Tube integrated around $3000..

I would like to start searching for a different tube integrated which I wanna acquire arounde summer. I was hoping that you guys can help me expand my options..

He is what I'm looking for.

-Around $3000 new, possibly slightly used.
-35/70 watts or more. (Triode/UL)
-no phono stage needed
-Easy biasing so doesnt have to have aut-bias feature but would be nice
-pre-out would be nice, but I can live without it.
-not very interested in hybrid int/amp


Here is the small list I have:

Jolida-JD1000R
Cayin A100T
Cary SLi-80
Almarro A50125A
VTL IT-85

$3000 is a crap load of money for me, but I'm starting to think I need to up my budget to expand my option. There are alot of tube int/amp around $2000, but I need more than 30 watts for my future speakers as well.

Please help cuz you guys know best.

JRA

Hey Hiro,

nice ones you've got there,
maybe a used unison research, don't know prices though,
or what about primaluna? they make nice models, not the biggest ones, but nice ones...


and what's up with the new speakers?
any idea of which ones they will be??

and how's the relocation (?) coming along??

Greetings,
and keep them spinning,
Bert.

You need to add the Manley Stingray to your list.

You might take a look at Shanling, if they sound as good as they look.....

The VTL would be a strong contender. I don't think The Shrimp has a remote. I believe Rogue Audio also has a higher power integrated.

Audio Research has a 55 wpc integrated, I think it was VT-55. I heard this amp with B&W and with Martin Logan. I didn't care for it personally.

You could probably find a used Conrad Johnson MV60 or 60se power amp and one of their preamps used for $3k. The MV60 is EL34's, the SE is 6550's. Of course, the CJ would be my preference.

Hey Yo J-Murda,

Good to see you around friend. I hope the move went smoothly.

I have heard the Cary on a number of speakers (B&W,MBL, and Danes) and it does well.

I've read good stuff about Almarro. Maybe you should play guinea pig for the rest of us and take the plunge. It would be interesting to hear the reports either way.

Probably an imortant factor in any recommendation would be knowing what these "future speakers" are that you have in mind.

Peace


NP: The Rentals~Big Daddy C

Apart from guitar amps (for which I'll only settle for 100% tubes), my experience with tubes is in hybrid integrated amps - tube pre, SS power.

Given any thought to that? I think it's a great combination, myself.

Not meaning to hijack but some hi fi trivia that Mr. Anderson brings to mind, mentioning guitar tube amps. When I got into looking.for tube equipment I ran across a review of an home audio tube amp Mesa Boogie put out. The review immediately got my interest in the amp, only to find that they have been discontinued for some years. This was a major let down, aside from a raving good review, the reviewer said, "this amp is like a Krell, if Krell built tube amps".

Thanks Gents,

I'm not concerned about listening to gears before buying them. In my current system, I've only listened to the Pro-Ject deck.. everything else has been acquired without auditioning'em. Seems like I can always integrate new gears into my system with great success. I just gotta play around a bit, and I dont mind doing that at all.

I dont have any specific speakers in mind at this momement but I just dont want to be restricted to a pair with 91db sens or more. For that I'm not so sure about Manly or PrimaLu. I've always wanted them, but if I was to drive a pair of 3 way floorstanders, I dont want them to choke too much. So they are starting to go out of my list, but i will need to consider quality of their wattage.

I've thought about going tube pre with SS/ or valve amps, but it looks too costly. I will need to go AUDITION SS amps, but they will have to impress me quite a bit.

I'm thinking I need more than 60 watts of tube power because I'm done with powered subs for a while. I want to look for a pair of 3-way floorstanders in 8ish ohm going down to at least high 30hz +/- 3db. BUT, I wouldnt mind toying around with Maggie MMG in a future as a 2nd pair.

I was eyeing in on a pair of Tyler Linbrook Signature System, but dont think they'll do. The Linbrook System 2 just might be okay with 70watts or more, but my list will change hourly so who knows. Right now, I just wanna get a better tube int/amp to play my Triangle, but they will be replaced as soon as my speaker budget arrives.

