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  1. #1
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Nagaoka MP 110 vs. Ortofon 2M RED

    Anyone have any consensus between the two?

    Does anyone know if the Nagaoka MP 110 is a high compliance cartridge ( that particular spec seems to be missing in the literature)?

    Any particular perspectives or philosophy on their compatibility with a low-mass tonearm?

    Gracias!

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Nagaoka MP-110 MP110
    Phono Cartridge Specifications

    Type
    Moving Magnet

    Cantilever
    Aluminum Alloy

    Stylus type
    SuperFine polished elliptical, bonded diamond

    Stylus tip radius 0.4 x 0.7 mil
    Weight 6.5 grams
    Output voltage
    5mV (5cm/sec)

    Frequency characteristic 20 - 20,000 Hz
    Channel balance Better than 1.5 dB
    Channel separation
    Better than 23 dB at 1 kHz

    Recommended loading
    47,000 ohms

    Dynamic Compliance
    6.0 x 10-6 cm/dyne

    Static Compliance
    18 x 10-6 cm/dyne

    Tracking force range
    1.5 - 2.0 g

    Break-in period
    30 hours

    Replacement stylus
    Nagaoka JN-P110
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Ortofon 2M Red Phono Cartridge Specifications:


    •Output voltage at 1000 Hz, 5cm/sec.: 5.5 mV

    •Channel balance at 1 kHz: 1.5 dB

    •Channel separation at 1 kHz: 22 dB

    •Channel separation at 15 kHz: 15 dB

    •Frequency range at - 3dB: 20-22.000 Hz

    •Frequency response: 20-20.000 Hz + 3 / - 1 dB

    •Tracking ability at 315Hz at recommended tracking force: 70 Ám

    •Compliance, dynamic, lateral: 20 Ám/mN

    •Stylus type: Elliptical

    •Stylus tip radius: r/R 8/18 Ám

    •Tracking force range: 1,6-2,0g (16-20 mN)

    •Tracking force, recommended: 1.8 g (18 mN)

    •Tracking angle: 20░

    •Internal impedance, DC resistance: 1.3 kOhm

    •Internal inductance: 700 mH

    •Recommended load resistance: 47 kOhm

    •Recommended load capacitance: 150-300 pF

    •Cartridge weight: 7.2g



    Hopefully someone will be able to compare the compliance ratings since they use dfifferent methods of reporting.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  4. #4
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    I've posted a wrong reply.

    Check out this link.
    http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/nagaoka_mp11_e.html

  5. #5
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    JohnMichael,

    Thanks for those specs!! I could not find the dynamic compliance specs for the Nagaoka before, for some reason? It seems that the 2M red is high compliant and the reviews have been, for the most part, stellar. I read an article on how to translate the Nagoaka compliancy specs, but I'll have to dig up that article. I am really interested in that warm sound of the Nagaoka.

    Thanks again. Have you heard either, or something similar?

    Cheers - Enochrome

  6. #6
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    I have a Luxman PD-272 that has a Luxman low-ass arm, that I believe was made by Micro-Seiki.

  7. #7
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    So, if the Nagaoka is low compliant it probably won't be a suitable fit?

  8. #8
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Hahahaaahaha!!! Excuse me, I meant "low-mass", not "low-ass"! Ha, vinyl humor

  9. #9
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Ideally, you need a high-compliance stylus on a low-mass arm. However, there are few truly high-compliance cartridges. Your best bet when aiming for that characteristic is likely the Ortofon OM20. These styli that can use a tracking force of as much as 2.0 grams are not ordinarily high compliance, even if you don't see matching reporting techniques to bear that out.

    That particular characteristic isn't the final word on suitable cartridges, though. A Grado might get you what you're looking for...or a Shure M97XE.

    http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merc...ode=GRADBLUSTD

    http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merc...egory_Code=S15

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome
    JohnMichael,

    Thanks for those specs!! I could not find the dynamic compliance specs for the Nagaoka before, for some reason? It seems that the 2M red is high compliant and the reviews have been, for the most part, stellar. I read an article on how to translate the Nagoaka compliancy specs, but I'll have to dig up that article. I am really interested in that warm sound of the Nagaoka.

    Thanks again. Have you heard either, or something similar?

