phono preamp.

[basite]

anybody knowing a good phono preamp which MUST have a subsonic tone filter in the sub $180 class, i can't get rid of the wooferpumping somehow, i tried anything, now i want to try a phono preamp, or if possible, can you get a filter alone??

thnx, Basite

[JohnMichael]

anybody knowing a good phono preamp which MUST have a subsonic tone filter in the sub $180 class, i can't get rid of the wooferpumping somehow, i tried anything, now i want to try a phono preamp, or if possible, can you get a filter alone??

thnx, Basite

The Cambridge Audio Azur 640 P has a defeatable subsonic filter. It is in your price range. I do not remeber which cartridge you chose for the turntable. I am still thinking mismatch with the arm. I know I had an older JVC manual table with an S shaped arm and the mass was high. I could not use Grado cartridges because the mass would cause the cartridge to vibrate in the groove. I can not remember what we used to call that effect something like the Grado dance. Many older high mass tonearms work better with low compliance moving coil cartridges.

[jrhymeammo]

Hey Bastie, we may have talked about this before. But, how do you have your TT placed? I remember you writing that your space was limited so it wasnt as ideal as you would like. I used to have the same problem that drove me mad. And mine phono-pre has subsonic filter 18dbs around 18hz. First thing I can tell you is that you have to try alot of different setup and be patient. I almost gave up on records because of that problem. Once you get it right, you will never think CDs sound better than LPs.
First, do you have an access to a carteudge alignment tool? Something like this? http://turntablebasics.com/ It's only $20(US). If you dont have it aligned correctly, you are damaging your cartridge and most importantly your precious and sometime irreplacable records. Also if your cart is dragging on the record surface ALOT more than it's supposed to, it can creat vibration issues. That could be your problem. Whether your cart is setup correctly or not, if you dont have one you should get it before you make anymore record purchase.
Also, have you have a chance to acquire some brass cones? You can get them for about $4 a piece. This is the cheapest website I could find. http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...%CArt_id%25%25 I guess one way to see if you need brass cones would be to see if you problem gets worst when you walk around your TT. It could be external vibration that's causing it.
If I looked up the right one you have really nice integrated amp. I say this because I was going to recommend you get a phono-pre for under your budget.
Only Subsonic Filter I've seen is http://www.kabusa.com/index_pp.htm but it costs $170. As I said my phono-pre has good sub-s filter, but I couldn't get rid of it until I move it around. Just make sure whatever your TT is sitting on is heavy and solid. If not, try using a REALLY heavy table somewhere from your house and see if that'll work.
I wouldnt spending your hard earned cash on a sub-sonic filter yet.


Best luck to you.

-JRA

[E-Stat]

anybody knowing a good phono preamp which MUST have a subsonic tone filter in the sub $180 class, i can't get rid of the wooferpumping somehow, i tried anything, now i want to try a phono preamp, or if possible, can you get a filter alone??

My recommendation is the Rolls Bellari phono pre. It's now slightly above your budget, but it has a "rumble" filter and is very nice sounding. I enjoy one in my vintage system.

Rolls Bellari

rw

[jrhymeammo]

I wanna share my experience with Rolls phono pre. VP129 has received incredible reviews, and considered to be one of the best buy. If you are ever interested, write Dean Martin a private message. He can also tell you how great that tube pre is. I have no experience with 129, but I have used VP 29. That was THE WORST audio product I have ever used, and I have owned some really bad stuff. http://www.americanmusical.com/item-...-RLL-VP29.html
I used to use it with Pioneer PL1000 w/Grado green. Sound quality was worst than 1st generation CDs. BTW, remastered recordings are incredibly good( I like music on CDs too). If you REALLY want to know how bad SQ was, then I will write you a private message. I just didnt want members to buy 29 b/c they could wait to save another $100 or so.

We really want help you with your on going problem Bastie. Keep us informed. I'll do what I can with my limited knowledge.

-JRA

[emorphien]

I've been wanting to try the VP129 myself.

[nobody]

I had bad problems with woofers pumping years back and the only thing that solved the problem was better setup and vibration control. I never tried the subsonic filter thing, but that was something I was considering until I finally got things working out. I do faintly recall someone pointing me to some plugs that you can run your turntable output to and they plug right on into your preamp with a subsonic cutoff. I never got around to trying them since getting rid of excess movement solved things for me, but I know they're out there somewhere.