Thank you guys so much for all the replies. This will not happen for a while, but kinda wanted to get a head start on my research. And for relocation, I will be getting on I-70 2morrow morning. I shipped off 700lb+ or music, and gears. Just gotta drive 18 hours, not a problem.

peace,

btw, Almarro looks really tempting

I dont know exactly how big my living room is going to be so it will be accommodated accrodingly.

remote control will be nice, but I'm not too picky on that option.

Thanks again,

Rogue Audio Temptest II ($2695) 90 watts fits well for my needs. But not too sure about 90watts with four KT88s might be pushing it hard

and anyone here has experience with some cheap Pathos?

Jolida is very good.

Cary is famous for the quality of their watts, but not quantity.

The Cayin always looked interesting to me, but I've never heard anything about them.

AudioValve? The Assistant comes in at just your price, and I always loved my RKV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrhymeammo

I would like to start searching for a different tube integrated which I wanna acquire arounde summer. I was hoping that you guys can help me expand my options..
...
Please help cuz you guys know best.

JRA

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Sooner or later you will miss the flexibility of separate preamp and power amp. I tend to agree with Mike A. that a tube pre and S/S power amp is the best combo.

It's MVHO that tubes work by blanketing the higher order harmonic distortion of S/S with more pleasant, lower order distortion. For this reason it is often sufficient to put tubes in just one spot in the reproduction chain and get most of the effect. My sophomoric understanding electronic amplification suggest putting tubes at the voltage gain stage, where tubes inherently work best, is the best place for them.

Any thoughts from others on this subject???

Hi Hiro,

Lot's of good amps mentioned. The Pathos classic one is a hybrid and the baby of the pathos range. Very fine amp.
Cary integrated are very very good. I used one for a while and it was glorious. Prima Luna is also nice and affordable. The Manley Labs Stingray needs to go on your list. Also the Mastersound Due Vente is a gem.
My money would go on a Unison Research S6. Very sweet amp with some slam.
Have fun and good luck with the relocation.

Keep'm spinning

Bernd:21:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Feanor

Sooner or later you will miss the flexibility of separate preamp and power amp. I tend to agree with Mike A. that a tube pre and S/S power amp is the best combo.

It's MVHO that tubes work by blanketing the higher order harmonic distortion of S/S with more pleasant, lower order distortion. For this reason it is often sufficient to put tubes in just one spot in the reproduction chain and get most of the effect. My sophomoric understanding electronic amplification suggest putting tubes at the voltage gain stage, where tubes inherently work best, is the best place for them.

Any thoughts from others on this subject???

---

I agree and disagree. I agree in that there are times that I would like to incorporate a sub into my setup, and I can't (well, I could, but it would be a kludge), but with full-range speakers, I definitely recommend and integrated. A good, well-designed integrated, not just any integrated. Certainly not this one.

St. Louis was beautiful. It really doesnt look to bad. Why all the bad rep? Oh well.
Indianapolis looked cool, but had to get on I-74 before I reached the downtown area. So I just stuck my fist out and cursed at bobsticks for fun.... 18 hours of driving wasnt too bad at all, but I'm happy to be here in Cinci.

Thank you so much guys, always appreciate all the help. MikeA and Feanor has given me more to think about. Going separate would give me more options for sure. It's just that I dont see myself using a sub anymore. I will be living in a condo/apartment for a while, so getting a pair of 3 way seems like the way to go. Of course if I do that, I probably would want more than 50 watts of power. Anyone here tried using SS pre with valve amps? Sounds crazy but who knows.... dont think I'll do it though.

Since my phono pre is made by VTL, using a SS amp shouldnt be too bad. But I'm not getting rid of my Marantz for some tube SACD/CDP.

I would need to hear how my current setup would sound in my new place first, then decide what I want/need to do. But looks like I got more products I need to research.

Thanks again,

That was you?..

Too bad you didn't have time to stop here in StL.

