LINN SONDEK Lp-12 preliminary review (Long)

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Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course but you are so wrong about the Pro-ject tables it just isnt funny - either that or there was something seriously wrong with the Project 9 table you saw.
--no it worked fine. Project uses cheap bearings...fact. I was at the dealer while he showed me one disassembled. The rpm-6 I heard was noisy, working as normal. Pro-ject looks come first, quality second.

It is makes like Project and Rega that have saved vinyl from extinction. For less than the cost of a semi reasonable CD player you get vinyl playback and better sonics. They are also about as plug and play a device as exists in vinyl playback today.
--Project's best sounds about like a midrange Rega. Rega has superior parts, better reliability, sound and musicality. The rpm-9 is no match for a P-3 in most areas.

My own system (based on a Pro-ject RPM 4 although now very upgraded) has embarrassed a number of very high end tables in its time and has proved impossible to move away from, for me.
--Which high end tables? with what arm, cart and p/s? where was this?

I am sure your LP12 is a wonder - but I'd be very happy to put my table up alongside it and I have no doubt you would be more than a little surprized.

--I have heard the rpm side by side with amany tables since I started looking into vinyl in 1999. Nothing project makes... let me rephrase that in case there is a mis understanding. NOTHING project makes is anywhere within the same solar system as an lp-12. Anyone who thinks so should pound his or her own skull with a claw hammer until that asinine and false assertion goes away. The pro-ject tables are entry-level tables, with a definate limit on upgradeability, detail refinement and quality. Rega, LINN, VPI, Michell, SME, Clearaudio, Basis, Nottingham are all way, way out of Pro-jects league. Comparing a project rpm-4 to an lp-12 is as stupid as drag racing a stock Yugo against a Ferrari Enzo.

[maxg]

Like I said - everyone is entitled to their opinion, however wrong it may be.

The attached picture (hopefully) shows my somewhat modified RPM 4. The arm is the Project 9 (not the standard one shipped with the table - the better version with the improved bearings), fully rewired (through-wired) with Clearaudio sixstream cabling and gold connectors etc. the motor has been removed into a separate enclosure and the cartridge is the Shelter 901 running into an Accoustic Signature Tango Pre-amp.

Not a bad list of upgrades for a non-upgradable table. The match of the modded arm and Shelter is staggeringly good and the removal of the admittedly cheap motor to a safe distance has cut detectable noise from that source down to zero (pre-amp volume on full).

But hell - you are obviously very proud of your Linn and so you should be - just dont waste your time telling me Pro-ject is crap because, in simple terms, I and thousands of other users know better.

Should I now regale you with the stories of the audiophiles who have come and gone with their tales between their legs, of the oh-so confident Accoustic Solid TT salesman who now owns a modded RPM 4 of his own, of the friends who laughed at my table compared to their mighty Clearaudio's who went suddenly quite pensive.....maybe not - what is the point?

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Like I said - everyone is entitled to their opinion, however wrong it may be.

Just like yours!

The attached picture (hopefully) shows my somewhat modified RPM 4. The arm is the Project 9 (not the standard one shipped with the table - the better version with the improved bearings), fully rewired (through-wired) with Clearaudio sixstream cabling and gold connectors etc. the motor has been removed into a separate enclosure and the cartridge is the Shelter 901 running into an Accoustic Signature Tango Pre-amp.

Looks like it was built very crudely by a highschool kid in wood shop. You can put brembo brakes on a yugo, and even KKS turbo. Lets make a silk purse out of a sows ear! to each his own I suppose.

Not a bad list of upgrades for a non-upgradable table. The match of the modded arm and Shelter is staggeringly good and the removal of the admittedly cheap motor to a safe distance has cut detectable noise from that source down to zero (pre-amp volume on full).

You would not have to do that if the table was quality to begin with.

But hell - you are obviously very proud of your Linn and so you should be - just dont waste your time telling me Pro-ject is crap because, in simple terms, I and thousands of other users know better.

