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  1. #1
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Reminder of MC's

    Someone remind why I should save up for a moving coil cartridge? What is the magic they have that MM's don't? I like a warm sound, so is there a coil that can give me all the famed coil characteristics while retaining some warmth?

    Any info is always much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    There is a level a detail many MC cartridges provide that the MM cartridges don't, but if you're committed to warmth I don't think I'd recommend trying to pursue that with MC cartridges. I would say my Goldring Eroica leans warmish as MC cartridges go, but I wouldn't go so far as to recommend it to someone looking for warm.

  3. #3
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Start researching High Output Moving Coil Eno. It uses the same MM input that Moving Magnet does, so you wouldn't need any special stage for it. These carts add alot more detail while keeping a nice warm midrange.

  4. #4
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    Historically, many of the well-loved MC cartridges have had a significant rise in the higher frequencies. This is where much of their vaunted "detail" comes from.

    Like many things in audio, we inherently love to tweak the frequency response of a playback without admitting that's what we're actually doing. ;-)

  5. #5
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlsstl
    Historically, many of the well-loved MC cartridges have had a significant rise in the higher frequencies. This is where much of their vaunted "detail" comes from.

    Like many things in audio, we inherently love to tweak the frequency response of a playback without admitting that's what we're actually doing. ;-)
    I'd say the same goes for the much-loved Audio-Technica AT440 cartridges.

  6. #6
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    I was conidering the AT-440MLa , Amazon had it for 99.99 for a week; alas no more.
    The Denon 110 and 160 are not a good match for my arm, if I remember the stats right.

    Did anyone know that Denon and Audio Technica rate their compliance at 100khz, so their actual numbers are about half of the usual rating. I think after converting the stats of these companies will open up more possibilities for me.

    Anyone heard of the AT-F3II ? or the AT-33EV? Wish I could rock the DL-103 but even after conversion the compliance is too low

    My Luxman R-3045 has dedicated MC phono stage so I really want to take advantage of that. Also, I feel that they designed the phono stage with the japanese MC carts in mind.

    Thanks for the info, keep it coming!!!!

  7. #7
    RGA
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    if you can I would recommend you try my MM Cartirdge. I would not buy into generalizations with MC and MM. If you look you can find some exceptions to the rule. The expense involved in the MC stage is rather a lot higher. I think the IQ3 on a good deck and appropriate arm will surprise you. The IQ3 is $1,200US so it is not cheap either but I guarantee you that you will have a new view of what MM can really do. http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/..._iq_3_01.shtml

  8. #8
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Wow RGA!! That cart looks amazing, but it is way out of my budget ($200ish) I too believe that the lines between MM and MC are getting blurry. I'm interested in MC's because it will be new to me. I feel that I am more drawn to budget wonder MM's or the high mid-tier MM carts. If I could afford a Clear Audio Maestro or a 2M Black my audio grin would be huge.

    I might go for a used Nagaoka MP-30 if the MC search does not prove fruitful.

  9. #9
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    There's at least some amount of truth to the generalization and considerable exceptions. However, in your budget range, MC is almost a non-issue, unless you're interested in the three Denon cartridges...103, 110 and 160. Among the MM cartridges in your budget, the Ortofon 2M Blue and the AT440MLa are going to lean toward the sound often associated with MC, while Grado, Goldring, Nagaoka and Shure would be more what the generalization of MM normally includes.

  10. #10
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Why not upgrade your OM cart to a 30 or 40?

  11. #11
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    I would upgrade the OM stylus, but at times it is too unforgiving of G+ or less albums. Also,
    I would like to try a different sound. I have heard that the OM30 stylus is a waste of time and it is recommended to jump straight up to the OM40 stylus.

    Noob, once again you are spot on.

    Does anyone know if Denon rates their compliance at 100khz or 10?

  12. #12
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome
    I would upgrade the OM stylus, but at times it is too unforgiving of G+ or less albums. Also,
    I would like to try a different sound. I have heard that the OM30 stylus is a waste of time and it is recommended to jump straight up to the OM40 stylus.

    Noob, once again you are spot on.

    Does anyone know if Denon rates their compliance at 100khz or 10?
    From the specs I've seen at the Denon site, their numbers have been at 100 Hz. Example:

    http://usa.denon.com/DL-103SA-OM-E_005.pdf

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    You can always try this cartridge.

    Goldring 1012 GX
    Product Review:
    No reviews available.

    The Goldring 1012GX uses the acclaimed Gyger II diamond stylus. This is a fine line type which gives smooth extended high frequencies with a low distortion and reproduces a highly detailed and dynamic sound. Advanced diamond tip polishing ensures excellent tracking ability and reduces record wear. The 1012GX has become one of Goldring's most popular cartridges.
    Price: $450.00 $450.00 $450.00
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    JohnMichael
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  14. #14
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Thanks Noob, that is what I thought. More options now, if I can find some coils that have
    a 18 compliance and above.

