LP cleaner

[Woochifer]

Wooch just stating what they said...you say they are wrong fine - I mean they only make some of the best budget tables going - so naturally they know nothing about LP care? If there is proof other than lots of claims great. Lots of people make claims about cables and amplifiers too...you seem to pick only what you wish to. Any opinion different from yours is wrong - well other people have different experiences.

No one's denying that Rega makes fine turntables and tonearms. If true (and again, I have my doubts about this), then their claim about record cleaning is pretty much a lone voice in the entire audio community. But, considering your limited experience with the vinyl format, you might want to also pay attention to the many voices on this thread who have had many years of experience dealing with the peculiarities of vinyl. Nobody else who's responded agrees with this assertion, so that should at least tell you something.

There's plenty of disagreement about how frequently you need to clean records and the best method of doing so, but I've never met anyone who advocates letting records accumulate dust and dirt without any kind of cleaning whatsoever. If you want to blindly follow this advice, then you're more than welcome to. But, if your prized records deteriorate prematurely, then you'll have your answer as to who was right.

I pick on your comparisons because you fail to see how one claim (about record cleaning) can be reliably proven, while the other (regarding amps, cables, and green pens) cannot. Claims about cables and amps cannot be reliably proven because you have no consistently replicatable basis of comparison other than first person real time impressions that rely on differing degrees of auditory memory, which can always be disputed. If you want to gauge the effects of record cleaning, it's easy to prove because the effects can be reliably replicated. You just do a reference recording of two brand new LPs (dubbing onto tape or digital format), let one collect dust and subject the other one to a diligent cleaning regimen. Give both LPs an equal number of playbacks on the same turntable, and then do a second reference recording of each LP. Comparing the reference recordings, whether that be through listening or measuring, will give you a very accurate before and after picture. I have over 100 tape recordings of LPs that I dubbed when they were brand new, and just comparing the change in surface noise of the albums that I diligently cared for versus those that I neglected is plenty striking.

Never said it couldn't work...just didn't in my ONE case - which I already said was perhaps irrelevant. I stand by the fact that $800.00Cdn for the machine is an utter rippoff whether it cleans both sized and makes you coffee or not. If people are going to get one then make it. Let us not support the rippoff artists selling $30.00 worth of low suction Vacuum cleaning. I buy my LP's from a used record store - one of the more impressive ones around(there are actually two gigantic ones on the same street). I don't know what people do with their records but in two years I have not needed to clean a single one - except one that Soundhounds cleaned...visibly it looked great still had the clicks pops galore(could have been a bad disc(Enya - Orinoco Flow album). I had people saying you should clean a brand new LP as well. Well I have bought several and that's as bogus as a three dollar coin.

How's cleaning new LPs advice bogus? Check the manufacturing process on a vinyl record. The process leaves residues that attract and trap dirt. The reasons for cleaning a brand new LP are the same reasons why you shouldn't leave fingerprints on your albums. Plus, with a lot of albums, they're not exactly clean when you pull them out of the sleeve for the first time. Your points seem to ignore what several of the other posts on this thread have repeatedly stated -- a record cleaner DOES NOT undo wear and damage already done to an LP. What it DOES do is MAINTAIN an album in pristine (or existing) condition, and clean up the kinds of gunk that can prematurely wear down a stylus and change the tonal characteristics of the LP playback (something as simple as accumulation at the tip of the stylus changes its shape and mass, which fundamentally affects its capabilities).

You also need to consider how often an album gets played back. Like I said, the high end store where my friend used to work had a collection of direct discs and half-speed masters that they played constantly. Even after hundreds of playbacks on turntables with no dust covers, those albums were still just as silent as when they were first opened because the store did a wet-vac pass before every playback. Diligent cleaning (and a properly setup turntable) is the ONLY way that you can maintain an album that gets played that often. If you've never cleaned a new album before, then you have absolutely no basis for saying that advice is "bogus as a three dollar coin." I suppose if you only play an album once every other month or so, then cleaning might not make a difference, but if you're at all serious about vinyl and use that as the primary playback medium for your most frequently played music, then I don't see how you can believe that there's no difference between albums that get no cleaning versus those that get diligent cleaning.