    Cheers - Enochrome

    Enochrome,

    Back in the days and I mean the late 70's and very early 80's a local audio store carried the Nagaoka cartridges. I purchased one and liked the sound. I used it in a fairly heavy S shaped tonearm on a Kenwood ttable. I owned it too long ago to comment on the sound. I do remeber it was a good match for a higher mass arm. The Ortofon and I currently own an OM20 cartridge is a good match for the Rega arm and lower mass arms.

    JM
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    That particular characteristic isn't the final word on suitable cartridges, though. A Grado might get you what you're looking for...




    02audionoob is right in that the Grado may give you the warmth you are looking for.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  12. #12
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    Thanks 02audionoob! Your post are always helpful and have focused my search. So, i think i'll wait on the Nagaoka for a different table. As far as the Ortofon's, the 2M Red rated compliancy is 20, isn't that considered high? I remember your post of OM10 as well, which is essentially the reason why I was able to widdle down my options.

    Is there much of difference between the OM10 and the 2M Red? The 2M has seemed to be getting all the rave reviews.

    Thanks for your advice and recommendations.

  13. #13
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    JohnMichael ,
    I am very impressed with Grado as an all around quality company. I love
    the Grado headphones that I have had over the years. The Prestige Blue looks inviting. I have not mentioned them, because I thought I would discover other audio brands as to further my experience, but only for that reason. Bar none, Grado does have my loyalty for sure, in fact they started me on my quest for quality sound.

    Cheers!

  14. #14
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
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    By the way, do you guys know a good way to polish the platter of a turntable. I kind of want that mirror shine. I know it's superficial, but hey, it's a mans gear, what are you gonna do!

  15. #15
    Can a crooner get a gig? dean_martin's Avatar
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    I have the 2M Red on a Technics 1200 with the heavy s-shaped stock arm. I use the add- on end piece for extra weight and a Sumiko headshell that is heavier than tstock. The 2M Red seems to like the added weight. My guess is that Ortofon's OM20 would be a better match with a "low-ass" arm. The Ortofon OM series cart comes with many of Pro-Ject's tables in Europe. Pro-Ject's arms are low to medium mass. Compliance is something I've yet to get my head around. I see the numbers but don't know what they mean. I have to draw inferences here and there

    I would love to listen to a Nagaoka cart.

  16. #16
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    The Nagaoka is a smooth and warm cart also. I have heard it, but have not owned it. It could very well rival the lower end Grados.

    I have a 2M Red and an OMB-10, both are fine sounding carts with very forward sound. I love them. I was simply amazed at what the OMB-10 was capable of once it broke in. I quite literally got excited about listening to it, and found myself in a HUGE vinyl cave. My wife was none too pleased as every waking moment was spent listening to it.

    I recently put a Shure M97xe on one of my tables, courtesy of 02audionoob. It took me a short while to get used to it. Indeed quite laid back but once your ears adjust, it's quite an amazing sound. Excellent for long sessions as there is no fatigue whatsoever. It somehow manages to stay engaging despite it's mellow ways, this is through the detail it provides.

    I would say if you like an "in your face" sound, with alot of presence, go for the Ortofon. This is the type of sound I prefer. If you want something a tad more tame, try the Nagaoka. Either way you can't lose.

  17. #17
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome
    Thanks 02audionoob! Your post are always helpful and have focused my search. So, i think i'll wait on the Nagaoka for a different table. As far as the Ortofon's, the 2M Red rated compliancy is 20, isn't that considered high? I remember your post of OM10 as well, which is essentially the reason why I was able to widdle down my options.

    Is there much of difference between the OM10 and the 2M Red? The 2M has seemed to be getting all the rave reviews.

    Thanks for your advice and recommendations.
    But look at the compliance spec for the OM20...it's 25. And you're quite welcome. It's always great fun to help out in the analog room.

    Ooh, ooh...one more thing. The reason you might not see reviews of the OM10 is that it's outgoing...dead...toast...outta here. The OM series was replaced by the 2M series.

  18. #18
    Vinyl Fundamentalist Forums Moderator poppachubby's Avatar
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    Indeed, and here's the result...http://www.turntableneedles.com/Orto...10_p_2999.html

    You asked about $100? Get your cart and have enough left over to buy some vinyl too!

  19. #19
    Retro Modernist 02audionoob's Avatar
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    I think the compliance number listed for the OMB-10 at turntableneedles.com is incorrect, but I can't find the offical Ortofon chart at the moment to verify that.

    Edit...nope, found it. According to the Ortofon website it's correct at 25.

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