and in my experience that is nonsense), that same stylus can just as easily embed dirt and dust into the groove. Once those contaminants are embedded into the grooves, then they are very difficult to remove.

    Believe me, you DO NOT want to use a cleaning cloth to wipe your LPs. Back when the LP was the dominant format, cleaning cloths were indeed sold at mass market stores (and usually shunned by hi-fi specialty stores), but they did not work at all. They did a great job at pushing dirt around, but they did an equally good job at pressing gunk deep into the grooves and adding their own noise into the mix. A cloth cleaning rag like what gets used for eyeglasses will also deposit its own fibers and dust into grooves. And I've had LPs ruined after cleaning passes using cloths like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I suppose if you're buying LPs from Garage sales the machine would help but i tried it at soundhounds before and ater and it made no difference to the sound.
    You got it reverse. A wet-vac like the Nitty Gritty is the best tool for maintaining an LP in mint condition. Things like normal wear, damage caused by worn or misaligned needles, deeply embedded dirt, etc. cannot be undone by anything. What a wet-vac will do is wash away the oily contaminants that attract and trap dirt, and basically keep an LP is near new condition. A couple of the high end stores that I used to frequent had half-speed master and direct disc LPs that they demoed constantly. Even after hundreds of playbacks, those demo LPs showed minimal surface noise because they were good pressings to begin with, and they were cleaned regularly. For dirty used LPs, a record vacuum will help eliminate a lot of the surface dirt but not necessarily the deeply embedded stuff; and while it probably won't affect the pops and clicks too much, it can lower the surface noise and take out a lot of the gunk that can prematurely wear down a stylus.

    If you play back your LPs on a turntable with no dust cover (to reduce static accumulation), a record cleaning machine warrants stronger consideration than if you use a dust cover and are diligent about how you handle the LPs. A carbon fiber brush is good enough for most cleaning chores if you take reasonably good care of your LPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    If you want to reduce static use non cented Bounce Dryer sheets.
    Have you actually tried this before? Bounce sheets have waxy substances on the surface that are heat activated, and the sheets themselves are pretty abrasive (at least compared to softer cloths). Rubbing that on an LP would embed all kinds of residues and fibers into the grooves.


    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    And I would not dismiss Rega's view out of hand...they probably make the best rigs for the money going. Maybe Rega is simply not out to hose people with unecessary gadgets - green pens anyone?
    Or maybe they just got it wrong. Comparing record cleaning machines to green pens is ridiculous because products like the Nitty Gritty do exactly what they their manufacturers say they do (whether or not they're overpriced is another discussion altogether), and green pens are nothing more than subjectivist delusion.
    Last edited by Woochifer; 04-08-2004 at 06:19 PM.

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    Sealed,
    you mentioned that you made your own cleaning solution.
    What kind of alcohol you use? just the normal rubbing alcohol? or do you have to go out and buy some special kind?

    Looks like UHF 58 does have detailed instructions on how to make your own cleaning machine except that I would have to actually buy that issue....

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    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    If you play back your LPs on a turntable with no dust cover (to reduce static accumulation), a record cleaning machine warrants stronger consideration than if you use a dust cover and are diligent about how you handle the LPs. A carbon fiber brush is good enough for most cleaning chores if you take reasonably good care of your LPs.
    Agreed...not even sure Rega likes the brush...I notice I could not find any of their statements on these issues on their site - hmm. I also notice that their firm belief in glass platters is no more. My Nad and the Rega 2 are MDF. SO maybe they changed their mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Have you actually tried this before? Bounce sheets have waxy substances on the surface that are heat activated, and the sheets themselves are pretty abrasive (at least compared to softer cloths). Rubbing that on an LP would embed all kinds of residues and fibers into the grooves.
    Not rubbing it on the disc...keeping it near you collection...of records...not touching the actual LP. Supposedly to get rid of static.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Or maybe they just got it wrong.
    Or maybe they got it right - maybe the subjective delusion is everyone buying these machines. After all some of us think Separates and Integrateds are much superior amplifiers than are receivers. Hmm...delusion is subjective it would appear.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
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    dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I'm going with Rega on this one.
    --That's idiotic. I can tell you have very little vinyl experiance. Dirt and contaminates get into cracks, that means the stylus cannot read it! The sound is veiled, and the record sounds worse. Rega is on crack with this line. Good thing that I live near them, I am calling them when they open today. This is the singular. most retarded, msiguided, idiotic, foolish and plain dumb advice I have ever read in my entire life on this site, or anywhere else.