[basite]

hmmm, the bellari is really attractive, exept for the price, i'm also thinking of giving the tt to my grandfather or my dad and buying myself a new tt around xmas or newyear (or somewhere between now and xmas), would that help it also, cuz now i'm using the found counterweight, an old dust cap from a sanyo tt (which is 1 cm to long actually), cus the luxman is really really hard to adjust something, i also noticed that the woofer pumping
becomes less after the first song/third on the record so i'm thinking that i must try to adjust it a little more and over and over again till something happens, thing is that i can cause more rumble but not less by adjusting (any suggestions on that??), another thing that i was thinking is that the turntable motor causes some rumble (not all of it, just partially).

anyway, to get back on the new tt thing (if it can help)
i was thinking of a pro-ject tt or a thorens one, anyone have any experience with one of them??
the candidates:
http://www.project-audio.com/main.ph...tables&lang=en
http://www.project-audio.com/main.ph...tables&lang=en
or the the debut 3, but that is when i have not enough money to buy the other ones

there aren't any thorens candidates cuz all the ones that are in my price range are ugly and fully automatic (which i definatly not want) so only project ones for now.
btw
@jrhymeammo, about the brass cones/spikes, i tried around a lil bit, and it seems that the spikes from my dad's b&w's fit, so i'm using them (together with somthing which is a bit shock vibrating) in place of the standard tt feets,

greetz,
basite

[Bernd]

Hi,
First, placement of your TT is of the utmost importance. I have seen people have theirs on the floor, in shut in cabinets, in corners or in direct line of the speakers output.
Once you solved that, I certainly would check the bearings on your platter. Does it have any movement from side to side. And yes the motor can introduce rumble if it is not isolated enough.
Next, without having the platter rotating lower your stylus onto a record and slowly turn up the volume to see at which point you will get feedback when gently tapping on the plinth. That will tell you if your TT is not placed right.
Invest in a set up record.
A solid maple platform works wonders for isolating the TT.
Then check cartridge set up again.
The Cambridge and the Bellari will serve you well if you decide to go that way.
And if you don't need the automatic shut off facility go for the new Project, I would start with the basic model and save some pennies for a nice phono amp and then upgrade the TT. Also the Cartridge the Project comes with is not that good.
Also consider the new Thorens or a second hand Rega. The Rega will come with a better arm then any of the other budget models.
Hope this helps.

Peace

Bernd

[basite]

Also the Cartridge the Project comes with is not that good.

not that good, in it's price range, do you mean "Bad" or just "not that good" cuz i was thinking of investing in a grado cart (green/black) or something like that, also, about the Rega, which model should i look at?? and do you know a site/place where you can buy them?? remember i live in belgium, so i think that ebay.com won't be an option, the Thorens TD 295 MK IV is in serious consideration too, but i have to be really lucky to have enough money.

http://www.thorens.com/en/thorens.in...=en_210_0_1_3_

[Bernd]

They are giving the cartridge away with the Project. The TT deserves better, and one of the Grados or an Ortofon from the OM range will transport it a few steps up.
Why is E-bay not an option? Rega have replaced their whole range of TTs. So there are lots of second hand P2s and P3s floating about. I would go for the P2 as the RB250 arm is the nicer of the two and can be rewired pretty easy with great results. Also phone a couple of dealers for some ex-dem Regas.
The Thorens is fine player.
I know it's a tough decision, but that's part of the fun.
Good luck and let me know what you come up with.

Peace

Bernd

[basite]

They are giving the cartridge away with the Project. The TT deserves better, and one of the Grados or an Ortofon from the OM range will transport it a few steps up.

Peace

Bernd

a grado will be placed...

Why is E-bay not an option?

not the whole ebay, just the american version,(or other continents that are not europe), cuz on ebay.com they mostly only send it to the united states and not worldwide, and if they send it worldwide, i'd be better of buying a new rega.

[dean_martin]

You should really try to move up from the Pro-ject Debut tables. In Europe, the next step up used to be the RPM-4 which has been replaced by the RPM-5. Check as many dealers as you can to find one of the older RPM-4 tables at a discount. I'm not sure what your budget is but in US dollars you can still find two really good tables for $450 - the discontinued Rega P2 and the Pro-ject RPM-4 (aka RM-4 in the US).