They know they got ripped off and decided to upgrade.

Should I now regale you with the stories of the audiophiles who have come and gone with their tales between their legs, of the oh-so confident Accoustic Solid TT salesman who now owns a modded RPM 4 of his own, of the friends who laughed at my table compared to their mighty Clearaudio's who went suddenly quite pensive.....maybe not - what is the point?

Because I'd like to talk to them personally and get thier version of the story. Not yours. i have heard this before. "My homebrew table that I built from crudely assembled parts based upon one of the poorest quality, least engineered turntables blows away mega-buck, scientifically engineered, highly lauded high quality tables. I am not sure wheather to applaud, or laugh.

Again, enjoy your table, but based on the tables I have auditioned in the past 5 years, I'd say you are far more optimistic that realistic. I'd bet a lot of those "dealers" would have a much different story.

[maxg]

One of them should be able to I suppose - he is an internet junkie from what I know.

Give me a few days - but will only one do? Are you going to have me running around after half a dozen thereafter? there is only so far I am prepared to go with this one as it doesnt matter one jot to me what you think you know - I am the one that gets to listen to my system each night and benefit from the experience (fortunately).

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One of them should be able to I suppose - he is an internet junkie from what I know.

Give me a few days - but will only one do? Are you going to have me running around after half a dozen thereafter?

You have the strong opinion. For such encounters I have witnessed, I can tell you right off the top of my head exactly what dealers they were, where, and who it was. That goes for every dealer I have known since 1986.


there is only so far I am prepared to go with this one as it doesnt matter one jot to me what you think you know - I am the one that gets to listen to my system each night and benefit from the experience (fortunately).

Like I said, enjoy it. But I remain totally dubious that it is in the big leagues, much less beats anything beyond a Rega p2. Especially considering your convenient memory lapse as to who and where your table "blew away" the clearaudio.

I am not going to tell your your table does not sound good. But to say it is equal or better to finely engineered gear... I doubt that.

Enjoy your unimpressive looking home DIY. I hope it does sound good. It doesn't look that way. Maybe it's a "sleeper"...or maybe not.

[maxg]

None here - I have fired off an email to one of the guys that was blown away (who owned the Accoustic Solid Machine / RB250 fully modified and the same Shelter 901 mated to the phono stage plug in board on the Accuphase E406 amp) - not the Clearaudio owner but I will try to raise him too if I get to see him over the weekend (he is not as big an internet fan as the first guy).

IF you dont like the look of my DIY TT you would hate the look of my DIY speakers too - but lets not go there - its just what I do to get the sound I want.

Fortunately my wife is less fussy.

[maxg]

Almost forgot:

Some reviews???

http://202.186.86.35/audio/printerfr...&sec=audiofile
(RPM 4)
http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2003/project_rpm9.shtml
(RPM 9)
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_print.asp?ID=2544
(RPM 6)

Let me know if you want more - needless to say none of them agree with your assessment.

[trouble]

You are right; an RPM cannot come close to any turntable coming from the high end class. The RPM 9 is 3.6 out of 5 on the scale. (Scale reported by the highest and most renowned reviewers in Europe) and that is not high end indeed. It is though hi-fi. Dare I say upper end hi-fi. Now, under normal circumstances I would agree with you on what you say about the project tables. I owned one myself, and with a pair of Quad 989's paired with an Accuphase with interconnects that cost more than your car and speaker cables that equate to more than your annual salary, trust me I know what hi-end means. I actually bought the RPM 4 as an entry level tt to be exchanged whenever I could afford to. And trust me, it was changed fast. It was noisy, and the precision of the Accuphase, the Quad's and the wires brought out the worst of any table. I had static and in general it was way too low class compared to what the rest of my system was up to par with.

During the annual ACA (audio club Athens) I held one of the largest if not the largest in Europe meeting at my home, I changed my RPM for an acoustic solid, placed a 901 Shelter, considered to be an incredible cartridge at any price, and with a very modified 250 Rega to carry it.