Don't discount tube CD sources, Audio Note has a single box unit around $2.5k, it's supposed to have the same DAC as I have. If that's so, it's incredibly good, and since the DAC sold for $1.5k and their transports are usually higher than that, the unit is a pretty good deal to boot.

Cayin makes a big 95 wpc tube integrated but it doesn't have an easy way to bias. 50 watts of tube power is pretty potent if your speakers aren't so inefficient. My MV60 was 50 wpc and it pushed my Dyn's pretty well. I could get a decent listening level but it wasn't going to rock the house. I think my Dyn's are rated at 84dB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Too bad you didn't have time to stop here in StL.

Don't discount tube CD sources, Audio Note has a single box unit around $2.5k, it's supposed to have the same DAC as I have. If that's so, it's incredibly good, and since the DAC sold for $1.5k and their transports are usually higher than that, the unit is a pretty good deal to boot.

Cayin makes a big 95 wpc tube integrated but it doesn't have an easy way to bias. 50 watts of tube power is pretty potent if your speakers aren't so inefficient. My MV60 was 50 wpc and it pushed my Dyn's pretty well. I could get a decent listening level but it wasn't going to rock the house. I think my Dyn's are rated at 84dB.

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Thanks for more info.

Since I will be struggling HARD to get a $3k integrated, I dont see myself getting a tube source player for 5+ years. But who knows, maybe I'll get hit by a car and cashin a mil':idea:

my current KT88(4) based tube integrated* is rated at 40 watts, and it sounded about right for my 91dB Triangles. I think I need to hear what 40watts can put out from better built gears.

Looked at the floor plan of my new apartment and it is tiny. 12"x15" of living space and the way it is, looks like I'm gonna have to place my gears on the short wall, or get much longer speaker wires or IC.:( But I'm not considering any SET amps since I plan to move after 12 months.

Hey Bernd, which Cary int/amp did you play with?

Also, does anyone know if Cayin A-100T uses EL-34 or KT88? The picture I saw had EL-34. I think the one based on EL-34s are rated at 35/70 watts and 50/100 for 6550s.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...=36563&section=
this kt88 based unit is rated at 36/70

http://www.vasaudio.com/cayin.htm

but according to the official site, it is said to put out 50/100 with KT88s


it is just a glitch?

The guy you want to talk with at Acousticsounds is Chad.

Hey Dusty, how do you like the sound of EL84s? If I use all the 40 watts I got in my new apartment, I would go deaf... 20watts of triode would be more than I'll need. SET would work as well, but if I move I need to consider for my future apartment as well. If you are driving your Dynaudio w/ it then, I should be fine with Linbrook System2 I can't stop eyeing. I guess Keentuhky aint so bad after all.

Hey, if you get that Stingray, be sure to give us a review. From what I've read that seems to be a nice piece.

Actually, the Stingray is a bad match for my Dynaudios. I currently have the Stingray driving a vintage pair of Pioneer HPM-200's. Don't have an amp for the Dynaudios -- might be the refurbed Pioneer SX5590 when I get it back, might be something else, I don't know. The Dynaudios just need hundreds of watts of power.

I love EL84's -- several of my favourite amps have EL84's -- to me, they straddle that delicate balance between accuracy and euphony perfectly.

[QUOTE=jrhymeammo]Hey Bernd, which Cary int/amp did you play with?

QUOTE]

Hi Hiro,

I had the CAD 300 SEI with Sophia 300 tubes. Superb sound and great service from the guys at Cary. Listening to the amp one would never have thought that it had "only" 15 Watts.
I also had for a while a Manley Labs "The Pre" driving some Audio Analogue Donizetti monoblocks. That was also very good. Nice synergy on that combo.

How are you getting on in the new environment?

Peace

Bernd:16:

Dusty,I didn't realize you had Dyn's,which ones? What amps have EL84's, are they a triode tube? The Dyn's would like a nice 6550.