    And I would not dismiss Rega's view out of hand...they probably make the best rigs for the money going. Maybe Rega is simply not out to hose people with unecessary gadgets - green pens anyone?
    You have too much blind faith in Rega. They make a good product, sure. They aren't the best, and they do have competition in music hall and project and others. I TOTALLY DISMISS REGAS IDEA ON NON CLEANING RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW. IT IS COMPLETELY AS WRONG AS BEASTIALITY!

    That's melodramatic sure, but Regas philosophy is DEAD wrong.

    I heave reason to believe RGA, that parts of your post are dubious at best for the sake of argument. I have owned an NG-1.0 for months now. On records that are salvageable, it make a HUGE difference in sound. I find it dubious that you just-now-so-happen-to-own a nitty gritty, tried it extensively and it had no effect. Rega is the lone voice on the entire planet on this issue. And they are wrong.
    Last edited by Sealed; 04-08-2004 at 11:35 PM.

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    agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by DMK
    The vacuum machines won't always make a noticeable difference on every LP each and every time. But if you want to keep your records in pristine condition over time, a vacuum machine is essential. And the Record Doctor is hundreds less than a P2. They do get expensive if you want additional convenience such as the Nitty Gritty Mini-Pro 2 that I use. It cleans both sides of the LP at once but it doesn't clean any better than the Record Doctor - just faster.

    As Sealed said, microscopic dust and dirt gets in the grooves and then is fused to the soft vinyl by the very hard stylus. Simple physics.
    --True, preventative cleaning amelorates this and helps keep the LP clean and quiet for years.

    If you don't get all of that dirt out, over time you'll get those horrid clicks and pops we dislike so much as tiny pieces of vinyl are essentially eroded. I own hundreds of LP's that I've had for many years and they are pristine sounding and I've brought previously believed dead records back to life, thanks to a regular cleaning regimen that includes a vac. I swear by it. I'd go further and say that anyone not using one regularly is doing their vinyl (and their ears!) a grave disservice. Ask around; nobody but Rega believes the theory that all the dust is picked up by the stylus and LP's don't need cleaning. Your idea of leaving contaminants on the record is precisely the reason (well, one of many) why the cleaning solution needs to be vacuumed off rather than wiped off. But I also have no doubt that if one were handy they could probably build a vacuum machine for much less.
    Regas philosophy on this is completely wrong. Not cleaning an Lp is wrong. Sure, I have a few lp's that are old that never got cleaned, the clicks and pops remain, as well as a few crackles. But I have some recordings from 1957 that were kept clean, and the meager amount of dust on it (due to the fact it was rarely if ever played dirty) was removed in cleaning.

    By regas philosophy, the record will wear faster, the dirt will get ground in faster, and the sound will deteriorate.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92135011
    Sealed,
    you mentioned that you made your own cleaning solution.
    What kind of alcohol you use? just the normal rubbing alcohol? or do you have to go out and buy some special kind?

    Looks like UHF 58 does have detailed instructions on how to make your own cleaning machine except that I would have to actually buy that issue....
    I use denatured alcohol off the shelf. I have almost pure (90% +) pharmicuitical grade that I use to clean contacts and circuit boards. This is overkill though, and expensive.

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    "denatured" alcohol???
    Whats that? I have never heard of it before. Sounds like something that WOULD be drinkable but then someone screwed up and it can kill people now. Where would I be able to get this stuff?