And how's it a "FACT" that a record vac is a ripoff? That's just your opinion and nothing more. And where do you come up with this notion of $30 worth of vacuum? Is it a fact that you can backup, or just rhetorical fiction?

[Woochifer]

Yeah, that's what's so bizarre about their statement! They do make some of the best budget tables around and my jaw hit the floor when I read their idea of LP "cleaning". It's like Chevy saying there's no need to change your oil because the occasional addition of a quart of new oil will absorb the impurities of the old. Weird! But Rega doesn't believe in adjustable VTA or any other arm adjustment, either. But in another sense, all of this fits into their "plug and play" philosophy - nothing more difficult than it needs to be. And as I said, their integrity can't be faulted even if their idealism doesn't coincide with reality.

Well, variable VTA versus fixed VTA at least is something where you got plenty of advocates on both sides. My turntable has a headshell with an adjustable VTA, but the manufacturer also sells a fixed angle headshell for those who prefer that approach.

I've never encountered anybody who says that letting albums collect dust is preferable to cleaning them, and that a stylus pushing dust around the grooves is the best way to maintain an album (I mean, when you get enough dust accumulation on the stylus, it creates all kinds of distortion, sibilance, and other abnormalities). There's plenty of disagreement over how often you should do it, or how you should do it, but my impression's always been near universal consensus that cleaning at some level is needed to maintain LPs, especially ones that are played frequently. Over the years I've used the Allsop Orbitrac, Discwasher D4, and Nitty Gritty and Keith Monks record vacs. Nowadays, I mostly just use a carbon fiber brush (partly because cleaners like the D4 really wear down turntable belts, and those are not always easy to replace).

[hifitommy]

for the record, let me say that i am pro RCM but use sink methods (search these methods and others at audioasylum.com in the vinyl asylum).

the brush i recommend at this time is this:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/296270.html

search those archives! vaccing the disc after washing and rinse rinse rinsing is a great idea. yeah, i invented a phrase again.

this brush is cheeeeep and really gets into the grooves and theses no doubt that youre in the groove.

no alcohol, and plain old paper towels to dry. but rinse rinse rinsing is a key. i use the sink sprayer and make one hell of a mess but its worth it.

maybe i will repair/modify my record dr II which self destructed its own fan impellers (the bastids want $100 to fixit, NOPE! and the damn thing is put together with GLUE so you CANT fixit urself). i'll just drill a big hole for an outboard vac and put a piece of plexi or masonite on the bottom i bashed in to find out what went wrong.

i truly would benefit from a good working rcm as i have about 5k LPs, and i am NOT gonna stop.

[Sealed]

for the record, let me say that i am pro RCM but use sink methods (search these methods and others at audioasylum.com in the vinyl asylum).

the brush i recommend at this time is this:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/296270.html

search those archives! vaccing the disc after washing and rinse rinse rinsing is a great idea. yeah, i invented a phrase again.

this brush is cheeeeep and really gets into the grooves and theses no doubt that youre in the groove.

no alcohol, and plain old paper towels to dry. but rinse rinse rinsing is a key. i use the sink sprayer and make one hell of a mess but its worth it.

maybe i will repair/modify my record dr II which self destructed its own fan impellers (the bastids want $100 to fixit, NOPE! and the damn thing is put together with GLUE so you CANT fixit urself). i'll just drill a big hole for an outboard vac and put a piece of plexi or masonite on the bottom i bashed in to find out what went wrong.

i truly would benefit from a good working rcm as i have about 5k LPs, and i am NOT gonna stop.

I think the key here is NO, you need not clean an LP each and every time before play, but yes, it should be cleaned.

BTW: how do you use a sink sprayer and not soak the lable?

I prefer using alcohol as it is a mild solvent, but it is more necessary during an initial deep clean than subsequent cleanings.

