Linn LP-12 worth it?

[E-Stat]

... look into a Lenco L-75, 78, 99,88, ... and give it a good plinth and a good arm, it'll blow the linn out of the water...

Perhaps. The L-75A I had in '72 wasn't that exceptional. The Technics SL-110/SME3009 that replaced it was significantly better.

rw

[basite]

Perhaps. The L-75A I had in '72 wasn't that exceptional. The Technics SL-110/SME3009 that replaced it was significantly better.

rw

that's why we mod them

take a look here for those interested:

Lenco heaven

(sorry at mods if posting links to other forums is prohibited, and if so, please remove link...)

[basite]

basite...can you post pictures of your Lenco? Im sort like a gear slut. I like audio porn. Just post pictures of all of whats below please if you dont mind?

Lenco L75 TT
* SME 3012 S2
* Rega RB-301
*Denon DL-103 in midas body
*Denon DL-304
*Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
*Lehmann audio black cube SE

I posted a pic already here somewhere, but I'll take some more photo's, in about a week or so, I'm expecting a new tonearm (Jelco SA-750D), and will be completing the new lenco build, hopefully

here's a prototype of the build I'm doing now,



final build will be a nicer finished one, and slightly heavier too...

[poppachubby]

Haven't got any further Bert?

[basite]

Haven't got any further Bert?

school, lack of time, ...

I'm starting on it again now, design will remain mostly the same, be it a bit heavier and thicker plinth, new tonearm, further small details,...

going to get wood today

[frenchmon]

I posted a pic already here somewhere, but I'll take some more photo's, in about a week or so, I'm expecting a new tonearm (Jelco SA-750D), and will be completing the new lenco build, hopefully

here's a prototype of the build I'm doing now,



final build will be a nicer finished one, and slightly heavier too...

Ouuuuuu niiiiccccee Cant wait to see the finished product. Please do post more pictures.

[E-Stat]

here's a prototype of the build I'm doing now....

Looks nice and decidedly different than a stock L-75. Where's the speed control lever? I think I spent all of about $125 for mine back then.

rw

[basite]

Looks nice and decidedly different than a stock L-75. Where's the speed control lever? I think I spent all of about $125 for mine back then.

rw

it does, there are not only major differences in the look of it alone, there have been some changes under the hood too.

My inspiration started with seeing a member on lencoheaven (scott, aka "RFgumby") supporting the motor from below, the original motor is hung from the top plate, being supported/damped by 6 springs (3 under, 3 above the motor).

scott's interpretation of this was supporting the motor from below, so the possible vibrations are further away from the bearing and platter, thus resulting in less noise.

I decided to take this design a step further, with not only supporting the motor from below, but also mounting it on it's separate platform/plinth, in this case, that platform are the 2 blue stones, bonded together with a dampening layer (sort of a CLD design, where you use a hard material and a soft, absorbing material, to create a "dead"/non resonant total.
the stone weighs 35 kilos, which helps balancing and vibration absorption too (mass dampening theory, also found in various hifi racks and stands etc (think: filling speaker stands with lead shot or sand))

the bearing is sandwiched between the plinth and the "new" top plate (temporarily, for this prototype: a recycled metal cover of an broken old amplifier...), adding to the stability

the idler speed change has been changed drastically too, the original lenco uses a lever to do this, but I could not insert this in my current design, so I had to take some more drastic measures, the speed is now "set" at 33 1/3 rpm, and to change it I had to take of both platters, and remove 2 screws, then move the small plate where the idler arm is mounted on, and then insert the screws again, kinda hard to do, so I now worked out a design using a threaded rod, where the idler arm is mounted on (the arm is isolated with a rubber and brass bushing, the original one, mounted on a small shaft, which was mounted on the speed change mechanism, I now mounted that shaft on a bolt, which is moving over the threaded rod. When you turn the rod, the idler arm moves, thus changing the speed.

as you possibly also have noticed, there are 2 platters, this was an idea from another lencoheaven member and friend. Using 2 stacked platters, improves stability (sort of a huge flywheel...), the first prototype only had one platter, and this worked very good too, but I had another one lying around, so I just went ahead and kept on modding

The top plinth is isolated with cork in this prototype, the final design will use vibrapods, I had them under my previous lenco project and they worked beautifully



About the looks: I was inspired by the somewhat legendary and extremely cool looking Micro Seiki DQX1000, and the new and pretty unknown Vyger Timor & baltic...