As for the Bellari VP129, I've enjoyed it and have had no complaints. It's very quiet and has just enough gain for my high output mc. I did expect a little more weight to the sound with the tube in the circuit. But it is extended in both frequency extremes. The very detailed and airy treble response i get with the Ortofon MC-3 Turbo is not hashy or strained. I'd say it's very balanced and I'd rate it better than the 2 other phono sections I've used in the recent past - one in a Parasound preamp and one in an NAD receiver. I haven't compared it to any expensive stand-a-lone preamps, but I think it and my cartridge will keep up with a turntable upgrade in the future. I haven't needed the rumble filter. I think I turned it on once to see if I could tell a difference but I didn't like the little "pop" it made at turn-on so I haven't used it. I've used the headphone output a couple of times but not for any extended listening. Finally, I got mine at $199 usd before the price increase.

[basite]

hmmm, seems less with the old technics/panasonic cartridge i found too, dunno anything about that cart though, using that for now, i think i'm going for the new tt and see what it does, atleast, that one will be more 'compatible' with most cartridges around here today, about the shure carts, are u sure that they are still made, cuz i don't find them on their site!

also a question in the descision of the next tt: what is best: manually changing the speeds by refitting the belt or electronically??

[JoeE SP9]

hmmm, seems less with the old technics/panasonic cartridge i found too, dunno anything about that cart though, using that for now, i think i'm going for the new tt and see what it does, atleast, that one will be more 'compatible' with most cartridges around here today, about the shure carts, are u sure that they are still made, cuz i don't find them on their site!

also a question in the descision of the next tt: what is best: manually changing the speeds by refitting the belt or electronically??

www.needledoctor.com shows 12 Shure cartridges in stock. Changing TT speeds is something that's never been that big a deal. Simply shift the belt on the motor pulley.

45RPM vinyl is generally so bad it's not worth playing and 78RPM records need a different stylus to be played properly.

I realize there are lots of 12" 45RPM LP's. I have a lot myself. Most are DJ singles a few are Direct to Disk.

You can start with a belt drive that requires moving the belt and upgrade later to an electronic motor control that requires no belt shifting.

[basite]

looked at needledoctor, don't think that there are any carts with stabilizer, anyways, i'll look for that later, for the new tt: the 2 final solutions are the
pro-ject xpression2, and i will fit the grado black cart

http://www.project-audio.com/main.ph...tables&lang=en

or the pro-ject debut se, with the same grado cart

http://www.project-audio.com/main.ph...tables&lang=en

grado cart:

http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_main.htm

does this cart matches the tt?? (hope so, othewise i'll have to search again for another tt)
for the previous mentioned thorens: this is my partially final solution, but if i have enough money, i do want to consider the thorens.

[basite]

btw, where can you get concrete mats?? i'd like to place one too, to make sure that the tt is on a solid base.

[Bernd]

You can use paving slabs if you like that. I prefer to use 2 inch thick hardwood (maple) for my TT. You will still need to find a well isolated spot to place the TT.
The Grados will do fine with the Projects.
Good Luck

Peace

Bernd

[tin ear]

btw, where can you get concrete mats?? i'd like to place one too, to make sure that the tt is on a solid base.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/tweaks/

Scroll down half a page or so unitl you see Simple to make platform...

Thinking of trying it myself.

Jon

[tin ear]

BTW, just my $0.02.

I was considering the Pro-ject Debut, but decided I'll probably just bite the bullet & go with the Xpression instead. Yeah, more than I wanted to spend, but it has all the necessary adjustments. I don't remember if the debut has VTA adjustment (I think it does), but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have azimuth. The current model of the xpression has all that and conical feet to place on top of your fine new concrete mat.

I just ordered a Shure M97Xe at Amazon. Not an expensive cart but I think it has that gizmo y'all were talking about.

-j

[basite]

ok, something completely different in the subsonic tones departement, i've got this cd, "a warm blue note session" and it has got some tracks on it that were recorded from vinyl to the cd, some of these tracks cause woofer pumping too, anyone having a solution for this?

[jrhymeammo]

ok, something completely different in the subsonic tones departement, i've got this cd, "a warm blue note session" and it has got some tracks on it that were recorded from vinyl to the cd, some of these tracks cause woofer pumping too, anyone having a solution for this?

I'll give it a shot here.