"Wash, rinse, repeat"

[hifitommy]

just when its needed. routine daily use, just before playing a record, a carbon fiber brush such as the aq should be used to remove the light dust. i usually brush it about 2-3 times, dragging the brush off the edge of the record so as not to leave a line of dust.

believe it ro not, MOST labels are impervious to the water. in the last five years at least, i can remember only one label being affected. i wouldnt be such a proponent of sink cleaning if my experience were otherwise. the pressure of the sink sprayer removes more of the dawn (a tiny drop for both sides, thats plenty) i use with the clothing brush and water.

if, during the drying the record with a paper towel, there is ANY sign of sudsing, the rinse rinse rinsing commences again.

[DMK]

Well, variable VTA versus fixed VTA at least is something where you got plenty of advocates on both sides. My turntable has a headshell with an adjustable VTA, but the manufacturer also sells a fixed angle headshell for those who prefer that approach. ).

It depends on the cartridge and arm - and the listener's ears. Rega cartridges are maximized for Rega arms, of course, and VTA will likely not change the sound. So as I said, they are true to their beliefs. But in many, many applications, no one can argue that VTA adjustment changes the sound of the cartridge. It's up to the listener as to what setting sounds best.

Rega arms are excellent for the money but I doubt anyone would call them the best available. And I can't off the top of my head think of another arm that doesn't have VTA adjustability so while it's true that there are advocates both ways, the consensus of most manufacturers is to offer adjustability. But I find no fault with Rega's approach - particularly since that's the arm I use! OTOH, my Kontrapunkt is screaming for some adjustment and I'm looking very seriously at the Morch DP-6 tonearm. After all, user replaceable armwands means I can easily play with several cartridges at one time! I'm thinking about trying to find a used Shelter and also getting the mothballs off my old Clearaudio Virtuoso.

As for your reply to RGA...well... nothing more needs to be said except I have yet to find one person who has maximized their vinyl playback rig that prefers CD. Maximizing vinyl playback includes LP cleaning.

[RGA]

And how's it a "FACT" that a record vac is a ripoff? That's just your opinion and nothing more. And where do you come up with this notion of $30 worth of vacuum? Is it a fact that you can backup, or just rhetorical fiction?

No the guy who sells then took it apart the parts are under $30.00 and he claimed would take less than an hour for one person to build. (a Manual deivce). Man you must think all items have a 4% mark-up. If it's being sold and it's not marked up 100% AT LEAST from manufacturer to retailer and AGAIN at another 30% AT LEAST from Retailer to Customer then it's bad business. Yes That the $200 Nitty Griity cost the manufactuer $180.00 and the retailer is making $20.00? Dream on.

the UHF issue has a guy who built them and you can too with spare parts you can pick up at a hardware store.

I keep them all in plastic wrap and only buy near mint or better LP's. Perhaps Rega's aguement which is no longer on their site was that if you take care of your discs from day one they should never get to a point where grunge would be an issue and therefore would not need to have a machine applied. I don't know because it's been a long time since I read it (over 2 years ago). But I get mixed messages here. For very light DUST a brush works and rega claimed that playing once through would remove that kind of very light dust. For heavy grunge people here say the cleaner doesn't work ANYWAY. SO we're after something in between which no one can see with the naked eye.

I'll concede that the machine works because people have experience that it does. Get some plastic wraps...good for Baseball card collecing why not vinyl.

Perhaps Rega, and this is my conspiracy theory going, made these comments to help sell turntables. After all LP's are far more of a pain in the ass than CD. So by saying just plug and play and the needle will pick up the dirt makes it SEEM easier for buyers yo get into Vinyl again or for the first time.

I'm skeptical of claims because instead of relying on UHF's sound turntable advice I went with vinyl philes that Cheap turntables are better than ANY CD player. No not so. I suppose if I liked 70s rock my opinion would be different.

[RGA]

just when its needed. routine daily use, just before playing a record, a carbon fiber brush such as the aq should be used to remove the light dust. i usually brush it about 2-3 times, dragging the brush off the edge of the record so as not to leave a line of dust.

believe it ro not, MOST labels are impervious to the water. in the last five years at least, i can remember only one label being affected. i wouldnt be such a proponent of sink cleaning if my experience were otherwise. the pressure of the sink sprayer removes more of the dawn (a tiny drop for both sides, thats plenty) i use with the clothing brush and water.

if, during the drying the record with a paper towel, there is ANY sign of sudsing, the rinse rinse rinsing commences again.