    John Michael, I forgot about Goldring, I'll have to look into those. Although, for that much
    I would most likely go for the Nagaoka MP-500, which has been much revered. As well they make the cantilevers for Goldring and most other cart companies.

    What about an MP-30 for $130.00? used of course. It has the nude tip (eliptical, not fine line I think) and the boron cantilever.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome

    John Michael, I forgot about Goldring, I'll have to look into those.

    What about an MP-30 for $130.00? used of course. It has the nude tip (eliptical, not fine line I think) and the boron cantilever.


    The point I wanted to make was the Audio Note was a rebadged and maybe tweaked Goldring. I have not heard a Nagaoka cartridge since the first time they were imported in the late 70's early 80's.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, Funk Firm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Ortofon OM20, Moon 110LP/PSU
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  16. #16
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    That Goldring 1012GX can be had for around $210 if you order it from the UK. The semi-legendary 1042 can be had for around $250, depending on the exchange rate.

    By the way, don't forget the Denon DL-160 is actually fairly high in compliance when you consider that their published number would have to be increased by 50 to 100 percent because it was tested at 100 Hz. It's MC and it's in your budget. It's also apparently being discontinued, according to Needle Doctor.

  17. #17
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    You might want to check out the Soundsmith cartridges. They are based on the B&O moving iron principle and do not have an interchangeable stylus. You can purchase them in two different compliances.

    http://www.needledoctor.com/Soundsmi...category=35414


    I liked the sound of the B&O cartridges and this may be what you need. There are benefits to the sound of a cartridge when the stylus is fixed and not replaceable. The generator system has less play and less resonance than a removeable stylus assembly.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, Funk Firm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Ortofon OM20, Moon 110LP/PSU
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  18. #18
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Interesting about fixed stylus not have the same resonance issues as interchangeable.
    I've been eyeing this Denon 160 for $75.00 on ebay. Once. I found out about the 100 Hz conversion, it seems to be less difficult to find a moving coil now. Poppa stated that the DL-160 is on the warmer side of neutral, which has sparked my interest.

    Am I the only one who likes warm carts?! It's getting cold in here

    Along with Denon DL-160 being discontinued, so is the Grado Blue. Is this the year of the blue colored cartridges going out of vogue?

  19. #19
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome
    Someone remind why I should save up for a moving coil cartridge? What is the magic they have that MM's don't? I like a warm sound, so is there a coil that can give me all the famed coil characteristics while retaining some warmth?

    Any info is always much appreciated.
    This seems like a lot to ask of these cartridges in the $100 to $200 range, although the DL-160 certainly has its fans.

  20. #20
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    a lot has been said regarding this subject. i would go to the audioasylum.com site and in the vinyl asylum-search the subject.

    the brightness issue has gone away as current carts and preamps have dealt with this problem.

    also, i would go to:

    http://www.cometsupply.com

    and search denon. there are numerous MCs there for the price youre looking for.

    if you have a preamp with mc capability then youre ready. otherwise, a step up transformer or pre-preamp is necessary.

    once youve tried mc, you may have trouble going back to mm. high output MCs arent all that good. of course htere are some that are very nice, just as with anything.

    the 103 at comet supply is $120! thats the best price around and its a VERY good cartridge. the stylus is conical so you may or may not prefer the 301mk2 at $170.

    good luck in your quest.
    ...regards...tr

  21. #21
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy
    once youve tried mc, you may have trouble going back to mm. high output MCs arent all that good. of course htere are some that are very nice, just as with anything.
    Tommy you are my audio uncle, and I love you as such, but why do you bash HOMC so much? I think HOMC would at the least serve as a nice stepping stone.

  22. #22
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    try lomc and find out.
    ...regards...tr

  23. #23
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Well truthfully I plan to. I am having the second phono board in my pre modded to accomodate MC. Arm first...

  24. #24
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Can I stretch the compliance of 10 on the DL-103 to match with a low mass tone arm?
    I know it is probably no, but that deal on the 103 is crazy.

    Hifi Tommy have you purchased anything from that site before? It seems to good to be true.

  25. #25
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome
    Can I stretch the compliance of 10 on the DL-103 to match with a low mass tone arm?
    I know it is probably no, but that deal on the 103 is crazy.

    Hifi Tommy have you purchased anything from that site before? It seems to good to be true.
    Tommy spends most of his time at vinyl asylum, I would assume if he is rec'n it, the deal is solid. If he hasn't bought from there, I'm sure he knows of a few people who have. Remember Tommy was around when they called them gramaphones.

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