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Thread: Phono Preamp

  1. #1
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Phono Preamp

    Thought I would start this on a new thread since there seems to be a drought in the number of threads here.

    My Thorens TD-125 died AGAIN! So I decided instead dumping more money into that heap I would sell it for parts, and use the proceeds to upgrade my stage from the Cambridge 640p to something else.

    Here is my short list:

    PS AUDIO GCPH
    MUSICAL SURROUNDINGS PHENOMENA II
    JASMINE LPMKII
    REGA FONO MM WITH A SUT
    RAY SAMUELS NIGHTHAWK

    some of these are in consideration at used prices. I can probably handle any sub $1000 at a used price of around $500 - 600.

    I almost bought a Dynavector P75 first version for $200 but I feel it would not be a significant jump from the 640p, maybe the mk2 would have but not the first version.

    Chime in!
    Main System: Exposure 2010s - VPI HW-19jr - Denon DL-103LC - ClearAudio Basic - Sony SCD-S7700 - PS Audio DLlll - Revel M20

  2. #2
    Meh. Brett A's Avatar
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    I went from a 640p to a Jolida JD9 and found it to be a very substantial upgrade; even more so after doing some (well-documented) minor mods.

    Of the units you listed, I've been very curious about the Musical Surroundings for a long time. That, like the Jolida, is a very versatile and adjustable phono pre.
    Amp Shanling A3000-> speakers Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grand CD Rotel RCD 991 AE TT: Well Tempered Record Player-> AT OC9MLII -> Jolida JD9. cables from AQ, Siltech, Bogdan, Signal DH Labs, etc...
    Some pictures of it all

  3. #3
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Well Rogue has a new stage out...its sells for $995. I almost bought it before I decided to worry about new speakers first.

    There is a Rogue Stealth on audiogon right now for $630.

    Then there is the simaudio 110LP that JM has and I trust his ears...its $600.

    The PS AUDIO GCPH can be had for about $600 and noob has one and I too trust his ears.

    I have a Grado Phono 1 that is just wonderful for $500. I am running the 2M Black through it and I love it...I too trust my ears...lol!

    The Jasmine is a giant killer from what I hear...and can be had for $499 on ebay.

    You can get the Graham Slee Reflex with regular power supply direct from Graham for about $750...including shipping charges from GB. In the States they cost $1295.

    And Brett and Poultrigeist both have the modded Jolida and speak wonders about it, so you have a lot of choices to pick from.

    I've too heard great things aout the Musical Surrounings...you can go wrong with any of them. What table will you be using?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  4. #4
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    I'll be using my back up turntable which is a Micro-Seiki DD-40. Frustratingly, the M-505 is a killer
    arm but it is low mass, so my options for MC carts will be limited (most likely a Denon 304).
    Main System: Exposure 2010s - VPI HW-19jr - Denon DL-103LC - ClearAudio Basic - Sony SCD-S7700 - PS Audio DLlll - Revel M20

  5. #5
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome View Post
    I'll be using my back up turntable which is a Micro-Seiki DD-40. Frustratingly, the M-505 is a killer
    arm but it is low mass, so my options for MC carts will be limited (most likely a Denon 304).
    So you never got a chance to listen to the Grado Red?
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  6. #6
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    I just got around to trying out the Grado Red. The table that died was indeed the one the Red was going to be demoed on. Sorry about the late reply, I was away for awhile and then I had my place painted (major job but worth it) so I had no access to my gear.

    Listening to the Grado Red I take back most of what I said about the much criticized Blue, except there is quite a difference between the two. The greatest quality of the Red is its tonality. It just gets the timber and texture just right, and that was listening through my Large Advents, which are not known as the last word on detail of timber. I also thought it was smooooth and I really enjoyed vocals through it.
    I thought that it had more air than what I remembered the Blue having and the soundstage too was wider. I think the Micro 505 is a good match for it because it tracked better than what I remembered, but not completely without fault; the inner grooves were hawk'n but not scream'n.

    All in all I thought that this Red is a really good deal. I do feel it's soundstage is little narrow, and it lacks a great deal of air, but those are omissions I can live with for that great tonality.

    Thanks Frenchie!!!!!

    Here is some pics:






    Oh, and in regard to this thread I ended up choosing a Clearaudio Basic phonostage. It will arrive in the mail shorlty and I will post my thoughts and some pics.
    Main System: Exposure 2010s - VPI HW-19jr - Denon DL-103LC - ClearAudio Basic - Sony SCD-S7700 - PS Audio DLlll - Revel M20

  7. #7
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    With a few easy mods the Jolida JD9 tube phono pre for less than $400 will shame anything under $1500. With miles of threads on most audio forums it has a proven track record.