I like that you have come up with a CHEAP alternative - thankfully creativity is not dead. Do you have a cheap vacuum alternative...or do you even feel it's necessary...can you spray out the gunk. You have a kind of High pressure washer idea going here along with dollar store lint brushes. What is all this $3.50 including the claeaning solution. DO you recommend air drying like dishes or hand drying?

[92135011]

that brings up an idea. Instead of sucking the stuff off...is it possible to blow it off?
Such items as an air compressor

[hifitommy]

nevermind.

anyway, using air pressure seems like you could blow abrasive particles accross the surface of the grooves and ostensibly cause damage. EXTRACTING it with a vacuum is more in line with a less damaging scenario. just a lonesome thought.

[Jimmy C]

...you previously stated that a RCM is a ripoff. This may be so, but insane mark-up applies to much of audio. Look at A.N.s top speaker... over $20,000 for a minimally-braced, 8" 2-way! I also remember you saying that it (I think this was the A.N. you were referring to) was the best you have heard, so, therefore it's worth it.

I feel that's what is happening.... I paid $249 for my N.G. 1.0, and feel the sonic benefits are worth it. Geez, that's half the vinyl thing...fun! Scouring a good used record store, finding an an old favorite, cleaning it, etc. Besides, one can afford the RCM when buying $4 LPs...

As far as someone stating a starter table will beat up any CD... well, not sure who told you that. It is VERY software (and equipment) dependant. But, Hell... at least when one goes from a $100 table to a $1000 table, there is a big diff - unlike a similar disparity in CD players, IME.

I'm envisioning my "homebrew" RCM and man, is it cumbersome, half-assed, and ugly...lol.

[Sealed]

...you previously stated that a RCM is a ripoff. This may be so, but insane mark-up applies to much of audio. Look at A.N.s top speaker... over $20,000 for a minimally-braced, 8" 2-way! I also remember you saying that it (I think this was the A.N. you were referring to) was the best you have heard, so, therefore it's worth it.

I feel that's what is happening.... I paid $249 for my N.G. 1.0, and feel the sonic benefits are worth it. Geez, that's half the vinyl thing...fun! Scouring a good used record store, finding an an old favorite, cleaning it, etc. Besides, one can afford the RCM when buying $4 LPs...

As far as someone stating a starter table will beat up any CD... well, not sure who told you that. It is VERY software (and equipment) dependant. But, Hell... at least when one goes from a $100 table to a $1000 table, there is a big diff - unlike a similar disparity in CD players, IME.

I'm envisioning my "homebrew" RCM and man, is it cumbersome, half-assed, and ugly...lol.

I wince at the criminally overpriced products of dubious benefit like $3k cables, $13k mini monitors, $30k cd players...but $253 (my price) for something that lets me listen to music and not dirt? It's WELL worth it.

I met an audio dealer that had things from affordable to "I could buy a house for that much" stuff. He said he'd rather have a decent $700 vinyl rig than any cd player at any price. He had the cd stuff in his shop, but he outright dismissed them in comparision to the Michell orbe, and VPI tables he had.

I have hand-cleaned all my albums then listened. There was still noise evident. After a pass on the N-G 1.0, there was a night and day difference... no if and's or buts. No one can convince me that it isn't extremely effective, and worth the money.

If you are going to do vinyl--do it right. The extra work that vinyl requires is part of what gives it a soul.

Again, this is no different on an absolute scale than keeping cd's free of grease. If it skips...clean it.

[rb122]

[QUOTE=Sealed Again, this is no different on an absolute scale than keeping cd's free of grease. If it skips...clean it.[/QUOTE]

Correct. The only difference is that vinyl requires preventive maintenance. CD's can be cleaned once when they're, say, 10 years old and are restored to their original quality, dubious as that may be.