DO notice, this is a VERY heavily modded Lenco, the basics are there, I even kept the infinite speed change, although in a different form, but this is far from a stock lenco, both in form as in performance, it took the advantages of a good idler (rythm, pace, liveliness and full, bodied sound, very good dynamics and punchy & tight lows), and tried to diminish the drawbacks of an idler driven system: possible rumble (even though the lenco didn't have as big problems with this as other idler drives...), not as dark background as a good belt drive (some noise), etc. In the end, I think this project, extreme as it may be, can be considered a succes (for me)

also notice, there are much much less extreme versions of lenco modding, I just went ahead and let my creativity take over
as I mentioned in a previous post, for those interested, definitely check out www.Lencoheaven.net

it was both a great challenge, and I took my time drawing everything out, measuring things and building it. It was both fun and frustrating, but in the end it was definitely worth it

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[jrhymeammo]

I'm expecting a new tonearm (Jelco SA-750D)
.

Hey B,

I'm curious to why you decided to go with the 750-D, instead of the 750-LB.
9" or 12", the Jelco sounds like a great choice for cartridges you have.

[jrhymeammo]

Maybe a little overstated?

A little?
But I'm sure when things are setup properly, it would eat most of mass loaded TT alive.

[basite]

Hey B,

I'm curious to why you decided to go with the 750-D, instead of the 750-LB.
9" or 12", the Jelco sounds like a great choice for cartridges you have.

I needed the arm to use with the Denon DL-304, which has a slightly higher compliance than the 103, so the 12" arm would be too heavy...
but the 9" is then again heavy enough to use with a 103 cart, if I ever decided to swap


other than that, cost, the jelco 9" is costing me enough already, I also had to buy this as an "emergency buy", as the previous Rega RB-301 wiring decided to break, again. Rewiring isn't quite working out as I was hoping, so back in it's box it goes until I feel like rewiring it again...

I'm very curious at how it performs, it should arrive here in a couple of days , from what I can tell from photos and all, the jelco arm does have a better finish, and appears to be better made than the rega...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[jrhymeammo]

Ah, I see. It seems the 750-LB is about $250 USD higher than the 750-D in Europe.
Here is US, the cost difference is only $100 so I didn't even think about that.

Wouldn't the DL304 be better matched with the SME, and the DL103 be better match with the 750-D? It's my understanding that SME has lower mass than the Jelco.

Let us know how the Jelco sounds. I think you'll be the first one from AR.com to play with the Jelco arm, so we would love to hear how it performs. I, especially, would like to know how they perform with cartridges with med-high compliance.

Have Fun,

[basite]

Wouldn't the DL304 be better matched with the SME, and the DL103 be better match with the 750-D? It's my understanding that SME has lower mass than the Jelco.

Let us know how the Jelco sounds. I think you'll be the first one from AR.com to play with the Jelco arm, so we would love to hear how it performs. I, especially, would like to know how they perform with cartridges with med-high compliance.

Have Fun,

I'll definitely let you know, including all the photos and text describing it ,

I don't know the exact mass of the SME arm, but it's the 3012, which was fairly high mass

Keep them spinning bro,
Bert.

[02audionoob]

I've read the effective mass of the 3012 was 14 grams...which doesn't seem all that heavy to me when you consider that the SME headshell was pretty light.

[basite]

indeed, that comes as a surprise

the Jelco shouldn't weigh that much more, it should work fine with the 304...
304's compliance is 14 x 10-6 cm/dyne, which is pretty medium, it's not a high compliance cart at all, but not as low as the 103 too with 6 x 10-6 cm/dyne

keep them spinning,
Bert.

[jrhymeammo]

The Jelco is said to have the tonearm mass of 20g with supplied headshell, so I think it'll be a great match for your 103.
As for your 304, I think it deserves your 12" arm!!

DL-304
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...&search=search


DL-103
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...&search=search

[02audionoob]

I did some searching and found an SME chart for calculating resonant frequency based on compliance and a chart of effective mass for that family of tonearms. Given that this looks like the SME documents, it seems like it must include the standard headshell, which would make for a total of 14 grams for the 3012, rather than 14 plus a headshell. If that's the case, the difference between the SME and the Jelco would be significant.

One note about compliance...I think with Denon you might have to apply a multiple of 1.5 to 2.0 with their compliance numbers. I've read several times that the Japanese manufacturers are measuring their compliance at a higher frequency (100 Hz) than the western world (10 Hz). By the chart, though, raising the 304's compliance of 14 to 21 doesn't bump it out of the shaded area on the resonance chart.

[basite]

The Jelco is said to have the tonearm mass of 20g with supplied headshell, so I think it'll be a great match for your 103.
As for your 304, I think it deserves your 12" arm!!

DL-304
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...&search=search


DL-103
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...&search=search

looking at the charts, the 304 will actually work pretty good with the Jelco, I might change the original headshell for a lighter one though..;

one note about my 103: it's modded with a Midas body, so the original plastic body is removed and replaced by the midas anodized gold/aluminium body it's heavier now (by about 4-5 grammes. The SME is the only arm that I have that has a heavy enough VTF weight to handle it