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Thread: Initial Impression of Carbon Debut TT

  1. #1
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Initial Impression of Carbon Debut TT

    A friend of mine just bought a Pro-Ject Carbon Debut TT with an Ortofon 2M Cartrige from Music Direct for $400 with free shipping and no tax. He brought it over to my house for me to set up. We put it in my system and it is a very nice TT. It sounds at least as good as my Vintage Thorens TD-145 TT and probably a bit better.

    The build quality is excellent and it has a decent platter but the felt mat is cheap. The carbon arm looks great. Overall the TT seems much more robust than the Rega RP-1.

    The sound was limited by the 2M Red cartridge which is too bright sounding for my tastes and has too much congestion in the high frequencies. I had the 2M on my Thorens and it had the same issues. I am not a big fan of the 2m Red and I don't see what all the hub bub is about with this cartridge (although in all fairness to the 2M it was not broken in and we listened to it straight out of the box for about 1 hour). Other than that the sound had good air and transparency with good dynamics and detail but not to the level of my Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge, which I would have liked to mount on the Debut. Bass dug a little deeper with my Thoren's though.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Jack in Wilmington's Avatar
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    I was reading the write up on Music Direct and it's funny how they mention the carbon tone arm and attached to it is "a true high end" cartridge. How can they equate a $100 cartridge and high end in the same sentence. Be truthful and call it a nice "entry level" cartridge.
    blackraven likes this.
    2 Channel System
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    Goldring 1012GX (Cart.)
    Pro-ject SE II (Phono Box)
    Rotel RCD-1072 (CD Player)
    Bryston BDA-1 ( DAC )
    Sennheiser HD-600 (Headphones)
    Musical Fidelity Xcan V3 (Headphone Amp) _

    HT System
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    Usher S-520 (Surrounds)
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    Anthem MCA20 (Amp)
    Yamaha RX-A830 (Receiver)
    Panasonic TH-46PZ85U (Plasma TV)
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Slap a Blue 2M stylus on it and hear the difference between good and great. My Ortofon OM10 became so much more with the OM20 stylus. Of course the Ortofons like a little more capacitance so a phono preamp that can add some is a help.
    blackraven likes this.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cone, Benz MC Gold, Fanfare 3/PSU 1.
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  4. #4
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I would not mind trying a 2M Blue on my Pioneer TT which has a very warm sound. I tried my warm sounding Nagaoka MP-200 on the Pioneer and the sound was too warm but it is perfect for my Thorens.

    I told my friend to consider a Nagaoka MP-110, Grado Presitge Silver or Gold if he has the same problem in his rig. His budget is limited. Although, he may be ok. He is using a Marantz PM5004 integrated amp and it has a good on board phono preamp from the reivews.

    I hear you JM about swapping the stylus. I am thinking about doing that with my Nagaoka. I want to swap in the MP-500 stylus. I was thinking about upgrading the cartridge to the MP-300 or 500 but the price in these have almost doubled in the past 3-4 months.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  5. #5
    Forum Regular Jack in Wilmington's Avatar
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    I might save the great rating for the Cadenza Blue and not the 2M Blue or you might run out of adjectives as you describe Ortofon's as you move up the ladder. But everybody has a different rating system.
    2 Channel System
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 Mk II
    Pass Labs X150.5 (Amp)
    Cary SLP-03 (Preamp)
    Music Hall MMF 5.1 (TT)
    Goldring 1012GX (Cart.)
    Pro-ject SE II (Phono Box)
    Rotel RCD-1072 (CD Player)
    Bryston BDA-1 ( DAC )
    Sennheiser HD-600 (Headphones)
    Musical Fidelity Xcan V3 (Headphone Amp) _

    HT System
    Usher X-719 (Mains)
    Usher X-616 (Center)
    Usher S-520 (Surrounds)
    Rel T2 (Subwoofer)
    Anthem MCA20 (Amp)
    Yamaha RX-A830 (Receiver)
    Panasonic TH-46PZ85U (Plasma TV)
    Denon DBT-1713UD (BluRay/SACD)

  6. #6
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    I'm kicking around a cartridge upgrade. I found a great buy on a Cadenza Bronze, I was excited although there were still some unknowns as with going with anything new, THEN, the guy tells me Ortofon is backordered on Bronze with no real date for stock, something to do with material. I don't really want to spend the kind of money for full retail so I'm chewing on just going up to next Dyna or trying the Clearaudio Maestro.

    I was at an audio get together and a few of those guys had Thorens 124's. I learned the 111 is basically the same without..... something, maybe a speed. One of the guys is big into hitting estate auctions with audio gear.

  7. #7
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    i agree with jack that as you ascend the ortofon line you will be rewarded every step. there is a new mc line quintet that is quite food for cheap. i read a review in a Brit mag citing the quintet blue as being quite good for around $500.
    ...regards...tr

  8. #8
    3db
    3db is offline
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    I had a ProJect Xpression II and I noticed a huge improvement stepping up from the OM10 to the 2M Red. What I noticed about the 2M Red is that its less sensitive to record noise and didn't emphasize the vinyl flaws like the OM10. I lost the table in a flood and got its replacement, the Xpression III which comes standard with a 2M Red. That's been my experience.

    Blackraven, I'm not surprised to hear that you liked the Caron Debut. IHO, ProJect is often rated as a 2nd string TT by a lots of people on audio forums, yet they receive lots of accolades on every review I've read from professional reviews. ProJect makes great tables.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    My friend purchased the 2M Blue stylus and put it on the Red cartridge. He likes the improvement but was expecting more. I have yet to hear it.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

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