[hifitommy]

the kabusa.com rcm hooks up to your home shop vac which is way more reliable and replaceable than the $hitigritty units motors. $150 plus your shop vac. a better idea even though it uses NG technology.

rb, CDs are easily cleaned in the sink with a droplet of dawn and water rubbing with your finger center to edge, edge to center while rotating the disc. dry the same way with a towel or paper towel. fingerprints are the most common violator of the surface, people dont seem to think you should wash your hands before handling their CDs as they should and especially important with vinyl records.

[E-Stat]

I've used a VPI HW-16 for over twenty years. It has been virtually trouble free except for needing a new vacuum tube a couple years back as the original finally cracked. I couldn't imagine not having a RCM. Nor could my audio reviewer friends with similar experience. Last night I was spinning the very nicely recorded "ET" soundtrack that I've had for twenty odd years. Still sounds virtually dead quiet despite the fact that I have played the heck out of it.

rw

[Woochifer]

It depends on the cartridge and arm - and the listener's ears. Rega cartridges are maximized for Rega arms, of course, and VTA will likely not change the sound. So as I said, they are true to their beliefs. But in many, many applications, no one can argue that VTA adjustment changes the sound of the cartridge. It's up to the listener as to what setting sounds best.

Rega arms are excellent for the money but I doubt anyone would call them the best available. And I can't off the top of my head think of another arm that doesn't have VTA adjustability so while it's true that there are advocates both ways, the consensus of most manufacturers is to offer adjustability. But I find no fault with Rega's approach - particularly since that's the arm I use! OTOH, my Kontrapunkt is screaming for some adjustment and I'm looking very seriously at the Morch DP-6 tonearm. After all, user replaceable armwands means I can easily play with several cartridges at one time! I'm thinking about trying to find a used Shelter and also getting the mothballs off my old Clearaudio Virtuoso.

I go back and forth on the VTA issue as well. As mentioned, my turntable comes with an adjustable VTA headshell, but a fixed angle headshell is also available. The owner's manual also has a chart with the recommended VTA settings for various cartridge models. I can see the merit of an argument in favor of a more rigid anchoring, though I have noted how much the sound does change with VTA adjustments and can see why manufacturers would want to offer customers that adjustment.

[Woochifer]

No the guy who sells then took it apart the parts are under $30.00 and he claimed would take less than an hour for one person to build. (a Manual deivce). Man you must think all items have a 4% mark-up. If it's being sold and it's not marked up 100% AT LEAST from manufacturer to retailer and AGAIN at another 30% AT LEAST from Retailer to Customer then it's bad business. Yes That the $200 Nitty Griity cost the manufactuer $180.00 and the retailer is making $20.00? Dream on.

4% markup? Where do you get the idea that I believe in that? Please show your work if you really think that my statement points towards that as an end result.

You were saying that $800 for a record vac was a ripoff and that we should all not support ripoff artists by making our own record vacs. ALL I was asking was how you came up with that $30 vacuum figure -- is it something that you have intimate knowledge of or are you just making it up? But, if it's $30 worth of parts, it's basically $30 worth of scrap if you don't have the time, inclination, or handyman acumen to build a homemade record cleaning device. If you think that it's so criminal for the manufacturer and the retailer to maintain the margins that they do, then don't buy their products! $200 for a product that works the way it was intended to work is hardly a ripoff in the audio world.

You were the one that said that even at $100, the Nitty Gritty would be a ripoff. So, what you're then saying is that $30 (or is it $20, who knows, you keep making up numbers as you go) worth of parts getting assembled into a product that sells for $100 is STILL a ripoff? And even if you're correct in asserting that a layman can put something like this together for themselves in one hour, in my line of work, my billing rate is more than $100/hour. In that scenario, I had better enjoy woodworking and assembly because I know I would take a lot more than just one hour to put something like that together. (and even there, some of the parts that are used in those record vacs, like the brushes, are not things that you can just pick up at a local hardware store)

I keep them all in plastic wrap and only buy near mint or better LP's. Perhaps Rega's aguement which is no longer on their site was that if you take care of your discs from day one they should never get to a point where grunge would be an issue and therefore would not need to have a machine applied. I don't know because it's been a long time since I read it (over 2 years ago). But I get mixed messages here. For very light DUST a brush works and rega claimed that playing once through would remove that kind of very light dust. For heavy grunge people here say the cleaner doesn't work ANYWAY. SO we're after something in between which no one can see with the naked eye.