To see the table go to http://www.acoustic-solid.de/html/edition.html
If you do not know what a quad 989 is then go to www.quad.co.uk

if your interested in finding out what an Accuphase is then ask someone who really knows and if Synergic research doesn't ring a bell, search for it on any search engine and just pick the most expensive and you will find the ones I was using.

Mind you, I hate RPM people, in the sense that I hate anything that is cheap and I hate stingy people. I am always broke, and will always be, because of this uncanny persona I seem to carry with me, but we all have our drawbacks, God knows we all know yours!

I have hated the system that my friend has owned since the day he had bought his first AIWA 6 or so years back. The mother****er is stingy and he has enough cash to buy the darn distributor if he wanted to. We have had more than just a few fights on whether cables made a difference on a system, or whether an arm makes a difference or if an amp is worth the money and so on and so forth. His stinginess was amazing, I still can't get over it sometimes.

As I said, I hate stingy people, and people that claim that a F**king RPM 4 can outplay an acoustic solid worth 50 times the price of the plastic piece of manure he has.

During x-mas of 2003, my buddy went on a trip to somewhere. I stayed at his pad to enjoy the freedom of being with my ***** alone in a crib where I had enough room to be laid in 200 places and positions (sorry you had to find out this way dude!!), and while I was there I dared to turn on that **** looking wood, glued together amateurish cruel to nature turntable, and placed some of the junk that your friend enjoys so much, called classical.

Lets just say that not even my incredibly horny and great looking ***** could turn me on once the orchestra came into action and the drums hit my scala tympani so fine that my hypthothalamus churned at the idea of doing anything but listen to the ugly piece of **** which you so rightly called was playing.

I will not say more.

If you got the balls to put your money where your mouth is, then bring your table to Greece and if you find yours plays better, unless it is modified to the brink of war, then I will pay you the tickets and your expenses. To be sure, we will have to have 5 other critics, pros of course for the contest. If you lose, you lose some cash and 4 days out of your life, not to mention I will feed your tt to the dogs. If you win, you get a free holiday and you get to throw out my table to the same dogs. Fuc* it, you can even throw out the RPM 4, I am a poor bastar* but I can afford an RPM any day. I will even throw in my ***** on top of it all just in case the rest don't make you happy.

Now you have two choices, the first is to actually be a man and not a pu*sy and come over and lets deal with this argument, or secondly you use half a percent more of your damaged cerebral matter and don't judge other peoples mods unless you have the experience yourself to understand what and how things work.

You see, I totally agree with what your saying, its how your playing it that sucks. ( I wonder how long that will take you to fully comprehend?)

This offer, expires in 24 hours, you have that time to set the date, if you do not believe in my offer then I will pay for half the trip myself, from lets say London to Greece and you pay from whatever hick town you come from to London. In other words just in case you didnt't get that, I will pay your trip from London to Athens, Athens-London.

I will not be in town when we have the Olympiad, so you have to pick a date from March to end of May, or June tops.

In hope of seeing you cry when Naomi and Bogart eat your table up, I await your reply. Actually since I do not want to waste any more time on your stupid a*s, just tell our mutual friend to tell me, I will set up the tickets and send them to you first, so you have no excuse on how my end holds up.

Farting in your general direction

Dr.Tony Pothitos

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You are a total a$$hole also. You are less intelligent than a Turk.

I used to know how to say "eat shi7 and die" in Greek. Since I forgot, I'll say it in english.

Eat shi7 and die.

Now piss off and make me a gyro with cucumber sauce.

The Turks are smarter than you. And cleaner.

YOU have two choices: lick my A$$hole ( called "GREEKING") or eat shi7 and die.

My advice to you is lay off the ouzo, you are completly retarded when you are sober, so you shouldn't exacerbate that by drinking.

You should look this up, as you are obviously too stupid to understand any of it.

BTW: I will be at the olympics to laugh my ass off when the Greeks lose at every event as usual.... LMFAO!!!