    It will also drive any cart under the sun.

  8. #8
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Wow! You got the Clearaudio Basic +??? Thats and excellent stage from what I've read. I think you can also get the external psu.

    Glad you got around to checking out the Red. I thought it was nice and musical as well.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MF XRAY v8 /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/ Creek OBH MK 2/Canton Vento 830.2

  9. #9
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    eno,

    i am surprised that you doubt the quality of the dv p75. it has been quite well received in the press and they disappear quickly from 'gon and other places too.

    dynavector p75

    had one been around for $200, there was i time i might have leaped for that item. i am not in need at present.

    the other choices you list are good as would be the jolida and clearaudio units and i would be pretty sure the vincent should be included in consideration.
    ...regards...tr

  10. #10
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy View Post
    eno,

    i am surprised that you doubt the quality of the dv p75. it has been quite well received in the press and they disappear quickly from 'gon and other places too.

    dynavector p75

    had one been around for $200, there was i time i might have leaped for that item. i am not in need at present.

    the other choices you list are good as would be the jolida and clearaudio units and i would be pretty sure the vincent should be included in consideration.
    Tommy...I saw the new model P75 Mk2 in the store and was very disappointed in the size of the thing. Pictures online don't tell all the story. While it may be good, where in the heck is the $850 they are charging going too? The thing was slightly bigger than a pack of cigarettes. I would feel like I had been ripped off if I bought that stage.

    Here are the dimensions....: 5.3"x3.25"x1.75"

    That small assh box goes for $850! Hell no!
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MF XRAY v8 /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/ Creek OBH MK 2/Canton Vento 830.2

  11. #11
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    frenchie,

    what does it matter of the size of a component? ultimately, its the sound. yes, when something is seemingly priced high for its size, its daunting at first, but it is truly results we are after, no?

    they are usually priced at the 4-500 dollar level which is not a whole lot of dough, especially for a high performer like it is. they don't last log at that price either.
    ...regards...tr

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I have to admit I understand the issue of size and the concern of value for dollars. Often you read where an expensive component is almost an empty box. Of course what is in it may be the best available parts.

    Of all my phono preamps the CA 640P with it's high parts count looks impressive. It sounds good but nowhere near my Moon 110LP. The parts in the 110LP are smaller but the layout is cleaner and the sound is great. Adding the upgraded power supply was another step up in performance.

    I found a picture that I think was the interior view of the Fanfare MC preamp and that did not shout value. It sounded good but was not as shielded as the 110LP. My Rotel preamp in a full width case looks a little empty but it has a real power supply built in instead of using a walwart.

    Judging by size, circuit layout and sound the Moon 110LP is good value for the money.
    JohnMichael

    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, Ringmat Anniversary mat, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, GSP Fanfare 3 w/PSU1

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  13. #13
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Tommy....I see things differently from you. They make a good product as cheap as they can, and make a ton of money on the consumer. Sorry that's how I feel about it.


    JM your stage is a giant in comparison to that tiny thing.....
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  14. #14
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    sorry frenchie,

    i don't buy into the conspiracy theory. dynavector isnt one of the snake oil and fairy dust progenitors. having already established themselves as great phono cartridge manufacturers, i found it hard to believe that they would rape us with cheaply built crap.

    it can be daunting to buy a product that seems inexplicably small. my instinct is to get sonic results first then judge the aesthetics. we are all different and have different

    as a comparison, the clearaudio basic plus is smaller and costlier. thats another company that has established its quality to the audio community. why build a big metal box to create an illusion of size/value? as for price, it should be commensurate with performance.

    bottom line is we spend our money on what we perceive to be worth it.
    ...regards...tr

  15. #15
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy View Post
    sorry frenchie,

    i don't buy into the conspiracy theory. dynavector isnt one of the snake oil and fairy dust progenitors. having already established themselves as great phono cartridge manufacturers, i found it hard to believe that they would rape us with cheaply built crap.
    Hi Tommy. No conspiracy. And when I say cheaply built, I don't mean as in inferior parts....but as in materials. They don't use a lot of materials. But apparently they make a good product.