Maybe there's another reason why it's not posted on their website -- it's just plain bad advice. For everyday maintenance, a $15 carbon fiber brush is all that I use and all I think is necessary most of the time (for wet cleaning, I go with either the Discwasher D4 or the wet-vac at a used record store). For all of the various products that have been introduced over the years for record cleaning, there's a reason why the carbon fiber brush is still around and some of the more dubious products (like the once ubiquitous felt rollers, blotter pads, and cleaning cloths) have disappeared from the market. At one time, there were also numerous less expensive record cleaning machines (including the infamous battery operated Ronco Record Cleaner), but they also disappeared for a very simple reason -- they did not work and actually made things worse. The Nitty Gritty has been available for more than 20 years. Something that has survived that long, while so many other record cleaning products from vinyl's heyday are no longer available, should at least have some merit.

Cleaning is a necessity, that's just consensus opinion. Whether or not you deem it necessary to go that extra step and buy a record vac depends on how fanatically you wish to maintain your prized albums. For someone with a large vinyl collection and a lot of prized rarities and who does not play CDs very often and trades on the collector's market, I would view a record vac as a viable investment (having a near mint grade LP can be worth more than double what something graded VG+ will fetch). For someone who has a more modest collection and a limited collection of irreplaceables, I don't see as much value in a record vac, and that's why I never bought one (I have about 300 albums, but about half of them will likely never get played again because I just don't listen to that music anymore).

Perhaps Rega, and this is my conspiracy theory going, made these comments to help sell turntables. After all LP's are far more of a pain in the ass than CD. So by saying just plug and play and the needle will pick up the dirt makes it SEEM easier for buyers yo get into Vinyl again or for the first time.

Considering that this is not on Rega's website, I don't see any conspiracy at all. Maybe that approach would attempt to win over new customers, but I don't see how posting advice that runs so contrary to over 50 years worth of accepted practice has any benefit to them considering that their main market remains customers with a vested interest in the format (i.e. preexisting vinyl collections), AND their own experience with how to best maintain their collections.

[DMK]

Maybe there's another reason why it's not posted on their website .

I didn't read about Rega's stylus-to-clean-LP's philosophy on their website - I read it in Stereophile in two different reviews by Michael Fremer. One was a full blown review of the P9 and one was a review of the P2 and P3 in his column. Regrettably, I can't remember which issues they were in but I'm thinking 1997-98. Check Stereophile's website. I do remember Mikey's quote of "Love those idealists!"

Yo, Wooch, what turntable do you own? I promise I'm not one of those people that pooh-poohs the gear of others . Well, I do occasionally with Skeptic but only because he brings it on himself. I wonder where that little troublemaker has been lately?

[Woochifer]

Yo, Wooch, what turntable do you own? I promise I'm not one of those people that pooh-poohs the gear of others . Well, I do occasionally with Skeptic but only because he brings it on himself. I wonder where that little troublemaker has been lately?

Eh, I don't really care if other people rip on what I buy. If you are one of those who wallow in negativity, you'll reveal yourself in short order -- some people just can't help it!

Anyway, I have a Dual CS5000, which I bought right before I went away for grad school 13 years ago. Wanted to get one of the AR turntable reissues, but they had already been discontinued by the time I saved up enough. That Dual is basically a knockoff of the AR suspended isolation platform (it passes the hammering on the shelf test, and can stil play when tilted at 45 degrees), and adds its own twists like a damped aluminum platter, a 78 speed option, semi-automatic tonearm, and a quartz lock (I believe still the only one ever introduced with a belt drive motor). It was their last hurrah in the U.S. before their distributor just locked their doors with no warning, and Dual abandoned the U.S. market. I read that Dual has made a comeback, but it looks like the brand is just getting slapped onto a bunch of cheapie HTIB stuff. Although I did see that the Needle Doctor is now selling Dual turntables (but they are selling the CS505 for $900, which would be a ripoff because it sells in Europe for the equivalent of about $400), so maybe they are back.