  20. #20
    Forum Regular Sealed's Avatar
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    alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by 92135011
    "denatured" alcohol???
    Whats that? I have never heard of it before. Sounds like something that WOULD be drinkable but then someone screwed up and it can kill people now. Where would I be able to get this stuff?
    This alcohol is made from wood, not grains. It is toxic to drink, anyone that does has a seriious death wish. This stuff is available at any general store. Rubbing alcohol works fine.

  21. #21
    DMK
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    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by Sealed
    Regas philosophy on this is completely wrong. Not cleaning an Lp is wrong. Sure, I have a few lp's that are old that never got cleaned, the clicks and pops remain, as well as a few crackles. But I have some recordings from 1957 that were kept clean, and the meager amount of dust on it (due to the fact it was rarely if ever played dirty) was removed in cleaning.

    By regas philosophy, the record will wear faster, the dirt will get ground in faster, and the sound will deteriorate.
    The fastest way to ruin a record is not to clean it. The best way to clean it is with a vacuum machine. The Disc Doctor solution and brushes is supposed to do a good job but I found it a sloppy mess to deal with.

    Some years ago I bought a batch of old Duke Ellington records on RCA from the 1950's. They had a lot of static and clicks/pops. With my cleaning regimen, I reduced the static significantly. But the problem is the clicks and pops. Once they're in, they're in. A vac is the absolute best way to keep them out. On the flip side (pun intended), I have records that have been played hundreds of times with no easily audible degradation. Yes, I'm anal about record care. It's necessary in order for vinyl to maintain its crown as THE superior home playback medium.

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    RGA, I think...

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I'm going with Rega on this one. The sound on vinyl is on the sides right - so whether there is a bit of dirt the tip of the stylus is never going to touch it anyway...at least that was Rega's thinking if memory serves. Surface dust would be picked up by the tylus - then you blow it off the stylus. I believe Rega dislikes leaving ANY chemical contaminant on the vinyl which every cleaning agent even relatively benign ones will do.

    I suppose if you're buying LPs from Garage sales the machine would help but i tried it at soundhounds before and ater and it made no difference to the sound.

    I doubt they hurt anything but they are certainly a complete rippoff price wise costing more than the Rega 2 or 3??? If yo insist on them that's fine I'm not saying they don't work or can't work...my experience is far smaller than people on this forum but then check out UHF magazine. They had a way to build the machine for cheap that supposedly is as good as the best rigs out there. It was issue 58 "Build your own machines to clean LP's." Still I think it runs a couple of hundred Canadian. If you want to reduce static use non cented Bounce Dryer sheets.

    And I would not dismiss Rega's view out of hand...they probably make the best rigs for the money going. Maybe Rega is simply not out to hose people with unecessary gadgets - green pens anyone?
    Your "going with Rega on this one" has more to do with A.N.'s loose affiliation with Rega, rather than actual experience :*)

    Maybe there is a misunderstanding... I have not read all the posts, but I don't think anyone here would recommend the N.G. wet-vac EVERYTIME you spin the record - not necessary. BUT - many of us get our LPs through record stores, and, for obvious reasons, they can't clean every album... some of them have a lot of dust/greasy fingerprints on them. None of this is beneficial to a cart - which, by the way, reads the sides of the groove, not the very bottom.

    Now - your experience at Soundhounds... maybe that particular record was already fairly clean... no need for the wet system - a simple carbon fiber brush from AudioQuest (or possibly nothing at all) will be fine. There is no reason to have the needle push around dirt... unless you want to hear excessive clicks and pops.

    I have LPs that are over 30 years old, and I have been cleaning them for almost 25 years - they are still in excellent condition. Again... no need to play dirty records.

    P.S. - By the way... what ever happened to the Boston A-150s? Were they the original series?

    P.S.S. - I hate the way the entire previous message body is repeated...