    it can be daunting to buy a product that seems inexplicably small. my instinct is to get sonic results first then judge the aesthetics. we are all different and have different
    Tommy...my ideas about the size is mine alone. I dont know any body who share my idea. I have a big car, big house, and I like big stuff. So when it comes to certain audio gear....if its seems to small for the price, I don't want. it


    as a comparison, the clearaudio basic plus is smaller and costlier. thats another company that has established its quality to the audio community. why build a big metal box to create an illusion of size/value? as for price, it should be commensurate with performance.
    I like the Basic....and I too like the Dynavector. I think both are good products. I just wont spend money on them...and at least Clearaudio gives you two small boxes. lol!

    bottom line is we spend our money on what we perceive to be worth it.
    Thats right and I could not agree more.....Thats why at this moment, my next phono stage will be a Rogue Triton phono amp....its as big as a phono amp.
    Last edited by frenchmon; 06-17-2012 at 10:37 AM.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  16. #16
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Sadly in this day and age there are very few places to audition phono preamps. Back in the days when vinyl was king every receiver, integrated amp and preamp had a phono stage. When I bought a Rotel Int. amp and realized there was no phono stage I bought the matching Rotel without giving it much thought.

    Phono preamps can be had for under $50 all the way to multiple thousands of dollars. In my mind, such as it is, I find it hard to spend too much more than I have spent on my cartridge. A $3,000phono preamp for my $600 Grado seems out of balance. Considering I may never pay more than $600 for a cartridge my $600 Moon 110LP makes sense to me. The Dynavector at $850 is not out of the question at that price. I felt I knew more about the Moon 110LP and both companies had a good rep so I bought the 110LP.

    Audio magazines are good at reviewing the latest state of the art phono preamps for big dollars. There is not a lot of info in the $200-$1000 range. I would love to read a phono preamp shoot out in Stereophile between the Moon 110LP, Dynavector, Jolida, Musical Surroundings Phonomena and the tubed ProJect.

    Of course I did add the Welborne Labs power supply upgrade which added to the cost but added more to the performance. Many of us without two channel dealers selling analog rely on companies like Music Direct and Needle Doctor are our places to shop. Being a distance from the products and making your choice I find myself looking at perceived value, construction, reviews and a 30 day return policy.
    JohnMichael

    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, Ringmat Anniversary mat, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, GSP Fanfare 3 w/PSU1

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  17. #17
    Forum Regular Jack in Wilmington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    Hi Tommy. No conspiracy. And when I say cheaply built, I don't mean as in inferior parts....but as in materials. They don't use a lot of materials. But apparently they make a good product.




    Tommy...my ideas about the size is mine alone. I dont know any body who share my idea. I have a big car, big house, and I like big stuff. So when it comes to certain audio gear....if its seems to small for the price, I don't want. it



    I like the Basic....and I too like the Dynavector. I think both are good products. I just wont spend money on them...and at least Clearaudio gives you two small boxes. lol!



    Thats right and I could not agree more.....Thats why at this moment, my next phono stage will be a Rogue Triton phono amp....its as big as a phono amp.
    But Frenchie, you have small speakers. If you adhere to your theory, you should have bought floor standing speakers.
    2 Channel System
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 Mk II
    Pass Labs X150.5 (Amp)
    Cary SLP-03 (Preamp)
    Music Hall MMF 5.1 (TT)
    Goldring 1012GX (Cart.)
    Pro-ject SE II (Phono Box)
    Rotel RCD-1072 (CD Player)
    Bryston BDA-1 ( DAC )
    Sennheiser HD-600 (Headphones)
    Musical Fidelity Xcan V3 (Headphone Amp) _

    HT System
    Usher X-719 (Mains)
    Usher X-616 (Center)
    Usher S-520 (Surrounds)
    Rel T2 (Subwoofer)
    Anthem MCA20 (Amp)
    Onkyo TX SR-705 (Receiver)
    Panasonic TH-46PZ85U (Plasma TV)
    Denon DBT-1713UD (BluRay/SACD)

  18. #18
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington View Post
    But Frenchie, you have small speakers. If you adhere to your theory, you should have bought floor standing speakers.