Thought about upgrading the tonearm to a Rega R3 (their cleaning preferences not withstanding), since the tonearm is the weak point on the CS5000, but considering that vinyl's not what I listen to most of the time, I had other budgetary priorities. Even now, I'm looking to upgrade my cartridge first before doing anything else (swapping out my Ortofon OM20 for a Sumiko Black Pearl was a very regrettable decision). Thinking about either the Grado Gold or going to another Ortofon.

[92135011]

Some tonearms cost 200 while others cost thousands.
How does a tonearm improve the sound?

[Woochifer]

Some tonearms cost 200 while others cost thousands.
How does a tonearm improve the sound?

Some tonearms are just better than others at maintaining a neutral alignment than others. Optimally, you want a tonearm that basically only has the vertical force working. The stylus tracking in the groove has to move the entire tonearm, and you want one that exerts as little of its own resistance or force as possible. Anything that lets the stylus just track the groove and transmit the vibrations back through the cartridge with as few external demands as possible allows for a better quality signal to get transmitted. Unlike with digital where tweaks with the transport have little to no effect, with a turntable a lot of different variables can have an audible effect on the sound, the tonearm is one of them.

[92135011]

GAH!
I knew getting into vinyl was a bad idea
Will tempt me to upgrade. Using an oldschool technics right now for starters...but I think the allignment is no good...Got some noise, probably due to DD motor...and a problem with the hydrolic arm lift that causes me to cue up a song inaccurately...motor sometimes doesnt keep constant speed...and cant cue any songs that are about 3-4inches from the centre...otherwise its GREAT!

[hifitommy]

you wont be sorry.

[Woochifer]

GAH!
I knew getting into vinyl was a bad idea
Will tempt me to upgrade. Using an oldschool technics right now for starters...but I think the allignment is no good...Got some noise, probably due to DD motor...and a problem with the hydrolic arm lift that causes me to cue up a song inaccurately...motor sometimes doesnt keep constant speed...and cant cue any songs that are about 3-4inches from the centre...otherwise its GREAT!

First thing's first, before you even do ANYTHING, zero out the tracking force and anti-skate settings and see if the tonearm "floats." If it rises above or dips below the turntable platter or if it veers off to one side, then you have to readjust the counterweight, so that with the tracking force set to zero, it truly is zero. Once you have the counterweight corrected, then most cartridges recommend about a 1.25-1.75 gram tracking force. If it's too light, then the needle's prone to skipping and you'll pick up some sibilance. If it's too heavy, then you can get distortion, and your records can wear down very quickly.

An improperly set anti-skating probably explains why you can't cue accurately (if the setting is wrong, the tonearm veers off to either the right or left). If the thing lifts or drops abruptly, then the damping oil probably needs replacement.

I would also check on whether or not you actually have a DD motor. A lot of Technics turntables were belt drives. If the speed is shifting, then you probably have a worn belt.

Noise might not necessarily be due to the motor. Check the grounding wire and make sure it's firmly attached. Also, a lot of turntables recommend that you remove the grounding strap from the cartridge (it's a thin piece of metal at the base of one of the four connectors at the back of the cartridge, found on a lot of moving magnet cartridges). To remove the strap, you need to remove the cartridge body from the tone arm and use a small pocket knife or xacto blade to pick the strap out. (you should also pull the stylus out before you go messing with sharp objects around the cartridge) With my parents' old BIC turntable, failing to remove the grounding strap led to a constant low level humming sound.

Yup, a turntable's a lot more maintenance than a CD player, and a helluva lot less disposable.

[92135011]

definately not the counterweight thats the problem. I just got a new cart 2 weeks ago and redid the balancing. 1.5g as ortofon suggests. Cue is still off after all that.

The table is definately direct drive as the front says "direct drive". The fuctuating speed is sort of annoying. Sometimes it may go fast, then slow, then fast. Which of course causes a change of pitch and speed of any song.

The noise isnt THAT much a problem, but I know that a better table would get it quieter than it is now