  23. #23
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Agreed...not even sure Rega likes the brush...I notice I could not find any of their statements on these issues on their site - hmm. I also notice that their firm belief in glass platters is no more. My Nad and the Rega 2 are MDF. SO maybe they changed their mind.
    I have a very hard time believing that Rega would recommend just letting albums go because any surface contaminants can easily get permanently embedded into the grooves if you just play them as is over and over. With a typical stylus force of 1.5 grams, that's still a lot of weight getting directed into a small point. With a pliable surface like an LP and all the narrow crevices cut into that groove, that kind of mass can basically easily wedge all that dirt sitting on the surface deep into the record itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Not rubbing it on the disc...keeping it near you collection...of records...not touching the actual LP. Supposedly to get rid of static.
    Thanks for clarifying. It just seemed odd to use a Bounce sheet for cleaning purposes. Plenty of other anti-static options out there for record storage, including anti-static sleeves. Would seem more effective given that those have the added benefit of being less abrasive than normal paper sleeves.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Or maybe they got it right - maybe the subjective delusion is everyone buying these machines. After all some of us think Separates and Integrateds are much superior amplifiers than are receivers. Hmm...delusion is subjective it would appear.
    Do you really think that they are right just because they say so? (And given that you haven't found this info on their website, I'm not so sure that they would make that kind of recommendation in the first place.) There are definite differences between albums that are cleaned regularly and those that are not, and the difference is most notable when you get into the rhelm of repeated listenings. Albums that have been regularly cleaned generally have lower surface noise and fewer pops and clicks develop, than those albums that have let dust accumulate without cleaning. I don't see how that's delusional or subjective, because the benefits of regular cleaning can be proven.

    If Rega thinks that the function of a stylus is to push dust around, then they really need to do more listening. When a stylus accumulates gunk on the tip, that leads to distortion, break ups in the highs, and other audible changes to the tonal characteristics.

  24. #24
    RGA
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    Wooch just stating what they said...you say they are wrong fine - I mean they only make some of the best budget tables going - so naturally they know nothing about LP care? If there is proof other than lots of claims great. Lots of people make claims about cables and amplifiers too...you seem to pick only what you wish to. Any opinion different from yours is wrong - well other people have different experiences.

    Never said it couldn't work...just didn't in my ONE case - which I already said was perhaps irrelevant. I stand by the fact that $800.00Cdn for the machine is an utter rippoff whether it cleans both sized and makes you coffee or not. If people are going to get one then make it. Let us not support the rippoff artists selling $30.00 worth of low suction Vacuum cleaning. I buy my LP's from a used record store - one of the more impressive ones around(there are actually two gigantic ones on the same street). I don't know what people do with their records but in two years I have not needed to clean a single one - except one that Soundhounds cleaned...visibly it looked great still had the clicks pops galore(could have been a bad disc(Enya - Orinoco Flow album). I had people saying you should clean a brand new LP as well. Well I have bought several and that's as bogus as a three dollar coin.

    Nitty Gritty - looks cheaply built - if the price matches it might be a good deal. I should think the manual one should be well under $100.00Cdn. Somehow, I doubt it.


    Jimmy C

    Audio Note's assessment I don't know - the only affiliation is getting Rega Arms upgraded. I believe there are a few out there utilizing the Rega arms.

  25. #25
    DMK
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    - I mean they only make some of the best budget tables going - so naturally they know nothing about LP care? .
    Yeah, that's what's so bizarre about their statement! They do make some of the best budget tables around and my jaw hit the floor when I read their idea of LP "cleaning". It's like Chevy saying there's no need to change your oil because the occasional addition of a quart of new oil will absorb the impurities of the old. Weird! But Rega doesn't believe in adjustable VTA or any other arm adjustment, either. But in another sense, all of this fits into their "plug and play" philosophy - nothing more difficult than it needs to be. And as I said, their integrity can't be faulted even if their idealism doesn't coincide with reality.

    BTW, looks are obviously deceiving with the Nitty Gritty. Mine is going on five years old and has never broken down or failed to properly do its job. I can appreciate that you think it's a ripoff because it is expensive but it's paid for itself many times over for me. There's little else in this world that I'm able to say that about.

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