    Interesting point but there are smaller stand mount speakers. The point I was trying to make is that it would be easier to overlook size if you heard the product. Frenchon auditioned the speakers before purchase and he only saw the Dynavector. I would need to hear that phono preamp prior to handing over $850 for something so small you would wonder what was actually in it.
    JohnMichael

    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, Ringmat Anniversary mat, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, GSP Fanfare 3 w/PSU1

    Digital Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd, Marantz SA 8001

    Int. Amp Krell S-300i

    Speakers Focal 806V/Focal 800 stands

    Cables AQ Rocket 33's, Diamondback XLR's & IC's

  19. #19
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington View Post
    But Frenchie, you have small speakers. If you adhere to your theory, you should have bought floor standing speakers.
    Jack...when you see the 830.2's and the fine material and craftsmanship that went into them, and THEN the sound, you would change your mind about that statement....and they sound like floor standers. When I saw the Dynavector in person...I did not say wow.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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  20. #20
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    question frenchie-did you ever get to HEAR the p75?
    ...regards...tr

  21. #21
    Forum Regular Jack in Wilmington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    Jack...when you see the 830.2's and the fine material and craftsmanship that went into them, and THEN the sound, you would change your mind about that statement....and they sound like floor standers. When I saw the Dynavector in person...I did not say wow.
    But there are plenty of beautiful looking speakers out there that won't sound good in your setup and there are plenty of ordinary looking speakers out there that would sound great in your system. I'm guilty of this also. I won't buy a component if it doesn't look good in my system. My Pro-ject phono pre is the least exciting looking piece of equipment that I own, but it does what it's supposed to do and that's all I need from it.
    2 Channel System
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 Mk II
    Pass Labs X150.5 (Amp)
    Cary SLP-03 (Preamp)
    Music Hall MMF 5.1 (TT)
    Goldring 1012GX (Cart.)
    Pro-ject SE II (Phono Box)
    Rotel RCD-1072 (CD Player)
    Bryston BDA-1 ( DAC )
    Sennheiser HD-600 (Headphones)
    Musical Fidelity Xcan V3 (Headphone Amp) _

    HT System
    Usher X-719 (Mains)
    Usher X-616 (Center)
    Usher S-520 (Surrounds)
    Rel T2 (Subwoofer)
    Anthem MCA20 (Amp)
    Onkyo TX SR-705 (Receiver)
    Panasonic TH-46PZ85U (Plasma TV)
    Denon DBT-1713UD (BluRay/SACD)

  22. #22
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hifitommy View Post
    question frenchie-did you ever get to HEAR the p75?
    No I did not hear it Tommy. Im sure it sounds great. But the match box size of it kinda surprised me. Besides the simaudio 310LP we where listening too out classed the much cheaper p75.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MF XRAY v8 /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/ Creek OBH MK 2/Canton Vento 830.2

  23. #23
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack in Wilmington View Post
    But there are plenty of beautiful looking speakers out there that won't sound good in your setup and there are plenty of ordinary looking speakers out there that would sound great in your system. I'm guilty of this also. I won't buy a component if it doesn't look good in my system. My Pro-ject phono pre is the least exciting looking piece of equipment that I own, but it does what it's supposed to do and that's all I need from it.
    I hear ya Jack. But that's really not my argument how beautiful the gear is. My Xray is butt ugly and the transport looks like an old computer cd rom drawer. My initial argument is the very small size of the p75 and the money spent to build it. Now most gear cant be justified by the cost of material....this we all agree. But the p75 in my opinion was doubly unjustifiable especially for $850. Nope, can't do it.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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    Vincent SA - T1/Vincent SP-331 MK /MF XRAY v8 /MMF-7.1/2M BLACK/ Creek OBH MK 2/Canton Vento 830.2

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchmon View Post
    No I did not hear it Tommy. Im sure it sounds great. But the match box size of it kinda surprised me. Besides the simaudio 310LP we where listening too out classed the much cheaper p75.


    I would love to hear the 310LP to see how much better than the 110LP it is. The PSU for the 310LP is expensive. I might try a Welborne Labs PSU for about $300 before I bought the Moon 310 PSU but hey I could not afford the 310LP anyway. Nice to dream.
    JohnMichael

    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, Ringmat Anniversary mat, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, GSP Fanfare 3 w/PSU1

    Digital Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd, Marantz SA 8001

    Int. Amp Krell S-300i

    Speakers Focal 806V/Focal 800 stands

    Cables AQ Rocket 33's, Diamondback XLR's & IC's

  25. #25
    frenchmon frenchmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael View Post
    I would love to hear the 310LP to see how much better than the 110LP it is. The PSU for the 310LP is expensive. I might try a Welborne Labs PSU for about $300 before I bought the Moon 310 PSU but hey I could not afford the 310LP anyway. Nice to dream.
    The only draw back too listening to the 310 was the cart they had on the Clearaudio which was very warm matched with the Dynaudios. But even then I could tell the 310 was superb. I've never heard you stage, but from listeining to the 310 an reading what others have said about it, its outstanding as well.
    Music...let it into your soul and be moved....with Canton...Pure Music


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