I have a pair of Special 25's. They did best with a Musical Fidelity A300CR (they absolutely sung with it, but I didn't have an adequate preamp). Now I'm regretting getting rid of that amp, will probably get that or something similar in the future. Considering Bel Canto Evo 2, other MF gear...don't know...you think they'd do well with my Houston GSP-02? They really need a lot of reserve power...

Sweet speakers. I can hook you up with about 250x2 watts of Krell. I have a medium room with a large open door in the rear, it took 100 watts of tube power to get my t2.5''s off the ground to my liking.

Where Krell excels, powerwise, other than it's drive and brute force, is it's response time. There have been symphony crashes, with the t2.5's, that have been just startling. This is one of the benefits I forfeited when going with tubes.

Dusty,

If you decide to sell your Manley in the next 6 months or so, send me a PM just incase. Which version do you have?

Is your Stingray the newer version with sub out and tape loop? I would like to hear one. It would be interesting to hear the passive pre and EL84's.

Actually, mine is this one.

And I don't mean like that one, I mean it actually is the one in the picture, same serial number and everything. If I sell it, it goes up on eBay, I suspect that that is a selling point.

No tape loops, no sub out, no nothing, just plain integrated-ish amplification.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk

Actually, mine is this one.

And I don't mean like that one, I mean it actually is the one in the picture, same serial number and everything. If I sell it, it goes up on eBay, I suspect that that is a selling point.

No tape loops, no sub out, no nothing, just plain integrated-ish amplification.

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... it's call the "Stingray". Nice device no doubt but I guess I'm "square"; I prefer the ARC look
... Audio Reserach VT100

I read that the new Stingray has sub out, tape loop and a couple other features. Older models can have those added if one decided they needed tham and paid the fee.

I suppose there is a good story behind how you got your hands on that exact unit?

No, not really -- I bought it from one of the many online retailers who has a used stock. I don't remember the exact name, but can look it up the next time I go to my storage unit -- it's still on the box. They must have had some sort of connection with the reviewer or with Manley.

And yes, the subouts were an option on my model, if I bought it new, but I bought mine used (as a demo). I just don't need them (well...arguable). If I'm going to use a sub, I prefer it to go between the pre and the power on separates, otherwise it's impossible to integrate. I prefer the extra input, anyway.

Feanor -- yeah, it has an unusual look, but it's quite eye-catching to laypeople. They drool when I tell them that that is actual 24K gold plating.

I love it alot more than the one in blue. That thing looks fu-king sweet. Blueish purple one is nice, but looks too industrial for me. I'm sure it sounds good, but why not look better playing music. If the best sounding gears are made to look like huge a giant dildo, I would never buy it. Guess I'll never be an audiophile. Anyways......
Looks like saving up for the new amp is gonna be alot harder than I anticipated. Nothing wrong with buying it used.

JRA

I don't think it's blue-ish purple in person -- I think it's just grey and black...unless you're talking about an entirely different Manley component, like the Steelhead -- I think that one actually has a blue-ish tint to it.

Subject to change my answer upon being shown otherwise in person...

maybe you won't buy used, but surfing audiogon, I saw this...

it could be interesting for you...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ube&1176384811


Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Thanks Bastie, that is basically where I live. Tube-Int-Agon.

Going used would be fine for me. There are so many Tempest2 by Rogue Audio, it makes me wonder.

Going used makes more sense, since I just might be able to afford the SLI-80 and new speakers. Will see though.

Would love to get a Stingray, but after seeing the one Dusty has, dont want the "blueish" version. I need to treat my room before anything. Just cant decide which ugly color to go with.

You want to talk about strange looking gear and color, you should see some of the Blue Circle stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

You want to talk about strange looking gear and color, you should see some of the Blue Circle stuff.

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Their stuff looks DIY to me. Underwrought you might say; the antithesis of McIntosh for example. Some people say it sounds good, though.
...

I stand corrected, apparently it is purple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk

I stand corrected, apparently it is purple.

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Talk about gaudy! I wonder what emorphien thinks of it?!?