I dont really know the exact model of your Advent speakers but you say it's 80ish. Could it be possible that rubber surroundings of your woofers are worn out? If you woofers are smaller than say... 20-25 cms, it's not really capable of playing sub 20hz frequency. Woofers may start pumping in and out when they are struggling to keep up with requested material. That maybe but will not explain your subsonic problems, I think. Playing CDs that were originally issued for LPs shouldn't be a problem. Try playing some bass heavy CD, and compare it with your LP problem. Your should see and hear the difference. Try not to worry so much and analyze more than you should. Debut SE should be a huge upgrade. Just get some brass cones under your TT. That will minimize feedback mostly caused by external vibration. Xpression 2 may work better since it comes with cone like feet. But I think connection of conical feet on Xpression are little flimsy due to rubber base. I personally dont like anything soft between cones and a TT.
If your woofers are say smaller than 20cms, and still having this issue I would have to say your TT is setup in less than ideal environment. I say less than 20cm since they shouldnt create floor/wall shaking bass. Maybe your TT's drive mechanism is creating excessive vibration.

TTs have mind of their own. It can be a bit tricky at times, but your problem seems unusual. Does it have feet on the bottom? Rubber feet or just sits flat on your table/rack? Were you able to find a heavy table in your house to see if your rack is the source of your problem? Any luck with heavy sheet to place under your TT?(most important part is that rock/concrete is heavy and FLAT)

If you have an access to a digital camera, how about a picture of your TT setup?

Best part of this is that you are not giving up on vinyl.

-JRA

[basite]

I'll give it a shot here.

I dont really know the exact model of your Advent speakers but you say it's 80ish. Could it be possible that rubber surroundings of your woofers are worn out? If you woofers are smaller than say... 20-25 cms, it's not really capable of playing sub 20hz frequency. Woofers may start pumping in and out when they are struggling to keep up with requested material. That maybe but will not explain your subsonic problems, I think. Playing CDs that were originally issued for LPs shouldn't be a problem. Try playing some bass heavy CD, and compare it with your LP problem. Your should see and hear the difference. Try not to worry so much and analyze more than you should. Debut SE should be a huge upgrade. Just get some brass cones under your TT. That will minimize feedback mostly caused by external vibration. Xpression 2 may work better since it comes with cone like feet. But I think connection of conical feet on Xpression are little flimsy due to rubber base. I personally dont like anything soft between cones and a TT.
If your woofers are say smaller than 20cms, and still having this issue I would have to say your TT is setup in less than ideal environment. I say less than 20cm since they shouldnt create floor/wall shaking bass. Maybe your TT's drive mechanism is creating excessive vibration.

TTs have mind of their own. It can be a bit tricky at times, but your problem seems unusual. Does it have feet on the bottom? Rubber feet or just sits flat on your table/rack? Were you able to find a heavy table in your house to see if your rack is the source of your problem? Any luck with heavy sheet to place under your TT?(most important part is that rock/concrete is heavy and FLAT)

If you have an access to a digital camera, how about a picture of your TT setup?

Best part of this is that you are not giving up on vinyl.

-JRA

just for the information: the woofer speaker (with surrouning and stuff around it) are 31 cm (12") total, they are different from the original advent woofers because they broke when i was 4-5 years old and my dad just put in new ones, with new surround that doesn't wear out,
for the cd, i'm pretty sure that it is the cd, cuz i have alot of songs that will go lower than that cd and then the speakers act exeptionally well, so it's not the speakers,

my next tt wil be as sead the xpression 2 or the debut se (more likely the xpression)
even better news for the tt, when i do my best at school, my parents will pay it, which leaves me enough money for a tuner or a cd player.

I have a digital camera, i will post pics in a few moments,

about the "giving up on vinyl" simple answer, NEVER!! once you like it, you can't get rid of it.

[basite]

here's a pic of the tt setup and one of the advents (one of them) both of the pictures are made with a flash, so they are quite reflective,

ow yeah, i know the setup is far from ideal, but i don't have room for a decent placement, there will once come a more decent placing, but still not ideal,

[Bernd]

The pics are fine. Thanks. Your TT is OK on that wall shelf, maybe try a thicker shelf. So I don't think that it is the placement that causes your booming problem. It's either the cartridge or the cartridge/arm incompatibility issue.
I would aswell try to isolate the speakers. Be that spikes or whatever underneath, you might find it cleans the booming up a fair bit.
Good incentive to study hard and get as a reward a new Project TT. Thats great.
All the best with the studying and keep those discs spinning.

Peace

Bernd