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  1. #1
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Goodnight Benz sleep tight!

    Tomorrow the Benz is being removed for a nap. I can no longer listen past a peak in the high frequencies. I do not blame the cartridge but the improper loading of the phono pre-amps that I have. Both are 100 ohms and the Benz needs 200 ohms. Until I can purchase a phono pre-amp with the proper settings I am going back to the Grado. This will also enable me to try the Onkyo A-9555's built in phono pre-amp in comparison to the Cambridge Audio and the Rotel.

    The Grado was sounding good with the Michell Technoweight mod. I had never heard a Grado sound so good until the new counterweight allowed it to track properly. I was rather shocked by the results and had never heard the Grado magic others talked about.

    Still looking for a good phono pre-amp and remember all the suggestions from before so I just need to be patient until final decision. Then the Benz will be remounted.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  2. #2
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    That's better than what I had thought..... I thought you snapped your cantilever. I'm just know finding out an importance of impedance matching of cart and phonopre.
    One question. Your Cartridge is rated @ 20 ohms. If you jump from 100 to 200 ohms, wouldnt that emphasize more on high frequency with recessed bass?

    Perhaps, our resident Dawg, E-Stati-Tat-Tat, can help us out on this one.

    JRA

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    That's better than what I had thought..... I thought you snapped your cantilever. I'm just know finding out an importance of impedance matching of cart and phonopre.
    One question. Your Cartridge is rated @ 20 ohms. If you jump from 100 to 200 ohms, wouldnt that emphasize more on high frequency with recessed bass?

    Perhaps, our resident Dawg, E-Stati-Tat-Tat, can help us out on this one.

    JRA



    On my spec sheet the internal impedance is listed as 20 ohms but the recommended loading is 200-47,000 ohms. I thought the loading is what I need to match with the phono preamp. I know it would be different if I were using a step up transformer.

    Oh and the only thing I snap is my fingers in Z formation and the occasional young man in the bum with a wet towel.
    Last edited by JohnMichael; 08-16-2008 at 07:13 PM.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  4. #4
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    First thought on reading the headline was bent canteliver. Not so. I found that every MC I tried has an optimum setting where it snaps into life and boogies. My own findings are that the more I download the more the HF are prominent. So I am pretty sure that JMs Benz will need the 200ohm at least. What is on your shortlist John, for a new Phonoamp?

    Peace

    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  5. #5
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Hey JM,

    I guess you were too busy being a butt Zorro in MN. Did you ever get a chance to visit the Needledoctor during your spare time? Or was it MusicDirect?

    I still dont completely understand load Impedance of carts and phono pre. I was not aware that it would be different for SUT as well.

    J

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Hey JM,

    I guess you were too busy being a butt Zorro in MN. Did you ever get a chance to visit the Needledoctor during your spare time? Or was it MusicDirect?

    I still dont completely understand load Impedance of carts and phono pre. I was not aware that it would be different for SUT as well.

    J


    No I was not able to make it to the Needle Doctor. Looking through the yellow pages I saw Van Alstine and Magnepan.

    I am listening to Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings "100 Days 100 Nights" through the Grado and the Onkyo built in MM phono. The Grado makes the sound a little funkier compared to the Benz.

    Butt Zorro not I. I was a perfect gentleman. I was embroiled in a bit of a scandal but I am innocent I tell ya.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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  7. #7
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I have been listening to the Grado/Onkyo combination since the switch this morning. One of the things I like about cd's is the music seemed more solid to my ears. Vinyl had more of a holographic sound, more soudstage and depth along with seperation betwen instruments. Very musical but not as fleshy. I am listening to a live cd of Cleo Laine and the applause sounds like applause and not rain on a roof. Music is more solid and real and even better than cd then I had thought. I am not sure if it is the Grado, the phono stage of the Onkyo or removing a length of interconnect from the equation.

    I just know I want my next phono pre-amp to give me the solid imaging I am enjoying now with the benefits of the Benz Gold.

    I would have to rate the built in phono stage better than the Rotel RQ 970BX and Cambridge Audio 640P for moving magnet cartridges. I chuckle at how good the A-9555 is and now that I have heard the phono input what an amp for $500.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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  8. #8
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Arthur Salvatore from High-EndAudio dot com seems to be a big believer in integrated phonostage. His site is always a good read. Have you had chance to pull out your BluePoint to see how Onkyo performs with HOMC? With money saved on additional phonostage, maybe you can get a really nice HOMC cart.

    If you like I'll let you borrow the DL-110 at my own risk. It has a stylusguard so I'm not all that worried about it.

    JRA

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    The Bluepoint is old and if I could inspect the stylus I might mount it. I think I bought it right after they changed to the 1/2 inch mounting. I also wonder about the suspension after all these years. You are also welcome to try the Benz Gold if you like.

    I do have a question about your step up transformer, where did you purchase it and is it available in different values? Art Dudley has been writing about step up transformers for Stereophile.

    Rickie Lee Jones is in my living room.

    Butt Zorro, I have used that many times today and it never fails to get a laugh. Of course many in central Ohio think it pertains to you. Whoops!
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
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    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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  10. #10
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    I'll let you hold on to that title, my friend. You get more hairy ass than I ever will.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I decided to try all the combinations of phono cartridges and phono pre-amps at my disposal. In the process I have learned a few things.

    The Grado Red is great in the bass and midrange. Listening to Terrence Trent D'arby I could hear the sound of his lips parting as he began to sing but the upper frequencies of the instruments were missing. Bass and vocals excellent. highs very subdued.

    Phono stage of the Onkyo A-9555 very similar in sound to the Rotel RQ 970BX. Neither very open in the high frequencies but good solid bass.

    Benz Gold was originally mounted using the included hardware. You know the type the round nuts that are hard to tighten. I remember that after trying to align the cartridge and tighten the screws the cartridge would move. After listening to other carts I wondedred if some of the peaks were from a loosely mounted cartridge.

    Since purchasing the Cambridge Audio 640P phono pre-amp I had always used it with the subsonic filter. Realizing that the other two do not have the subsonic filter and I did not have excess woofer movement from mismatched cartridge, tonearm I decided to listen without the sub filter. The pre-amp was much more balanced without the filter in use. The peakiness I heard might have had something to do with the filter in use.

    Currently the Benz is back in place and the CA 640P is in use to amplify the Benz's output. The sound is much improved with the cartridge rigidly mounted with new hardware and the CA 640P not using the subsonic filter. This combo is a detailed balanced combo that will serve until a new phono pre-amp is purchased. The Benz is the best cartridge of the group and the CA 640P is the better of the available pre-amps.

    "I know you send your regards
    to the Queen of the Night"

    Sing it Maggie Bell
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
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    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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  12. #12
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    How is it singing now, JM.

    I can only imagine that adding another filter will only degrade sound. I guess some will say the same about my SUT. I'm glad you are finding better result with your current setup. Can you believe the price increase in Benz Micro?

    Have Fun,
    JRA

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    I am happier with the sound of the combo not using the subsonic filter. Singing much more balanced and smoothly. I still can not get over the differences. If anyone has the CA 640P forget the subsonic filter.

    Your step up transformers were the way to go when moving coils first became popular. Most equipment had built in MM phono stages and the SUT was needed to raise the output. Art Dudley has been writing glowingly about SUT's.

    If I buy a Benz again I am glad I have a Benz for a trade-in. Maybe after January the dollar will regain some strength in the world and they will be more affordable.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

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